Washington State AGO Investigation into the Mogul

[jdemmer]

***beyond the 30 day trial period??

[canospinach]

Originally Posted by jbonilla

You need to learn the difference between research and an interview. There is no "in essence" about it. I can do all the research I want on President Bush, but I wouldn't go around telling people that I "in essence" interviewed him. The very use of "inter" in interview implies between, which didn't occur in this case. Better luck next time..

Lets cut to the chase here....

Regardless of how you spin the semantics, your intention was crystal clear. You do not need to deny it, behaviour shows core intentions/beliefs. You jumped to conclusions, made assumptions and got called on it. I am starting to see your personal pride issues. Stick to the formal subject at hand and stop trying to attack me personally simply because your argument is weak.

Originally Posted by jbonilla

Wow, sounds like a great idea. Pony up hundreds of dollars for a phone that was promised to be able to perform certain functions, and when it doesn't deliver, leave or get canceled by the company that promised them and pay an ETF, which you previously mentioned the company was perfectly justified in doing.

You seem to forget, you agreed to the ETF. Personally my core set of values includes keeping my end of an agreement as well as my word.

Service/Handset performance guarantees have not been promised by the carrier.

Originally Posted by jbonilla

Switching handsets is an option, but it's not like there is a comparable phone to what they have. The Touch has no Wi-Fi or keyboard, and that may be a deal breaker for some. And even if they were agreeable to switching, from reading the many threads on here, it's not like Sprint is just handing out Touches in exchange.

Work with the company constructively to fix the problem? Pray tell how do you do that? Maybe if Sprint actually goes through with the ROM beta program these guys can do that. Heck, Sprint might even release a ROM construction kit for all of us to use to fix the problem on our own! These guys and many others have obviously reported the issues to Sprint -- and up to this point, they haven't been fixed..

As you know there is an escalation process for legitimate issues. Just because you have not seen a viable fix released into the wild does not in any way communicate that one is not in development. Love your assumptions.

Originally Posted by jbonilla

So what are you left with? Stick with the phone and apply pressure to the company to deliver on its promises. Maybe you are one to quickly back down and give up, but these guys apparently are not. What's it to you if they want to pursue legal action to help fix their problems? If you don't like it, why don't you ignore the thread and let them discuss it amongst themselves. Maybe you should take your own advice and just leave a thread since nothing you're going to say is going to convince them that this action will be useless. How ironic that you advise them to just cut their losses and leave yet you continue posting in this thread that most likely will not change anyone's opinions.

I will once again pose my original question which i have asked several times, dont continue to ignore it and simply end all this by addressing it:



What exactly was promised, is different from any other handset, and was not delivered?

Show me EXACTLY, pics, documentation etc.




Finally, I am allowed my opinion on this forum just as you are. It is outside my control that OP or other posters were not prepared for thorough discussion. Clearly all you want is agreement in which case you should post your feedback on a private forum you control as oppose to a public one. I am not here to change "anyones opinion" rather to express another point of view which deserves its place as well. For you to suggest otherwise is once again, one of your excellent quality statements deserving of feedback.


See the question up above? its still there waiting for you.

[canospinach]

Originally Posted by jdemmer

Would sprint refund the phone purchase price? And not charge ETF's if applicable?....beyond the 30 day trial period??

Thank you for asking a great question.

Absolutely, however its very rare, only for the most deserving customers in an extreme circumstance and when a proper protocol is followed.

Taking an aggressive approach threatening legal action would not be considered a "proper protocol".

Not to mention you bring up a great point that new subscribers have 30 days to cancel service with minimal cost if any.

I guess if it were me, when i got home, heck even a week later when i FINALLY realized my expectations were not being met i would take the unit back.

Clearly none of the disputed features were deal killers/have to have it to do your job kind of features. If so users have nobody to "blame" but themselves for buying something that knowingly did not perform, regardless of future upgrades.

[jbonilla]

Originally Posted by canospinach

Lets cut to the chase here....

Regardless of how you spin the semantics, your intention was crystal clear. You do not need to deny it, behaviour shows core intentions/beliefs. You jumped to conclusions, made assumptions and got called on it. I am starting to see your personal pride issues. Stick to the formal subject at hand and stop trying to attack me personally simply because your argument is weak.

It would appear you would know a thing or two about weak arguments. I already admitted that you know more about yourself than I do (congratulations) and had no desire to interview you, and you said that I had "in essence" interviewed you because I read another one of your posts. Who is the one trying to spin semantics?

Originally Posted by canospinach

You seem to forget, you agreed to the ETF. Personally my core set of values includes keeping my end of an agreement as well as my word.

