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Old 11-04-2007, 10:20 AM
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Thumbs up Sprint Class Action Legal Action

I have started talks with a legal firm about the possibility of starting a Class Action case. I feel that Sprint has taken its time on addressing the issues around the PPC 6800 with Bluetooth and Memory leaks. For those that are not aware the Bluetooth on the Sprint Phones is a stripped down version that is found on most to all other carriers. Sprints main reason for this is to stop people from transferring Music files or files downloaded from the Sprint Store. So this post is to start getting feedback and a place to post a link when I have one for people that want to join in on the case.

If this is not a post that should be on this site sorry to the admin in advance.

11/5/2007 4:11 PM

Let me clear the air just a little here for those that need to have a more detailed and informed view of this situation.
1) Yes, Microsoft makes and supplies the full ROM image to UTStarcom.
2)UTStarcom then makes the changes to the ROM as HTC and Sprint (or any other carrier) has instructed them to do. In the case of the current Sprints ROM image, all ability to transfer files from one Bluetooth device to another has been removed. In short 1/3 of the Bluetooth stack has either been removed and/or disabled. If you check the Original WM6 ROM Image, that I have a copy of you would see that there are several files and settings are missing. But when you check the ROM images of a few of the other carriers the files are still there and working on the same HTC model of phone.

3) Before a ROM image is to be released it must pass from UTStarcom to HTC for testing and then on to Sprint before it is to be posted or made available to the public.

So with all of that Said, Yes a Law Firm has been contacted. The Firm is located in Oklahoma City, OK. This thread was not to as someone put it “sad attempt to get people riled up”. Also I did not buy my phone from HTC, It came from Sprint. Thus Sprint is my vendor or company that I take the issue up with. If they choose to take the matter up with HTC that is there issue. Also there is no court in the land that will uphold a contract that will not allow its customer to file a “good faith” suit agents Sprint.

The Bluetooth is stripped down from Sprint, The above information was gathered from several contacts at Sprint Corp, HTC Tear 3 Support, Microsoft Mobile Engineering group and Sprint Device Testing and Development group.

I have spent the last two weeks on this matter, and yes I can change and go to another carrier. The problem that I have with this is as follows.

1) Sprint Advertized these phone with Sprint TV, and until just a short while ago that was not the case and only from sites like this can you get the file. I don’t see Sprint sending me an update or the files on a disk.
2) Bluetooth head sets are the major bitch here. This phone is now BT v2.0 and Still all the Bluetooth headsets that Sprint sells in its stores will not work on any current Mogul Phone for a prolong period of time. If you have one that is working 100% Good for you.
3) The product is not living up to what Sprint said it would do, via there advertisements or documentation.
4)I have had my phone now for Three months and would hope that any company would not let its customer dangle in the wind with these issues for 6 or 7 months before getting them a fix.

And for those that do not know this, I support over 1200 of HTC’s devices and this is the only one that has the above mentioned problems.

Last edited by jimeverett; 11-05-2007 at 06:51 PM. Reason: UPDATED
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:37 AM
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So first everyone complains to Sprint because they decided to hold off on the Mogul until October to fix issues they knew were in it. Everyone complains so much that they release it early to appease the masses and fix the issues along the way. Most are relatively happy with it, but there are still issues with it so they release 2 ROM updates in a short period to try and fix it. They realize the 2nd ROM has issues and rather than leave it out there they take it down. They are currently working on another release to fix the issues.

How exactly is Sprint not catering to the requests of their users here? A class action lawsuit might be the right way to go somewhere down the road, but its definitely not needed yet.

You know you also have other ROM options outside of Sprint if you need to fix these issues now. There are custom ROMs out now with WM5. As you should know with all your research, WM5 handles memory differently than WM6. In addition, users have reported that bluetooth works well too. You could flash to the 1.4 or 1.32 radio with the 2.16 ROM which others have reported to fix many of the problems.

You could also have Sprint give you a different phone. They will offer you a 700wx, a 755p or maybe even a Vogue/Touch if that style works for you. There are so many avenues for you to follow rather than just go suing people.
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:40 AM
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Smile /agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by stroths View Post
So first everyone complains to Sprint because they decided to hold off on the Mogul until October to fix issues they knew were in it. Everyone complains so much that they release it early to appease the masses and fix the issues along the way. Most are relatively happy with it, but there are still issues with it so they release 2 ROM updates in a short period to try and fix it. They realize the 2nd ROM has issues and rather than leave it out there they take it down. They are currently working on another release to fix the issues.

