Windows Phone 7... Doomed?

[Dr.8820]

So a phone manufacturer has what to do with the os again.....? Can you do better? Lets talk about the os?

[sp4rtan5]

Originally Posted by Dr.8820

So a phone manufacturer has what to do with the os again.....? Can you do better? Lets talk about the os?

Why u ignoring 2 yr old recycled hardware? How about we talk bour that bike bandit.


Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

[gTen]

Originally Posted by AZTECHKA

@ gTen... You are at least well informed on both platforms... I would only categorize you as a troll in a partial capacity. Trolls be trolling though.
And "is WP7 doomed?" really turned into an Android thread for a minute.

I don't really care... This site doesn't pay my bills nor does Microsoft.... I'm just saying... Trolls are bothersome in ANY thread.

As you were.
p.

It wasn't about Android..it was about how WP7 stacks up to Android AND iphone and other platforms that may come out..since I had an Epic I guess people took the liberty to attack Android..personally as I said I owe my loyalty to no manufacturer and to no OS.. only who ever gives me the ebst package at the time..my choice of the Epic is solely based on that...

I personally think M$ choice of going in with a 1st gen snapdragon was a bad one..and you know that yourself cause I remember back in the day on the WP7 gang thread the posts were about 1.2ghz phones, 2ghz phones, dual cores and etc..and instead we got that..I mean admit it..even you didn't expect that..and what I am saying is with having the old snapdragon as the minimum it will bring the platform down for at least a year..maybe even 2...its not saying that its 100% doomed..but this is one brick off the bottom..

Originally Posted by Dr.8820

But what makes it doomed? Because of the processor or screen design, because none of that has anything to with the os.

The processor and carriers still having control..

[Noir]

Originally Posted by sp4rtan5

This is why. M$ makes a blunder move on shipping the first launch under HTC. Obviously, htc fanboism got to you helmet. Havent you learned? Htc = cheap recycled goods.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

htc, lg, samsung, and dell, with asus and other partners on the way...
but its just htc right...

I personally think M$ choice of going in with a 1st gen snapdragon was a bad one..

was it really their choice or tech trends? Recall that when microsoft initially had this overhaul, the year was mid 2009, in which snapdragon was freshly released. I don't think microsoft, nor qualcomm, knew that they would be releasing an optimized snapdragon, or a dual core snapdragon chipset. Fast forward to about the latter part of the year where companies were receiving snapdragon. Per usual, qualcomm discussed plans to release both new chips.

It is the fault of honest tech, not really the OEM/OS engineers. Let's recall that much of the whole optimization for new chipsets has android up a creek without a paddle. The honest only way to get fresh tech is to use a new company not named qualcomm. Again it was a microsoft move, but if dual core/optimized snapdragon chipsets were out at the time of the code base, then microsoft would've used it. Now we can call microsoft foolish and stupid a lot, but let's be real. They do pay attention.

you know that yourself cause I remember back in the day on the WP7 gang thread the posts were about 1.2ghz phones, 2ghz phones, dual cores and etc..and instead we got that

if anyone in the "microsoft gang" said that, then that was silly to say. Heck dual core snapdragon processors are BARELY (and I mean BARELY) making it on the scene. Is it possible that an OEM may have it. Rumor is that VzW incredible HD may, and frankly I can't say if that's really valid. However I will say that if anyone in the gang said that for first gen...dumb thoughts...

That's not to say microsoft will never get it. CE7 has support for a LOT of good stuff that can easily surpass android and apple in terms of ingenuity and optimization. But it takes the pace of technology to quicken to actually release it and microsoft to continue gaining momentum.

The processor and carriers still having control..

Carriers/OEM have less control than you think. Unlike with android or even previous windows mobile devices, the OEMs bundled crap on there and lots of it. The OEMS are restricted to very few removable programs on a wp7 handset. As far as the processor, heck that will change...sadly probably in the windows phone 8 announcement. I wouldn't be surprised if there is support for other chipsets...Personally I would want to see a samsung chip in there because they are more efficient than qualcomm/broadcomm chipsets. Always have been. Even in the days of windows mobile, my samsung i730 was more powerful than the xv6800!

