HTC's 2010 Lineup

[x10guy]

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg

LOL, you couldn't be more wrong.

Windows Mobile license sales are at an all time high right now. That means they are selling more copies than ever.

They are losing market share because the market itself is growing even faster than Windows Mobile. But I don't see how you can say Windows Mobile is dying when it is selling more than licenses than ever.

You know we are still waiting for confirmation on this...
Just settle things and provide a link that shows up-to-date data.

Still waiting.....

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by x10guy

You know we are still waiting for confirmation on this...
Just settle things and provide a link that shows up-to-date data.

Still waiting.....

Look man, I'm starting to wonder if you're serious or just some troll...

I posted the confirmation. You played the ignorant card and acted like you didn't know what it meant. You tried to dismiss it as not being relevant, or being outdated. But you can't do that if your entire argument is based on a comparison to the very numbers I posted. If you are going to eliminate my numbers from the argument, then all you can look at is THIS year's sales, in which Microsoft is selling a ton of licenses. The Touch Pro 2 is the hottest business device on the market right now, and I posted that link too. The only reason people say the sales are not good, is because they aren't as good as last year's sales- which are the exact figures I posted and you are saying aren't relevant. You can't have it both ways, either the numbers are relevant or they aren't.

I provided a link already that showed Microsoft set their all time record in 2008. That is just last year, for those who can't count.

Do you need me to provide a link that proves most device subsidies are on 2 year contracts? Or can we accept that as common knowledge?

Assuming we accept that as common knowledge, lets now add 2 years to the 2008 figure. What do we have? We're right in the middle of the contracts all of those record sales signed last year. What does that mean? MS has more Windows Mobile licenses out there right now than ever before. And when those contracts are up, where does that leave us? Just in time for the release date of WM 7. So now we know that MS has a record number users locked into 2 year agreements, and when those agreements are up it will be just in time for the release of WM 7.

Now, do you have some current proof that evidence that says otherwise? And don't post any numbers that reference my last year numbers if you are just going to write mine off as being old and outdated. Because MS is still selling licenses. The only way it appears they are declining is when you start comparing the current sales to last year's (record) sales.

Nice try, but epic fail. I'm still waiting on you to post a link from a business or investment pro that shares your opinion. I could easily write my own biased blog and post a link to it. That doesn't mean crap. Show me where even ONE business or investment pro actually agrees with your opinion though.

[brownhornet]

All this going in circles and winmo sales are still dropping while droid and iphone are having record setting quarters. Spin it how you want but winmo is the least desired smartphone right now and that wont change. Wait until iphone goes unexclusive with at&t and it will get even worse.

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

All this going in circles and winmo sales are still dropping while droid and iphone are having record setting quarters. Spin it how you want but winmo is the least desired smartphone right now and that wont change. Wait until iphone goes unexclusive with at&t and it will get even worse.

Again, not true. The Touch Pro 2 is the hottest business device on the market right now, and I already posted a link that proves this. The Verizon version was sold out for like 2 months straight, lol.

A main reason the iPhone is selling so much is because AT&T (the only place you can get them) was practically giving them away. I'm sure I can find some articles to prove it if need be. But when the iPhone 3GS was released, all the current iPhone owners were upset because they didn't qualify for the subsidy- because their current iPhone 3G was only 1 year old. AT&T ended up caving to them and giving them the $200 new customer price. So, of course everyone that owned an iPhone forked out the $200 and bought the new and improved model.

That same thing is going to happen with Windows Mobile users next year when all of the record setting Windows Mobile purchasers from 2008 are eligible for a new device subsidy- at the same time the new OS (WM 7) is released with hot new hardware running it.

All of those customers from 2008 haven't gone anywhere. The vast majority of them are still running Windows Mobile devices. So Windows Mobile actually has more users out there right now than ever before. Especially when you consider that right now the Touch Pro 2 is the hottest business device on the market, a year after Windows Mobile had its best year ever.

Again- all you doom and gloom people- show me just ONE profesional business or investment analyst who published an article sharing your opinion. I don't care about the tech blogs. Those guys writing them are not qualified to say if MS is struggling, or anything about the business side of things. Their qualification begins and ends with telling us which platform they like best and why. They are certainly not even pretending to be experts on the business or investment side of things though. Yet here we have everyone taking their comments and trying to use them in a business or investment manner.

