HTC's 2010 Lineup

[brownhornet]

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg

Again, not true. The Touch Pro 2 is the hottest business device on the market right now, and I already posted a link that proves this. The Verizon version was sold out for like 2 months straight, lol.

A main reason the iPhone is selling so much is because AT&T (the only place you can get them) was practically giving them away. I'm sure I can find some articles to prove it if need be. But when the iPhone 3GS was released, all the current iPhone owners were upset because they didn't qualify for the subsidy- because their current iPhone 3G was only 1 year old. AT&T ended up caving to them and giving them the $200 new customer price. So, of course everyone that owned an iPhone forked out the $200 and bought the new and improved model.

That same thing is going to happen with Windows Mobile users next year when all of the record setting Windows Mobile purchasers from 2008 are eligible for a new device subsidy- at the same time the new OS (WM 7) is released with hot new hardware running it.

All of those customers from 2008 haven't gone anywhere. The vast majority of them are still running Windows Mobile devices. So Windows Mobile actually has more users out there right now than ever before. Especially when you consider that right now the Touch Pro 2 is the hottest business device on the market, a year after Windows Mobile had its best year ever.

Again- all you doom and gloom people- show me just ONE profesional business or investment analyst who published an article sharing your opinion. I don't care about the tech blogs. Those guys writing them are not qualified to say if MS is struggling, or anything about the business side of things. Their qualification begins and ends with telling us which platform they like best and why. They are certainly not even pretending to be experts on the business or investment side of things though. Yet here we have everyone taking their comments and trying to use them in a business or investment manner.

If you think Windows Mobile is in trouble, I need more than some blogger saying he likes the iPhone better. And I need more than this year's sales being lower than last year's record setting sales.

Everything is going according to the plan Microsoft laid out over a year ago when they announced the delay of WM 7.

And you said all that to say what? Post current tp2 sales vs iphone sales and that will end this discussion.

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by x10guy

Like I said, let's see what happens in 6 months and we can reevaluate our positions.

One other thing. The MS stock price is high. I never said it wasn't. But I don't think Windows Mobile has much to do with it. Compared to their PC Operating system and Office packages, etc... Windows Mobile is such a small small percentage of their business.

Again, you fail to miss the point on the stock price.

Microsoft has to answer to shareholders like any other corporation. No matter how high that stock price is- if the shareholders thought they could be making more money (either through higher stock price or higher dividends) if Windows Mobile were scrapped, then you better believe shareholders would demand that it be scrapped. And you would be seeing shareholders and analysts call for it right now.

The fact that nobody is calling for it- the people who are either maiking or losing money on the decisions are fine with it, means it is NOT in trouble.

[brownhornet]

And LMAO @ using a generic microsoft stock to make an argument on this discussion...

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

And you said all that to say what? Post current tp2 sales vs iphone sales and that will end this discussion.

So wait- are you saying Windows Mobile must be dyingif the Touch pro 2 is not outselling the iPhone? Or what the heck would those stats even have to do with anything?


I could post Microsoft quarterly profits compared to Apple's if you want, since these are the companies that are backing these respective platforms...

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

And LMAO @ using a generic microsoft stock to make an argument on this discussion...

Please elaborate on how Microsoft stock is not relevant. It is probably the single most unbiased indicator here. There is no journalist inputting his own opinion- it's just the market speaking to us.

Again, if Windows Mobile was hurting their bottom line, investors would be calling for it to be scrapped. Please shopw me where that has happened. I provided the links where you would be able to find such a report if one existed. And I even provided the independent yahoo finance links- intentionally not providing the MSN Money links due to bias concerns...

Get the hint here? Windows Mobile has a HUGE backer in Microsoft. Much bigger than the opinion of some random blogger. For anyone to say Windows Mobile is in trouble, they better first demonstrate where either Microsoft as a whole is in trouble, or where Microsoft has even hinted that they will stop pouring resources into it, or even where investors are calling for Microsoft to drop it.

NONE of that has happened yet. On the contrary- Microsoft is actually making money off of Windows Mobile, and there are more Windows Mobile users today than at any point in the past. So there is no way it is in trouble.

You seem to have the impression that just because the iPhone is selling more than Windows Mobile that Windows Mobile must be doomed. That is not the case at all. As long as it isn't a burnden on the investors, Microsoft has plenty of resources at its disposal to keep pushing it. And right now it is the oposite of as burden- it is actually making money (even if not as much as the iPhone) and has more current users than ever before.

[acts]

Saltydawg, your dismissal of x10guy's articles is calling the kettle black. Sure, on a couple of those guys ("journalists"/"editors") like the ars guy, they don't seem very credible, I'll give you that. But that's what they do as journalists and and editors. They gather sources, then make an informed opinion. I mean one of them was clearly a "Viewpoint" piece, it even said Viewpoint at the top.

However, on the flip side, you dismissed his articles and used articles that pretty much are reflective of the same problems. Even your source on worldwide licenses is iffy. It's a blogger who follows Microsoft.

Stock prices are irrelevant for the most part because windows mobile is only a subset of the Microsoft corporation. MS is so big and has its reaches in so many things even if windows mobile tanked, you would hardly see a dent in the stock prices. Put it on the flip side, If google android never grew out of its 2% share in the next year, and WinMobo came out with a bang in H2 2010, do you think Google stock would drop? Probably not.

