Titanium or Manila...?

[Asphyx]

OK Lets take program A (Manila) and Program B (Titanium)

Both use the same exact screen so Hardware refresh is EXACTLY the same! Unless you claim Titanium doesn't refresh as often which is saying Titanium is sluggish!

Both use the same CPU! CPU is a constant UNLESS you say Titanium does less If so Advantage Manila!

Both use the same data circuits to get data. Same amount of power to get your email and web pages and texts as Titanium! If you claim TF3D updates more then again advantage Manila it is doing more and more frequently but this is definitly not true!

Manila might use more ram but all the ram in the unit uses the same amount of power despite how the bits are organized! So thats also a wash...

Does Manila use more CPU cycles when idle? PROVE IT!
Does Titanium use less? PROVE IT!
Does 6.5 OS itself use less? Post the voltages and PROVE IT!

I have said all I'm going to say...You like less using the same amount of power as more feel free!
I Certainly don't care how many times you need to reset your device to do anything usefull!

[Matchstick]

I'm using Titanium at the moment. But I switch back and forth a lot.

krohnjw vs Asphyx

Hmm...I would definitely go with krohnjw. Just cause they use the same CPU doesn't mean they are using it in the same way

That's like me saying Crysis uses my computer's hardware the same as Oregon Trail

[WorldWide]

I haven't used TF3D in months only because the weather isn't as detailed as titanium weather. I'm a weather junkie.

[krohnjw]

Originally Posted by Asphyx

OK Lets take program A (Manila) and Program B (Titanium)

Both use the same exact screen so Hardware refresh is EXACTLY the same! Unless you claim Titanium doesn't refresh as often which is saying Titanium is sluggish!

Both use the same CPU! CPU is a constant UNLESS you say Titanium does less If so Advantage Manila!

Both use the same data circuits to get data. Same amount of power to get your email and web pages and texts as Titanium! If you claim TF3D updates more then again advantage Manila it is doing more and more frequently but this is definitly not true!

Manila might use more ram but all the ram in the unit uses the same amount of power despite how the bits are organized! So thats also a wash...

Does Manila use more CPU cycles when idle? PROVE IT!
Does Titanium use less? PROVE IT!
Does 6.5 OS itself use less? Post the voltages and PROVE IT!

I have said all I'm going to say...You like less using the same amount of power as more feel free!
I Certainly don't care how many times you need to reset your device to do anything usefull!

OK Lets take program A (Manila) and Program B (Titanium)

Both use the same exact screen so Hardware refresh is EXACTLY the same! Unless you claim Titanium doesn't refresh as often which is saying Titanium is sluggish!

This is not necessarily correct. The application itself will define how often it redraws and how it redraws. How it redraws is just as important as how often. The complexity of the interface will also require more geometry to be drawn and hence more cycles used.

Both use the same CPU! CPU is a constant UNLESS you say Titanium does less If so Advantage Manila!

Also not correct. Titanium runs as a WM plugin. TF3D loads manilla on top of the today screen. The fact that the CPU is used is a constant fact - the amount of CPU cycles used will depend on the op code rendered for each binary though. The fact of the matter is that manilla is a separate application loaded on top of the today screen. The 2 do not use the same amount of CPU cycles and the 2 definitely do not draw the same interface. Even if the 2 use a shared windows graphic library to do the geometric drawing a more complex interface by definition will require more shapes to be drawn and as a result more operations to complete. The CPU time used is NOT the same and the number of CPU cycles used as a result is not the same.

Originally Posted by brushrop03

That's like me saying Crysis uses my computer's hardware the same as Oregon Trail

Yes this is the same thing - or you could even use 2 of the same generation games or any 2 applications for that matter. Even if the output is the same the *way* that the code is written defines the op code generated by the compiler. Poor code will result in FAR more op codes being generated to do the same task than efficient code. While more intricate geometric interfaces will require more processing in the same manner.

Here's a quick example as hyberbolic as it may be:

int i=0;
i=5;

int i=0;
for (int j=0; j<=5; j++) {
i=j;
}

Both will do the same thing and that is set i = 5 once the code terminates. However one requires ~3 lines of machine code while the other will require over 20 lines of machine code. Now the 2nd example is clearly highly inefficient but it is used to illustrate that any 2 programs even doing the same task do NOT do the same amount of work to accomplish that task.

It appears there is a fundamental lack of understanding here on how the software actually uses the CPU and various peripheral devices - especially with the rendering of graphical interfaces and how each call translates into the op codes that actually do the work. If you do not want to believe this that is fine but it's not anything I've invented (if it were I'd have a promising consultancy career ahead of me!).