[AZTECHKA]

Yeah... Back in the day it was all about the snapdragon and the hummingbird didn't hit the rumor mill till MS had already announced it's hardware reqs. Then the partners went to work and put together what I think I would put together for a new 1.0 OS. I've said it many times... Why would they put top of the line technology in something they haven't even seen. Or something that may or may not "hit".
I'm riding the wave. As far as I'm concerned... WP7 is only 7 weeks old. Of course it's at the bottom... Oh wait... It's slowly creaping up to a comfortable place in the phone arena. MS knows what they're doing. Even with the KIN. LOL. But anyhoo... Give it some time... They are on the right track and they may have lost alot of you to Android and they may loose me in the future as I'm not exactly their target demographic. But I assure you that my 17 and my 20 year olds are foaming at the mouth to get their hands on one of these puppies. So regardless of chipsets and history and loyalty and anything else... Microsoft is M$ for a reason. They have the money and they're not affraid to use it. They'll be OK. And with me or without me WP7 will be too. Now let's just hope the technical partners get on the ball and put out something amazing / game changing.
p.

[sp4rtan5]

Founder and leader of this clown circus has a Epic. Nuuuuuuffff said.

P.S. He has a Epic. Lol.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

[Noir]

Originally Posted by sp4rtan5

Founder and leader of this clown circus has a Epic. Nuuuuuuffff said.

P.S. He has a Epic. Lol.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

dude even I had an epic even took pics with it side by sided it with a tp2 and hd2 and used it like a dirty desperate crack *****...
that didn't mean my experience with it was god. Frankly my experience wasn't good and it wasn't refurbed, it was new in box. I can't say my experience is representative of everyone else's, but a few mates with the device have similar issues (not the whole sky is falling issues I had, but the general losing signal, screen giving out, slower than other devices)

As far as wp7 goes, a lot of good has come from it for me and it allowed me to dig deep into the file architecture and installation of programs. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if from chevron, we see a lot of good stuff coming our way. In some ways we have as devices not samsung can run samsung hub and deploy the htc sense hub with htc youtube. That's not to say its done, there's plenty ot do but in a few short days, the jailbreaking community for wp7 (as it were) has exploded. Some good results some bad results but the goal is development and enhancing experience.

I'll say it again I like my wp7 experience on the dell venue pro and the samsung focus. HTC clearly has some great programs on their arsenal as well so users have multiple options. So to harp tirelessly on HTC drivers is not a sound argument because HTC is not the only OEM out there. In essence perhaps you should get your butt out of your rear and pay attention.

I don't like android, but I love miui and the porting process to different platforms. Let's be real, if I can give in and say this platform for android can do something that makes me go wow I like this, why can't you?

[sp4rtan5]

Originally Posted by Noir

dude even I had an epic even took pics with it side by sided it with a tp2 and hd2 and used it like a dirty desperate crack *****...
that didn't mean my experience with it was god. Frankly my experience wasn't good and it wasn't refurbed, it was new in box. I can't say my experience is representative of everyone else's, but a few mates with the device have similar issues (not the whole sky is falling issues I had, but the general losing signal, screen giving out, slower than other devices)

As far as wp7 goes, a lot of good has come from it for me and it allowed me to dig deep into the file architecture and installation of programs. Actually I wouldn't be surprised if from chevron, we see a lot of good stuff coming our way. In some ways we have as devices not samsung can run samsung hub and deploy the htc sense hub with htc youtube. That's not to say its done, there's plenty ot do but in a few short days, the jailbreaking community for wp7 (as it were) has exploded. Some good results some bad results but the goal is development and enhancing experience.

I'll say it again I like my wp7 experience on the dell venue pro and the samsung focus. HTC clearly has some great programs on their arsenal as well so users have multiple options. So to harp tirelessly on HTC drivers is not a sound argument because HTC is not the only OEM out there. In essence perhaps you should get your butt out of your rear and pay attention.