If you think Windows Mobile is in trouble, I need more than some blogger saying he likes the iPhone better. And I need more than this year's sales being lower than last year's record setting sales.

Everything is going according to the plan Microsoft laid out over a year ago when they announced the delay of WM 7.

[acts]

I may not agree 100% with what saltydawg is saying, but some points are valid:

http://www.mobilemonday.net/news/western-european-mobile-phone-market-in-on-move-again

Android OS continued to grow its market share from 4.2% in 2Q09 to 5.4% in 3Q09. Several operators listed Android devices in 3Q09 for the first time, which helped Android shipments to grow, though consumers steer clear of Google's OS and sell-out is below everyone's expectations.
Consumers recognize the Google brand, but still do not understand what Android is. The lack of devices available didn't help to raise awareness, though this is expected to change, with more handsets from LG, Samsung, Sony Ericsson, Motorola, and other vendors hitting the market soon.

Android is still in infancy, people are touting how awesome it is and that it'll destroy windows mobile but globally it's not anywhere near the top, at least not on the same level as Windows Mobile, RIM, or Symbian. Microsoft has bigger fish to fry at this point. Remember, this battle isn't just in the US.

Windows Mobile continued to lose market share, mainly due to Microsoft's strategy of launching all new devices running the new WM6.5 in October and not throughout the summer sales season, which negatively impacted market performance. The new OS is getting good track from operators, and WM market share is expected to improve in 4Q09.

Looks to me like it was more a timing issue due to delay of Windows Mobile 7, and ultimately the mid update with regards to 6.5. The fact that Windows Mobile is expected to improve market share on 6.5 speaks well on its behalf. And we have not even hit windows mobile 7 yet on a global scale.

And the argument about windows mobile losing more if iphone loses exclusivity here in the US, well it goes the same for Android, except Windows has the the business side backing it up. Android right now caters to the same market group as the Iphone.

Again, WinMo is not dead, it really hinges on 2010 Q3-Q4 and what it can bring to the table with Windows Mobile 7. And if HTC keeps their word, they will help Microsoft boost their presence in the business enterprise section with WinMo 7 products and ultimately help WinMo transition into catering for the population that is targetted by iPhone, Android/MotoDroid population.

[x10guy]

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg

Look man, I'm starting to wonder if you're serious or just some troll...

I posted the confirmation. .

Sorry, Your arguments are so LAUGHABLE. I can't believe you are basing your ENTIRE argument on data that is 18 months old!!!
Confirmation from July 2007- June 2008 is NOT confirmation.
You might as well go back to the 1990s data on Windows CE.

It's about time you got up-to-date figures.

Also your dismissal of all the CURRENT articles as being biased and ignorant is laughable. (look I'm not making this stuff up... just google it. It's all over the news).
The bottom line is that most believe that Winmo is in trouble.

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by x10guy

Sorry, Your arguments are so LAUGHABLE. I can't believe you are basing your ENTIRE argument on data that is 18 months old!!!
Confirmation from July 2007- June 2008 is NOT confirmation.
You might as well go back to the 1990s data on Windows CE.

It's about time you got up-to-date figures.

Also your dismissal of all the CURRENT articles as being biased and ignorant is laughable. (look I'm not making this stuff up... just google it. It's all over the news).
The bottom line is that most believe that Winmo is in trouble.

Show me some "news" that shares your opinion. Some random blog with an amateur living in his mom's basement is not a credible news source.

If you think my argument is so laughable, how about you prove it? You haven't posted one iota of evidence to support your claim yet. You keep talking about how "everyone knows" and "it's all over the place" but that doesn't hold water unless you prove it. Clearly, I don't agree with your position.

Yes, I agree that you can find a bunch of unqualified hacks predicting the end of Windows Mobile just because they like some other OS better. But I have not seen even one single professional business or investment analyst make such a ridiculous claim.

So, in a nutshell, my argument consists of facts, figures, estimates, quarterly reports, and a plan that Microsoft laid out over a year ago that seems to be going better than they even estimated so far.