How exactly is Sprint not catering to the requests of their users here? A class action lawsuit might be the right way to go somewhere down the road, but its definitely not needed yet.

You know you also have other ROM options outside of Sprint if you need to fix these issues now. There are custom ROMs out now with WM5. As you should know with all your research, WM5 handles memory differently than WM6. In addition, users have reported that bluetooth works well too. You could flash to the 1.4 or 1.32 radio with the 2.16 ROM which others have reported to fix many of the problems.

You could also have Sprint give you a different phone. They will offer you a 700wx, a 755p or maybe even a Vogue/Touch if that style works for you. There are so many avenues for you to follow rather than just go suing people.
/agree, lets give them time to work out the issues since there was such a great clamor and gnashing of teeth to get it released.
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Old 11-04-2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimeverett View Post
I have started talks with a legal firm about the possibility of starting a Class Action case. I feel that Sprint has taken its time on addressing the issues around the PPC 6800 with Bluetooth and Memory leaks. For those that are not aware the Bluetooth on the Sprint Phones is a stripped down version that is found on most to all other carriers. Sprints main reason for this is to stop people from transferring Music files or files downloaded from the Sprint Store. So this post is to start getting feedback and a place to post a link when I have one for people that want to join in on the case.

If this is not a post that should be on this site sorry to the admin in advance.
Why?

Sprint is swapping phones for people who ask - there are numerous examples on several sites over the last few days.

Kinda hard to sue them to do what they're already doing (albeit on a case by case basis, and you have to ask).
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stroths View Post
So first everyone complains to Sprint because they decided to hold off on the Mogul until October to fix issues they knew were in it. Everyone complains so much that they release it early to appease the masses and fix the issues along the way. Most are relatively happy with it, but there are still issues with it so they release 2 ROM updates in a short period to try and fix it. They realize the 2nd ROM has issues and rather than leave it out there they take it down. They are currently working on another release to fix the issues.

How exactly is Sprint not catering to the requests of their users here? A class action lawsuit might be the right way to go somewhere down the road, but its definitely not needed yet.

You know you also have other ROM options outside of Sprint if you need to fix these issues now. There are custom ROMs out now with WM5. As you should know with all your research, WM5 handles memory differently than WM6. In addition, users have reported that bluetooth works well too. You could flash to the 1.4 or 1.32 radio with the 2.16 ROM which others have reported to fix many of the problems.

You could also have Sprint give you a different phone. They will offer you a 700wx, a 755p or maybe even a Vogue/Touch if that style works for you. There are so many avenues for you to follow rather than just go suing people.
The point here is that using 'custom' roms, as many of us do, is that they are not legitimate options for people who expect sprint to honor warranty issues. Sprint frowns on using roms that are not licensed. (You will note you get an OEM licensce with the purchase of the phone.)

Selling a phone that lists one of it's features - Bluetooth wireless headset. And it functions poorly because of a software issue lies solely on Sprints door. Given that the phone lists for about ~$500.00 this is bad. (Anyone remember Apple giving $100 back and reducing the price of the iPhone b/c people were not satisfied with it?) As another has said, Sprint has taken the software issue as it's own responsibility.

BTW. I had a 700wx and it's bluetooth would also disconnect (almost the same as this phone does) at least 3 times a day.

I don't think a class action lawsuit is the answer, but I believe Sprint should spend more time on fixing the 2.16 ROM right now as a band-aid to a fully tested (2-3 month test period) ROM to appease it's customers whom, more often than most, have to Hard-Reset thier phones everytime a ROM comes out.

-Sonny
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimeverett View Post
I have started talks with a legal firm about the possibility of starting a Class Action case. I feel that Sprint has taken its time on addressing the issues around the PPC 6800 with Bluetooth and Memory leaks. For those that are not aware the Bluetooth on the Sprint Phones is a stripped down version that is found on most to all other carriers. Sprints main reason for this is to stop people from transferring Music files or files downloaded from the Sprint Store. So this post is to start getting feedback and a place to post a link when I have one for people that want to join in on the case.

If this is not a post that should be on this site sorry to the admin in advance.
WTF?!

THAT's the problem you're having with bluetooth? You think they CRIPPLED IT???
HAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahaha
good luck with your law suit, man.

I'd tell you "don't let the door hit you on the way out", but, well, I'm not THAT mean. And I'd feel bad if you sink money into hiring lawyers only to be hit with a sudden realization that you don't have anyone backing you up.

