Prefer User Customization or Tweaked ROM

[jakdillard]

Originally Posted by boggsie

Can you or would you mind elaborating on the issue that you reference in your last sentence?

I may be mistaken, but it appears to me that the issue may be related to taking a ROM (*.nbh) file, using it as a donor, decomposing it and using the components as foundation for other work.

If that is the issue, then how can or how are people supposed to reconcile this issue, with the fact that there is a sticky in the upgrades forum describing exactly how to do this very thing?

How to for Developing http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=20550

First off the tutorial is to teach people how to port an os or sys folder to a rom ie taking a kaiser sys folder and porting it to a vogue oem rom not taking OMJ and removing pimbackup and whatever and building the same rom. For that tutorial I should have mentioned that you need stock roms but I did not think that anyone would be simple and use a well put together custom as a "foundation" for another custom ?

[boggsie]

Isn't getting a donor rom, decomposing into a bare kitchen and then adding and removing spices, etc. to satisfy a particular taste, part of the justification behind publishing the Vogue_Kitchen_Tools.rar file on the ftp site?

I might happen to like the main course (OS CE version) but I don't like asparagus (TouchFlo), brussel sprouts (BioTouch) and carrots (Remote Desktop), so I am going to take them out in favor of corn (User Customization) and green beans (Voice Command) [for example].

Please continue the discussion, so that I might understand the issue that you referenced a couple of posts up.

While I am here, I expect that I can learn about more than PPCs.

Thank you, jakdillard.

Best regards,
-boggsie

[CozBoogie]

Everyone needs to take a deep breath (inhale......hold it....and exhale). Now then, everyone needs to relax and step away from this thread for a few hours. Get a snack and your favorite beverage and chill out. We're all family here and we need to treat everyone with respect, etc.

Thanks for your understanding.

late,
Coz

[rstoyguy]

Originally Posted by boggsie

I am curious, though - what, or rather how many things are, or were you adding via User Customization, which caused the process to run for 30 minutes?

The biggest offenders are from Spb. Time, pocketplus, weather, phonesuite. Others are pdanetsetup, memaid, screencapture, myregistrycab, mysoundscab, rar, totalcommander, phmregedit, redkybdskin, softkeyapplet, pockettunes, keepass, and "exec:\windows\cutsk.exe \mydocuments\mars.tsk" OMJ's is a nice base for all my junk I add.

On a side note, I loaded dcd's last night which is pretty nice. What I like about his is there is no htc homescreen and his phone plugin to toggle bluetooth on/off. There is a difference of free storage between dcd's and omj's, 143mb vs ca. 119mb after my customizations. But I have no issues with either. I'll probably flash omj's v8 base tonight. After tweakin it to me a bit.

[boggsie]

Originally Posted by rstoyguy

The biggest offenders are from Spb. Time, pocketplus, weather, phonesuite. Others are pdanetsetup, memaid, screencapture, myregistrycab, mysoundscab, rar, totalcommander, phmregedit, redkybdskin, softkeyapplet, pockettunes, keepass, and "exec:\windows\cutsk.exe \mydocuments\mars.tsk" OMJ's is a nice base for all my junk I add.

On a side note, I loaded dcd's last night which is pretty nice. What I like about his is there is no htc homescreen and his phone plugin to toggle bluetooth on/off. There is a difference of free storage between dcd's and omj's, 143mb vs ca. 119mb after my customizations. But I have no issues with either. I'll probably flash omj's v8 base tonight. After tweakin it to me a bit.

Yesterday evening, I decided to pay attention to mine running ... 33 cabs installed and it takes roughly 17 minutes. So, you've certainly got a point.

... and since we are comparing side notes

I went ahead and flashed the Verizon ROM after tweaking a bit to add the Sprint carrier OEM folder from DCD (did a soft-reset before the VZW customizations ran). This VZW build is more current than the Sprint OEM ROM [Sprint 5.2.1620 (Build 18125.0.4.2) vs. Verizon 5.2.1946 (Build 18550.0.7.4)] so maybe this later version of WM6 has cleared up the memory leaks with the Sprint OEM ROM.

[rstoyguy]

Originally Posted by boggsie

I went ahead and flashed the Verizon ROM after tweaking a bit to add the Sprint carrier OEM folder from DCD (did a soft-reset before the VZW customizations ran). This VZW build is more current than the Sprint OEM ROM [Sprint 5.2.1620 (Build 18125.0.4.2) vs. Verizon 5.2.1946 (Build 18550.0.7.4)] so maybe this later version of WM6 has cleared up the memory leaks with the Sprint OEM ROM.

I agree with the following:

Originally Posted by jakdillard

6.1 is stable its whats put into 6.1 that makes it lockup ....

[boggsie]

I am certainly no authority on the general concensus, but casual observations leads me to a different conclusion.