Service/Handset performance guarantees have not been promised by the carrier.

Sounds great. We have to pay an ETF if we leave early because a phone doesn't do what it's supposed to, and Sprint isn't required to deliver a phone that does what it promises to do. What a great deal. I'm sorry that my core set of values includes wanting the carrier to provide a phone that I purchased to work properly. What a horrible person I am.

Originally Posted by canospinach

As you know there is an escalation process for legitimate issues. Just because you have not seen a viable fix released into the wild does not in any way communicate that one is not in development. Love your assumptions.

I will once again pose my original question which i have asked several times, dont continue to ignore it and simply end all this by addressing it:

What exactly was promised, is different from any other handset, and was not delivered?

Show me EXACTLY, pics, documentation etc.

And you're assuming that these guys haven't done all of those things. So what would you rather have them do? Sit on their hands and wait for the fixes, and if it doesn't come, then what? There's nothing wrong with pursuing more than one option to get a resolution.

As for what the exact issues are, as I mentioned earlier, I don't have a Mogul, so I don't have firsthand experience with the problems but I do know what I've read in this and many other threads. As a Sprint subscriber who is due for a new phone soon though, I applaud and defend their right to pursue this action to resolve their problems -- as opposed to just telling them to give it up, and either be happy with the defective phone or pay the ETF and leave Sprint.

I'm sure there is a fix in the process -- hopefully with the next ROM release. But does that mean they should just drop everything and assume it'll resolve their problems? I wouldn't if I were them.

You keep saying that there is a better, more constructive way to pursue this, yet when I asked you to provide the op with details so he could follow up on it, your solution was switch phones or to cancel the service (see the last paragraph of post 46). Show them how they can be part of the solution rather than resorting to litigation.

Originally Posted by canospinach

Finally, I am allowed my opinion on this forum just as you are. It is outside my control that OP or other posters were not prepared for thorough discussion. Clearly all you want is agreement in which case you should post your feedback on a private forum you control as oppose to a public one. I am not here to change "anyones opinion" rather to express another point of view which deserves its place as well. For you to suggest otherwise is once again, one of your excellent quality statements deserving of feedback.

See the question up above? its still there waiting for you.

Never said you weren't allowed to provide your opinion. I provided you with an option, much like you presented the op with the option to cancel his service. You mentioned earlier that a viable option to having problems with your phone is to leave the carrier. I mentioned that a viable option when people aren't "prepared" for your point of view is to no longer argue with them and ignore the thread. I find it very ironic that in one case you advocate cutting your losses and saving yourself further grief and yet in the other you aren't willing to do the same thing. That's all. Post all you want. Gotta love that core set of values...

[canospinach]

So lets be clear...

i will once again pose my original question which i have asked several times, dont continue to ignore it and simply end all this by addressing it:



What exactly was promised, is different from any other handset, and was not delivered?

Show me EXACTLY, pics, documentation etc.

Why do you not simply answer the question?

Originally Posted by jbonilla

It would appear you would know a thing or two about weak arguments. I already admitted that you know more about yourself than I do (congratulations) and had no desire to interview you, and you said that I had "in essence" interviewed you because I read another one of your posts. Who is the one trying to spin semantics?



Sounds great. We have to pay an ETF if we leave early because a phone doesn't do what it's supposed to, and Sprint isn't required to deliver a phone that does what it promises to do. What a great deal. I'm sorry that my core set of values includes wanting the carrier to provide a phone that I purchased to work properly. What a horrible person I am.



And you're assuming that these guys haven't done all of those things. So what would you rather have them do? Sit on their hands and wait for the fixes, and if it doesn't come, then what? There's nothing wrong with pursuing more than one option to get a resolution.

As for what the exact issues are, as I mentioned earlier, I don't have a Mogul, so I don't have firsthand experience with the problems but I do know what I've read in this and many other threads. As a Sprint subscriber who is due for a new phone soon though, I applaud and defend their right to pursue this action to resolve their problems -- as opposed to just telling them to give it up, and either be happy with the defective phone or pay the ETF and leave Sprint.

I'm sure there is a fix in the process -- hopefully with the next ROM release. But does that mean they should just drop everything and assume it'll resolve their problems? I wouldn't if I were them.

You keep saying that there is a better, more constructive way to pursue this, yet when I asked you to provide the op with details so he could follow up on it, your solution was switch phones or to cancel the service (see the last paragraph of post 46). Show them how they can be part of the solution rather than resorting to litigation.