I don't like android, but I love miui and the porting process to different platforms. Let's be real, if I can give in and say this platform for android can do something that makes me go wow I like this, why can't you?

Imagine it with me. "hummingbird". Nuff said.


Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

[gTen]

Originally Posted by Noir

was it really their choice or tech trends? Recall that when microsoft initially had this overhaul, the year was mid 2009, in which snapdragon was freshly released. I don't think microsoft, nor qualcomm, knew that they would be releasing an optimized snapdragon, or a dual core snapdragon chipset. Fast forward to about the latter part of the year where companies were receiving snapdragon. Per usual, qualcomm discussed plans to release both new chips.\

But see..this is the oversight on M$ part..when your building an OS that will come out in the future..you have to fight the enemies of tomorrow..not the enemies of today...even Palm released WebOS which at the time was on hardware on par with the times..M$ on the other-hand planned to release in end of 2010/early 2011 and did not take this into account? complete oversight...

It is the fault of honest tech, not really the OEM/OS engineers. Let's recall that much of the whole optimization for new chipsets has android up a creek without a paddle. The honest only way to get fresh tech is to use a new company not named qualcomm. Again it was a microsoft move, but if dual core/optimized snapdragon chipsets were out at the time of the code base, then microsoft would've used it. Now we can call microsoft foolish and stupid a lot, but let's be real. They do pay attention.

The dual cores were available for purchase already this year..the newer 2nd gen snapdragons were available last year..they just cost more..manufacturers though choose to buy whatever gives them competitive performance for cheapest price to widen their profit margins...To be fair unlike Android M$ requires the hardware to be certified and optimized for before implementing it..so a dual core may be pushing it..BUT they really have no excuse for not releasing a 2nd gen 1ghz snapdragon similar to the one in the mytouch 4g..the processor as been out for over a year..and there really is no excuse..

if anyone in the "microsoft gang" said that, then that was silly to say. Heck dual core snapdragon processors are BARELY (and I mean BARELY) making it on the scene. Is it possible that an OEM may have it. Rumor is that VzW incredible HD may, and frankly I can't say if that's really valid. However I will say that if anyone in the gang said that for first gen...dumb thoughts...

It wasn't silly..people were looking at HTC Gold..and since HD2 came out over a year ago who would expect M$ to go with more of the same?
People thought M$ would work with hardware providers to ensure that they were ahead of the curve

That's not to say microsoft will never get it. CE7 has support for a LOT of good stuff that can easily surpass android and apple in terms of ingenuity and optimization. But it takes the pace of technology to quicken to actually release it and microsoft to continue gaining momentum.

CE7? you mean CE6...

Carriers/OEM have less control than you think. Unlike with android or even previous windows mobile devices, the OEMs bundled crap on there and lots of it. The OEMS are restricted to very few removable programs on a wp7 handset. As far as the processor, heck that will change...sadly probably in the windows phone 8 announcement. I wouldn't be surprised if there is support for other chipsets...Personally I would want to see a samsung chip in there because they are more efficient than qualcomm/broadcomm chipsets. Always have been. Even in the days of windows mobile, my samsung i730 was more powerful than the xv6800!

Carriers still control updates :/...as for Qualcomm..they have good processors..the problem is either they price them too high, have too much licensing on every little tech(HTC drivers anyone?)..or manufacturers are being too cheap and trying to cut corners or up their profit margins..Samsung on the other hand produces their own processors and other hardware so they dont have to pay the middleman fees and put it in their devices cost effectively..

[Noir]

But see..this is the oversight on M$ part..when your building an OS that will come out in the future..you have to fight the enemies of tomorrow..not the enemies of today...even Palm released WebOS which at the time was on hardware on par with the times..M$ on the other-hand planned to release in end of 2010/early 2011 and did not take this into account? complete oversight...