I can speak with certainty to my own experience; at least I think I can. Sometimes I do wonder, though.

With the Sprint OEM ROM, I did not experience the occasional and unpredictable issues (phone freeze) that I experienced with the WM6/WM6.1 hybrid ROMs.

Unfortunately, the down-side to the Sprint OEM ROM are the memory leaks. You can leave the phone on the end-table and the WM6 OS can leak memory, while aparently doing little to nothing.

Certainly, this does not conclude that the WM61 OS is the culprit. As jakdillard has stated, the issues may very well be with how an application, system enhancement or extension behaves on WM6.1, as opposed to WM6. If something that I load on my phone is having problems running with WM61, that's all the more reason for me to look for a WM6 alternative ... at least for now.

Best regards,
-boggsie

[DHarvey]

3rd party neutral here. I will admit that I have only skimmed the surface of knowledge when it comes to building a custom ROM. I understand the terminology used but would not know where to begin when it comes to actually building these custom operating systems so here is my neutrality...

As a mediator having read this whole thread, I just have to speak my mind on a couple of things. I understand that I will probably get flamed for this but I really don't care as I feel as though I am an adult and can handle myself and your criticism well enough.

Correct me if I am wrong but you claim that people here are taking people's work and changing it to their liking by downloading a pre-built custom ROM and stripping it down and rebuilding it to their liking correct?

I really have a lot of respect for you for what you do for the community by creating these excellent ROMs and then uploading them to the FTP to share with everyone, but I can't stand how childish and possessive you are about this. I will agree that you have made the most complete WM6.1 ROMs that I have seen and tried but not everyone has the knowledge to build it from scratch like you did.

This is pretty much a breakdown of how I see things. Microsoft designed WM6 and released it on the Touch but WM6.1 was actually leaked and never officially released but non the less DESIGNED BY MICROSOFT. You, no2chem, OMJ, and others, took it upon yourselves(I'm not sure who was first but that doesn't really matter... Unless you live in a child's world where "I WAS FIRST, IT WAS ALL ME!!" actually matters) to strip down WM6 and WM6.1 and merge the 2 creating a unique WM6.1 "Hybrid". This I will agree was NOT designed by Microsoft but by several very intelligent people here on this very forum. You made one mistake though. You are still calling it Windows Mobile 6.1. Isn't "Windows" a Microsoft product???

It seems to me that what you are accusing others of doing, you are in fact guilty of yourself. Just because you are more knowledgeable about how to make your own SYS and OEM and write your own XIP files does not give you rights to this firmware or anyone else. It is freely distributed here thus you have no right to say to someone that they are stealing someone else's work as that is exactly what you and every other chef has already done only you are not stealing custom work, you are stealing firmware from a major corporation that took months, maybe years, to develop.

Think about all of that before you try to accuse someone of being lazy and ripping off someone else's work because I know you didn't design Windows Mobile, just an off brand home made version that requires you void your warranty just to use.

Originally Posted by boggsie

Isn't getting a donor rom, decomposing into a bare kitchen and then adding and removing spices, etc. to satisfy a particular taste, part of the justification behind publishing the Vogue_Kitchen_Tools.rar file on the ftp site?

I might happen to like the main course (OS CE version) but I don't like asparagus (TouchFlo), brussel sprouts (BioTouch) and carrots (Remote Desktop), so I am going to take them out in favor of corn (User Customization) and green beans (Voice Command) [for example].

Please continue the discussion, so that I might understand the issue that you referenced a couple of posts up.

While I am here, I expect that I can learn about more than PPCs.

Thank you, jakdillard.

Best regards,
-boggsie

I fully support what you are trying to say. It is illogical for JD or anyone else to claim you or anyone is ripping off their work as they are just as guilty. They may not be using someone's custom ROM as a base to strip down and rebuild with different apps but they are using OFFICIAL MICROSOFT OEM Firmware to build the custom ROMs they claim you and everyone else is ripping off. So what if you are using someone elses ROM as a base for your own. Once you remove what they added and added your own apps to the ROM instead is no longer their work anymore.

By the way, love the analogy, bolded in the quote.

Originally Posted by cozboogie

Everyone needs to take a deep breath (inhale......hold it....and exhale). Now then, everyone needs to relax and step away from this thread for a few hours. Get a snack and your favorite beverage and chill out. We're all family here and we need to treat everyone with respect, etc.

Thanks for your understanding.

late,
Coz

And finally... I agree. Let's all just go have a beer or pass around the peace pipe or whatever you're into and cool off. There's no need to argue and bicker like children over something as asinine as this.

Dan.

[jakdillard]

Originally Posted by dharvey4651

3rd party neutral here. I will admit that I have only skimmed the surface of knowledge when it comes to building a custom ROM. I understand the terminology used but would not know where to begin when it comes to actually building these custom operating systems so here is my neutrality...