Never said you weren't allowed to provide your opinion. I provided you with an option, much like you presented the op with the option to cancel his service. You mentioned earlier that a viable option to having problems with your phone is to leave the carrier. I mentioned that a viable option when people aren't "prepared" for your point of view is to no longer argue with them and ignore the thread. I find it very ironic that in one case you advocate cutting your losses and saving yourself further grief and yet in the other you aren't willing to do the same thing. That's all. Post all you want. Gotta love that core set of values...

Thank you for your permission.

Now to get back to the subject at hand.

See the question at the top? i even wrote it in english for you

[alabij]

Originally Posted by gtx_aspec

Hell, if I can live with this phone, being the Chief Executive Officer of a company, who uses this thing non stop, anyone can. We aren't called early adopters for nothin' you know.


-
gtx
live free, and live the dream that dares to be dreamed.

I wish people would take a minuite or two to preview their posts before posting. Nobody using the Mogul is an early adopter, PPCPE's have been out since 2000. But then again you should know that. Furthermore, the company that manufactured the device admitted the problem. read HTC's website.

Someone must be lying, either HTC is lying about the Bluetooth problem and device performance issues or you are. Hmmm.....

[Stevenewjersey]

I just picked up my Mogul. Aside from it missing the latest rev edvo and the gps it works fully as advertised. I did the reading and knew going in that the Mogul is not a device for the average user. It is a device that is highly tweakable. The Touch is more for the "easy out of the box" user. Windows phones are all like this. This coming month brings an amazing rom update. Along with Sprint being the only wireless provider that can realy claim broadband quality service without the insane data charges AND true free use of my Mogul with my plan I cant see a downfall. The phone runs great, and with the latest ROM its stability is flawless so far.

[pflatlyne]

Originally Posted by Stevenewjersey

I just picked up my Mogul. Aside from it missing the latest rev edvo and the gps it works fully as advertised. I did the reading and knew going in that the Mogul is not a device for the average user. It is a device that is highly tweakable. The Touch is more for the "easy out of the box" user. Windows phones are all like this. This coming month brings an amazing rom update. Along with Sprint being the only wireless provider that can realy claim broadband quality service without the insane data charges AND true free use of my Mogul with my plan I cant see a downfall. The phone runs great, and with the latest ROM its stability is flawless so far.

You are fortunate. Your usage pattern does not stumble across the bugs. Unfortunatly mine does. I had to disable bluetooth,which I dont really like,but I can at least live with. Still,I paid for a phone with bluetooth. In sprints defense,they fixed that,somewhat. I understand that some people have stability issues. I personally do not. What I have is overheating issues on long phone calls when on the charger or when sharing the internet connection. If I true to use WiFi and the phone,its really bad,but even with a shared connection over USB it happens unless I take the back off the phone and open the keyboard. This may well be the cause of the lock ups as well. At first,I didnt really realize the reason it would stop charging (which is my main sympton of the overheating). I suspect that many people may be overheating and locking up,and not be making the connction to the heat.

[Goddbody]

Core Values related to business and everyday life? I was raised to believe that if a Man's word wasn't backed up by his life, then his word didn't mean sh%t. To those who continue to bash those of us that have chosen to excercise our rights as consumers, pleas just STFU. To those who have experienced issues with this piece of unadulterated piece of BS called the Mogule, I applaud your efforts for seeking your own personal resolve on this matter. I have read nearly every response in this thread and it is painfully obvious that many of you are acustomed to being screwed up the arse with a cattle prog, only responding with a simple "It's not that bad" remark. Go figure.

[canospinach]

So lets be clear...

An intention to sue is an extreme act which certainly is not warranted.

It is a pointless action as nobody has been able to substantiate Ebmorgans dramatic claims that the phone is not "As Advertised" or that it is indeed "Broken" as its been put.

Litigation supporters are choosing to attack challengers as oppose to intelligently debating the point (IF it had merit, it would be easier for you all). I dont consider "Pleas just STFU" a civil, decent or intelligently debated response.

You are all welcome to your perspectives, I have said many times i appreciate the "desire to effect change", the method however is horribly wrong.

Any intention of a lawsuit in this situation is very clearly poor judgement, especially when it is without merit as this is.

Obviously you dont need to take my word for it, watch and see how effective this action is, see exactly how far it goes and the end result. All the while be consciously thinking about the resources, time and effort being wasted.



i will once again pose my original question which i have asked several times, simply end all this by addressing it:

What exactly was promised, is different from any other handset, and was not delivered?

Show me EXACTLY, pics, documentation etc.

Lets see how many responses we have which are civil, decent and intelligent.