Can't get blood from a lemon though. The dual core/optimized snapdragon processors were only pipe dreams in early/mid 2009. Heck snapdragon wasn't "fully" released till that fall with the HD2 and TG01 and both of those devices were not optimized for snapdragon. They were underclocked actually and clocked based on demand. Now we can argue all day here whether microsoft could grab tech from thin air and create binaries based on that, but then...let's think a moment.
Prolong a release to try and gain any marketshare or wait and lose even more marketshare. Dollars and cents answer would be to grab the tech available and ensure the code base is there for future updating. Heck, every smartphone manufacturer does this...save from sony and the whole x10 snaffoo, but even now sony is creating a phone based on gingerbread. Bravo for once sony!

The dual cores were available for purchase already this year..the newer 2nd gen snapdragons were available last year..they just cost more..manufacturers though choose to buy whatever gives them competitive performance for cheapest price to widen their profit margins...To be fair unlike Android M$ requires the hardware to be certified and optimized for before implementing it..so a dual core may be pushing it..BUT they really have no excuse for not releasing a 2nd gen 1ghz snapdragon similar to the one in the mytouch 4g..the processor as been out for over a year..and there really is no excuse..

Now I concede that point. It is very true that microsoft could've got the second gen snapdragon single core. But then I have to wonder about cost...and in that alienation of OEMs that are hanging on microsoft by a thin thread. I think the old snapdragon route was a good one imho and surprisingly is performing quite well especially with regard to gaming and ui experience. I'll get to the mt4g soon though.

It wasn't silly..people were looking at HTC Gold..and since HD2 came out over a year ago who would expect M$ to go with more of the same?

Slowly raises hand. We all knew the hd2 was the prototype device for wp7 as well as the TG01. Could've seen as far as the sun is yellow that microsoft was going with snapdragon based devices. HTC HD2 shined when it became the proverbial hit as well a capacitive monster that makes tech boys have dreams about...
I contend anyone thinking microsoft was using more than snapdragon ESPECIALLY after CES 2010 is insane and has not paid attention to microsoft one iota.

People thought M$ would work with hardware providers to ensure that they were ahead of the curve

I'm pretty sure they did work with smartphone developers (not carriers sadly). I think in order to make modifications for the core, they had honestly no choice but to ensure the hardware companies matched all specifications to make a unified product.

CE7? you mean CE6...

No I mean CE7
Windows Phone 7 is based on Win CE 7
CE6 or CE7? [Archive] - xda-developers
trust if it was ce 6.0, a port of wp7 (even early beta on hd2) wouldn't be possible. Ask cotulla sometime, pretty insightful stuff. Or Da_G who always said CE7 from day one
Regardless CE7 has a lot of nice goodies that has support for a lot of nice things. I MEAN A LOT OF NICE THINGS...like really REALLY NICE THINGS for mobile and tablet platforms

Carriers still control updates :/

Carriers (TMO e.g) or OEMS (like samsung)? The latter I can see in some ways after looking at the new wp7 samsung update bringing in some stability to camera and other hw that is sorta needed (battery tweaks please!!!) but carriers...not too sure...
It's tough to say how microsoft will do this honestly but I always thought it was using an apple paradigm we download install backup done

as for Qualcomm..they have good processors..the problem is either they price them too high, have too much licensing on every little tech(HTC drivers anyone?)..or manufacturers are being too cheap and trying to cut corners or up their profit margins

Oh god don't get me started on HTC! I mean the best part of wp7 means that HTC can't cut corners and release the hot dog parts of phones and call them new. 3 gens of mytouch (save from the mt4g) have all been hot dogs of crap parts that HTC couldn't sell and rebrand as a new phone and try and milk cash from people. That's been HTC for a while. I won't lie (touch pro v tp2 anyone)

Samsung on the other hand produces their own processors and other hardware so they dont have to pay the middleman fees and put it in their devices cost effectively..

I'll say again I've always liked samsung processors and devices. But htc has the hackability. So that meant if I want to go REALLY low in kernel I have to use htc. And because the current dev tools barely support samsung (lg and dell still has zero support), the hands are tied =(