As a mediator having read this whole thread, I just have to speak my mind on a couple of things. I understand that I will probably get flamed for this but I really don't care as I feel as though I am an adult and can handle myself and your criticism well enough.

Correct me if I am wrong but you claim that people here are taking people's work and changing it to their liking by downloading a pre-built custom ROM and stripping it down and rebuilding it to their liking correct?

I really have a lot of respect for you for what you do for the community by creating these excellent ROMs and then uploading them to the FTP to share with everyone, but I can't stand how childish and possessive you are about this. I will agree that you have made the most complete WM6.1 ROMs that I have seen and tried but not everyone has the knowledge to build it from scratch like you did.

This is pretty much a breakdown of how I see things. Microsoft designed WM6 and released it on the Touch but WM6.1 was actually leaked and never officially released but non the less DESIGNED BY MICROSOFT. You, no2chem, OMJ, and others, took it upon yourselves(I'm not sure who was first but that doesn't really matter... Unless you live in a child's world where "I WAS FIRST, IT WAS ALL ME!!" actually matters) to strip down WM6 and WM6.1 and merge the 2 creating a unique WM6.1 "Hybrid". This I will agree was NOT designed by Microsoft but by several very intelligent people here on this very forum. You made one mistake though. You are still calling it Windows Mobile 6.1. Isn't "Windows" a Microsoft product???

It seems to me that what you are accusing others of doing, you are in fact guilty of yourself. Just because you are more knowledgeable about how to make your own SYS and OEM and write your own XIP files does not give you rights to this firmware or anyone else. It is freely distributed here thus you have no right to say to someone that they are stealing someone else's work as that is exactly what you and every other chef has already done only you are not stealing custom work, you are stealing firmware from a major corporation that took months, maybe years, to develop.

Think about all of that before you try to accuse someone of being lazy and ripping off someone else's work because I know you didn't design Windows Mobile, just an off brand home made version that requires you void your warranty just to use.



I fully support what you are trying to say. It is illogical for JD or anyone else to claim you or anyone is ripping off their work as they are just as guilty. They may not be using someone's custom ROM as a base to strip down and rebuild with different apps but they are using OFFICIAL MICROSOFT OEM Firmware to build the custom ROMs they claim you and everyone else is ripping off. So what if you are using someone elses ROM as a base for your own. Once you remove what they added and added your own apps to the ROM instead is no longer their work anymore.

By the way, love the analogy, bolded in the quote.



And finally... I agree. Let's all just go have a beer or pass around the peace pipe or whatever you're into and cool off. There's no need to argue and bicker like children over something as asinine as this.

Dan.

I feel that you may need to read this thread carefully I did not say people are stealing others work they indeed they already owned up to doing that ...... and I feel that if you can take the vouge kitchen and break down a custom why is it that you can't break down a stock rom and build a custom of your own? ..... That is why I created threads like " being original can you do it" "Challenge to rom chefs" because I strongly feel that if I can do it you can to .... What I'm trying to do once again is push the community to stop being duplicaters ...... Some folks over at xda had the same issue going on so they came up with a tool that turns all packages into one so that when you try to break their roms down in a kitchen you would get a message in the sys folder that says "beta, make your own rom" I have not done this yet but I can understand why this tools has become needed ...... and calling me childish hmmmm well not gonna worry about that but again read this thread completely and remember this is a pass time for me that can easily change into something else and by the way I'm done it was nice but now its time to move on you guys are right .......

[DHarvey]

Originally Posted by jakdillard

I feel that you may need to read this thread carefully I did not say people are stealing others work they indeed they already owned up to doing that ...... and I feel that if you can take the vouge kitchen and break down a custom why is it that you can't break down a stock rom and build a custom of your own? ..... That is why I created threads like " being original can you do it" "Challenge to rom chefs" because I strongly feel that if I can do it you can to .... What I'm trying to do once again is push the community to stop being duplicaters ...... Some folks over at xda had the same issue going on so they came up with a tool that turns all packages into one so that when you try to break their roms down in a kitchen you would get a message in the sys folder that says "beta, make your own rom" I have not done this yet but I can understand why this tools has become needed ...... and calling me childish hmmmm well not gonna worry about that but again read this thread completely and remember this is a pass time for me that can easily change into something else and by the way I'm done it was nice but now its time to move on you guys are right .......

I will admit that I was out of line calling you childish. For the record I was calling the argument childish as well, not you specifically and I do think that the tool created over at XDA was an excellent idea. I'm just trying to say that people will "duplicate" until pigs fly. That's just life. I just don't see a real reason to start an argument over it. If you really want to stop people from breaking down a custom ROM that has already been made to use it as a base for something different and unique to them, then go ahead and "copyright" the ROMs you make using that app from XDA so people can no longer use pre-built custom ROMs as a base rom. I support that as well. I was merely stating my mind.

Dan.