[gostars9]

I like tacos

[Journeyjeans]

And Doritos.

[acts]

Going back to the HTC Lineup for 2010:

http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1126812

This is a gartner article. I'm not going to shell out $1200 for more in depth readings for you guys.

Samsung and LG both had a very strong second quarter of 2009 with sales of 55 million units and 30.5 million units, respectively. Samsung's touchscreen devices, qwerty phones and smartphones drove sales in mature markets, and Gartner expects it will continue to gain market share in the second half of 2009 to close the gap with Nokia.

Samsung currently has majority platform in winmobile and are planning to move to 50% android, 50% winmobile in the next 1.5 years. At the current rate, Windows Mobile 7 will be out by then, clearly Windows Mobile has a big chance for growth if it can fix itself.

Motorola's sales of 15.9 million units were slightly better than expected, but its presence has rapidly concentrated on the Americas, and it has lost most of its share of the Western European market, where it sold fewer than 1 million units in the second quarter of 2009. Most operators and customers will be waiting for Motorola's new Android-based products planned for the fourth quarter of 2009.

Motorala is basically a wash in europe. The droid may be great right now in the US, but the touch pro 2 is selling more than the droid for verizon at this point in time. We have to wait until we get out of Q42009 to know how well the droid, TP2, iphone, and various android phones did.

At the high end of the smartphone market, HTC remained in the No. 4 position behind Apple, where it has been since the third quarter of 2008. It reported lower expectations for the second half of 2009 due to product delays and now expects 2009 revenue to decline by low- to mid-single digits year-on-year, far below its previous outlook of 10 per cent annual growth.

HTC is holding at 4, right behind apple. It has a strong partnership with Microsoft, and is beginning to offer Android phones. However, keep in mind the HTC Touch HD2 came out in europe this quarter. Touch Pro 2 is selling very well.

Microsoft's share continued to drop year-on-year to account for 9 per cent of the market in the second quarter of 2009.

"Microsoft licensees HTC and Samsung continued to add features to their own interfaces, on top of Windows Mobile, to create more competitive products and make up for the usability constraints of the Microsoft platform," said Roberta Cozza, principal analyst at Gartner.

Yeah, Microsoft share continues to drop, but the fact is, Microsoft holds 9% share worldwide on the mobile os scene, and android holds roughly 2%. The fact is, we don't know if there's a Microsoft phone that might come along. Windows Mobile OS success depends on the manufacturers and what they will do with the upcoming windows mobile 7. If HTC and other manufacturers can do with WinMobile 7 with what has happened with the Touch Pro 2, and samsung with the Omnia, things might change drastically. Until then, the battle is just getting started, Win Mobile is not on the decline as bad as people say it is, and Android is just teething.

Personally, again, I re-iterate, I'd like to see HTC's roadmap for the 2nd half of 2010 to see where android and windows mobile are gonna be.
It'll also be interesting to see when Samsung will decide to roll out BADA, since it's closing in on Nokia as #1 in the world, and it's obvious BADA will directly compete with Symbian, Android, WinMobile and RIM.

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by acts

Saltydawg, your dismissal of x10guy's articles is calling the kettle black. Sure, on a couple of those guys ("journalists"/"editors") like the ars guy, they don't seem very credible, I'll give you that. But that's what they do as journalists and and editors. They gather sources, then make an informed opinion. I mean one of them was clearly a "Viewpoint" piece, it even said Viewpoint at the top.

However, on the flip side, you dismissed his articles and used articles that pretty much are reflective of the same problems. Even your source on worldwide licenses is iffy. It's a blogger who follows Microsoft.

Stock prices are irrelevant for the most part because windows mobile is only a subset of the Microsoft corporation. MS is so big and has its reaches in so many things even if windows mobile tanked, you would hardly see a dent in the stock prices. Put it on the flip side, If google android never grew out of its 2% share in the next year, and WinMobo came out with a bang in H2 2010, do you think Google stock would drop? Probably not.

Well it's like this...
He is basing his entire argument on the opinion of some people who are not qualified to give the opinion (at least not the way he is using their opinion).

I don't care about their opinions. I took a fact from that article, MS all time record for WM sales. I didn't even read the rest of the article, nor did I cite the author's opinion as part of my argument. I just cited one of the facts listed in the article.

I then listed an opinion article by one of the same authers he had linked to (the New York Times guy) and didn't use it as part of my argument either. I only listed it to show him how ridiculous it was to base an argument on someone else's opinion that isn't even qualified to give an opinion on the matter.

But the cell phones users signing 2 year contracts, that is obviously part of my argument. It wasn't even contested, but I linked to a source just in case there was any doubt.

Stock prices are absolutely relevant for this discussion. Because if Windows Mobile isn't affecting the stock price, then how the heck can anyone say it is in trouble? Yes, Microsoft is huge- that is the whole point. Microsoft is plenty big enough to weather any storm. Unless investors start calling for Microsoft to cut their losses, then Windows Mobile will keep getting more and more resources thrown at it until it succeeds (just like the Xbox). Not that Windows Mobile is even in a storm though- there are currently more Windows Mobile users right now than ever before.

And yes, Google is the same way with Android. Wich is ironic you bring that up, because Windows Mobile hasa bigger market share than Android right now, and nobody is saying Android is in trouble...