Your argument consists of you telling me I am wrong based on a google search you did and haven't posted any links from yet.

And I'm the one with a laughable argument. LOL, nice.

Do yourself a favor- go study up on investing so you can understand how ridiculous you look when you say last year's sales numbers are not relevant. Call any decent stock broker and ask him if he shares your opinion on that matter. Let him explain how stupid it is to look at this year's sales numbers and say last year's are not relevant- especially in a market where a 2 year contract is the norm.

If you have some current, credible news with a qualified expert that shares your opinion, post it. I have called BS on that ridiculous claim several times now, and you have yet to actually post a link to back it up. I do NOT think there is any credible news source with a qualified business or investment expert predicting the end of Windows Mobile. If you are claiming this news is all over the place, then post a link and prove it already.

[x10guy]

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg

Show me some "news" that shares your opinion. Some random blog with an amateur libing in his mom's basement is not a credible news source.

So basically you are calling of of the following "random amateurs" blogging from a Mom's basement":

• Gartner Research (they are the company that published all the sales figures - and their analysts do evaluations)
• ZDNet
• CNET news
• Engadget
• Infoworld
• Arstechnica
• Businessweek
• (I could list like 10 more that detail the decline in Windows Mobile)

So according to you all of them are "basement bloggers..." Now that's funny! And again, who have you listed as sources for your information?? You talk about "credible news sources"... So AGAIN, where are your credible news sources?

Zilch... that's what I thought.

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by x10guy

So basically you are calling of of the following "random amateurs" blogging from a Mom's basement":

• Gartner Research (they are the company that published all the sales figures - and their analysts do evaluations)
• ZDNet
• CNET news
• Engadget
• Infoworld
• Arstechnica
• Businessweek
• (I could list like 10 more that detail the decline in Windows Mobile)

So according to you all of them are "basement bloggers..." Now that's funny! And again, who have you listed as sources for your information?? You talk about "credible news sources"... So AGAIN, where are your credible news sources?

Zilch... that's what I thought.

Post a link where someone predicts the end of Windows Mobile, and we'll take it on a case by case basis. You haven't posted anything for me to call a blogger in his mom's basement. You told me to do a google search, and all I found was a bunch of bloggers who probably lived in their mom's basement.

If you have a link from one of the above that supports your claim, post it.

Again, I am calling BS on you. You do NOT have a link from a credible business or investment expert predicting the end of Windows Mobile. How many times do you have to be called out before you either admit you were wrong or make an effort to back up your claims?

As for where we stand right now- I already posted sales numbers from last year proving they set an all time record. I posted another link showing that right now they have the hottest business device on the market. We all have enough common sense to understand that the smartphone market is a 2 year cycle, based on the 2 year contracts everyone has to sign to get a decent price on a device- therefore most of those record customers from last year are still using a Windows Mobile device today, and will be ready to buy a new one next year. And we also know that even ith that being the case, the Touch Pro 2 is the hottest business device righ tnow, and Verizon- the largest carrier in the USA, is having trouble keeping the device in stock.

And you think you saying it's laughable somehow trumps all that? Not even close.

[x10guy]

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg

Post a lionk where someone predicts the end of Windows Mobile, and we'll take it on a case by case basis. You haven't posted anything for me to call a blogger in his mom's basement. You told me to do a google search, and all I found was a bunch of bloggers who probably lived in their mom's basement.

If you have a link from one of the above that supports your claim, post it.

Again, I am calling BS on you. You do NOT have a link from a credible business or investment expert predicting the end of Windows Mobile. How many times do you have to be called out before you either admit you were wrong or make an effort to back up your claims?

Just curious. Do you actual read my posts? I NEVER said that that "Windows Mobile is coming to an End". I actually said the contrary. Winmo will always be around because Microsoft is so big. All I'm saying is that Winmo is on the decline. I never said it was going away.

OK. I'll give you a list. It's going to take a few minutes (in another post) because there are so many. But again where are yours credible news sources?

You keep on saying all this stuff. Just put up links and be done with it.
The longer you keep on avoiding it... the more you seem to be making this stuff up.

Look I'll become more a believer that Winmo is actually healthy and growing as you say.... just provide some links?