Let me explain: BT transfers are one of the few things that WORK FINE on this phone! I've actually dropped some mp3's to/from my PC using bluetooth, and the sprint store has DRM protection on their music anyway, so your logic is totally flawed.
The bluetooth problem everyone has been addressing here has to do with the poor audio quality during a phone call, in other words using a wireless headset was almost impossible. As far as I know, NO ONE HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT CRIPPLED BT STACKS. Unlike certain other CDMA carriers...

Now, as far as the "memory leak", its been discussed so many times I think I might vomit. It's a "feature" of WM6... it may eat up memory and hold on to it for too long before releasing it, but this is due to a memory cache that actually speeds up performance of the device. Its not sprint's "fault", and many here have come to realize that it isn't even anyone's fault at all. There is a way to adjust some of the cache size by editing the binary in the rom before flashing it, however the result is a much more sluggish device.

In other words, that "leak" needs to be there for better performance!


Now, that's not to say there's no reason for a class legal action case... I just think you've got the wrong reasons.
There are some folks on BuzzAboutWirless and HowardForums who have been discussing a more suitable case:
Misrepresentation/False Advertising.

Basically, many people bought the device because it was advertised as GPS capable and EVDO Rev A capable, only to find that neither of these are supported.
They have promised that Rev A will be released in a future update, but 2 updates later we still don't have anything to show for it. Many are still banking on the empty promise of "one day soon".

GPS was later pulled from the devices description, implying that for at least THAT one, there is no planned support.
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:21 AM
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Class Action Case? My $0.02

I too do not believe a class action suit is the way to go either. like a previous poster mentioned. Sprint is replacing phones if you ask with legitimate reasons. If the Mogul is an absolute must have for you, then I would suggest waiting until the next ROM release before jumping off the bridge. HTC/Sprint realizes there is a problem and has admitted to such, if you want a well put together ROM then give them until "early 2008", when it should be released (so I heard).

It's far better to wait a few months for a working ROM than them rushing into another one that jacks up more than it corrects!

Flashing back to ROM 2.09 has been the best solution for me and the BT isn't that bad. Besides, who buys Music from the Music Store? I mean really!

Just my $0.02
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:33 AM
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Class Action?

The bottom line here is as a consumer we have the right to patronize any manufacture that we so desire, and if along the way we get poor service or a bad product, we reserve the right to continue or discontinue our patronage of these companies that market products to us. I dont think that Sprint stands on a unique platform here as the demand for better and more innovative celluar products reaches a point of no return, as you can see all of the major carriers have various issues related to ROMs and the like. So I make that point to say this, it's like the local grocer that gets request for products from his customers, and never delivers. I dont think this is the case with Sprint. Some measures have been taken to fix many of these issues, but a class action lawsuit over a product that we all independantly and voluntarily purchased is over the top. We have the freedom to change carriers as we so desire.
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Old 11-04-2007, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaqdymun View Post

It's far better to wait a few months for a working ROM than them rushing into another one that jacks up more than it corrects!

Flashing back to ROM 2.09 has been the best solution for me and the BT isn'y that bad. Besides, who buys Music from the Music Store? I mean really!

Just my $0.02
I agree with you I went back to 2.09 and only have few important programs running 26-28mb free ram and no problem here

and I know when they release the official new ROM its gonna fix all this problem so its better to wait. I would never switch my Mogul with Vogue or Treo
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:05 PM
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If there are major flaws with a product that a company comes out with then they should contact the buyers (and they know who all the owners are) and recall the product or fix it immediately and not make the buyers wait 3-4 months. If it was just a couple of one offs then it's not a major flaw but this is for all mogul with these issues. If a car maunufacturer knew of a problem with their car they send out a notice to the owners to bring it in for repairs. I know this as I have received several notice to fix my alternator which I still have not brought in yet but that my choice. At least they contacted me. I know the analogy between a car and a mogul is a big difference as one can cause a life if not repaired but it seems that Sprint is well aware of the problem as they are willing to give replacement phone for free if you call an complain. One should not have to do that. Sprint should contact all buyers on their own. I have not receive one a peep, notice, call from Sprint to tell me that there are problems with the mogul. I had to find out by reading these great forums. A class action suit is not just to get the phone itself replaced/fix but to put the company or any company on notice that this type of business model is not acceptable by the public. The publicity itself will help all sprint users.

Last edited by kcaegis45; 11-04-2007 at 12:09 PM.
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