I am not claiming that Titanium is way more efficient than TF3D nor have I ever. I stated a single case (mine) where I saw worse battery life with TF3D and even qualified that statement with:

Whether or not it's a TF3D configuration issue is quite debatable (TF3D doesn't offer me anything of use that warrants trying it any longer)

If you want to take this as an "OMG EVERYONE SHOULD BE ON 6.5 WITH TITANIUM!!!!!!" then feel free - but if you take the time to actually read what was written that's clearly not the intent or the case.

My responses are only due to address the "making up stories" accusation, the "So lets not put out false info here... " statement and to demonstrate that your claims that any 2 pieces of software use the same power is a false claim.

Feel free to respond with anything you feel is incorrect here but we are getting a bit OT at this point.

Originally Posted by krohnjw

Here's a quick example as hyberbolic as it may be:

int i=0;
i=5;

int i=0;
for (int j=0; j<=5; j++) {
i=j;
}

Both will do the same thing and that is set i = 5 once the code terminates. However one requires ~3 lines of machine code while the other will require over 20 lines of machine code. Now the 2nd example is clearly highly inefficient but it is used to illustrate that any 2 programs even doing the same task do NOT do the same amount of work to accomplish that task.

It appears there is a fundamental lack of understanding here on how the software actually uses the CPU and various peripheral devices - especially with the rendering of graphical interfaces and how each call translates into the op codes that actually do the work. If you do not want to believe this that is fine but it's not anything I've invented (if it were I'd have a promising consultancy career ahead of me!).

Indeed =D>

[moovius]

TF3D is the most useless interface I have ever used on a WM phone. It doesn't make anything faster or more accessible, it just hogs resources and looks shiny.

Titanium isn't much better than TF3D. I have been trying out Titanium just because it "looks" better than the standard home screen (which is the same in 6.1 and 6.5), but the function side of me prefers just a standard home screen for speed and accessibility to information.

All of this stuff is just "lipstick on a pig" (pig = Windows Mobile OS) and doesn't bring this phone anywhere near the fluid and hassle free interface of the iPhone. We have all this potential in the TP, but the WM OS coughs, sputters and freezes so much (doesn't matter how clean a rom you have, it sucks) it's laughable.

Seriously... how many of you guys/gals are whipping out your TPs in front of friends who own an iPhone and trying to show off? Not many, unless you are a masochist.

iPhone dude: Hey look at this new applet I got
TP dude: Oh yeah? Check this out!
TP dude: *fumbles around with phone*
TP dude: Hmmm... just a second. *resets phone*
2 minutes later
TP dude: Ok man, check this out!
TP dude: Wait... it's not done loading yet.
iPhone dude: Wow! That's great man! Hey, I gotta ... ... go ... some ... where ... else. Later!
TP dude: WHY DOESN'T THE WORLD ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUPERIORITY OF MY PHONE!!!
TP dude: *resets phone*

Originally Posted by moovius

TF3D is the most useless interface I have ever used on a WM phone. It doesn't make anything faster or more accessible, it just hogs resources and looks shiny.

Titanium isn't much better than TF3D. I have been trying out Titanium just because it "looks" better than the standard home screen (which is the same in 6.1 and 6.5), but the function side of me prefers just a standard home screen for speed and accessibility to information.

All of this stuff is just "lipstick on a pig" (pig = Windows Mobile OS) and doesn't bring this phone anywhere near the fluid and hassle free interface of the iPhone. We have all this potential in the TP, but the WM OS coughs, sputters and freezes so much (doesn't matter how clean a rom you have, it sucks) it's laughable.

Seriously... how many of you guys/gals are whipping out your TPs in front of friends who own an iPhone and trying to show off? Not many, unless you are a masochist.

iPhone dude: Hey look at this new applet I got
TP dude: Oh yeah? Check this out!
TP dude: *fumbles around with phone*
TP dude: Hmmm... just a second. *resets phone*
2 minutes later
TP dude: Ok man, check this out!
TP dude: Wait... it's not done loading yet.
iPhone dude: Wow! That's great man! Hey, I gotta ... ... go ... some ... where ... else. Later!
TP dude: WHY DOESN'T THE WORLD ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUPERIORITY OF MY PHONE!!!
TP dude: *resets phone*

I would have to disagree with u. TF3D offers alot of info on its home screen alone. That being the clock and calendar. Then a couple of scrolls and you can see your text, emails, and even stock and weather

I agree, WinMo needs to be refined, but the reason its not that great is because its not optimized for one single phone like Iphone's OS is. MS has to please alot of different types of WinMo phones' hardware. And then you deal with the crap ROMs the service providers load up on the phone making it worst (which is why we turn to our custom ROMs).

But that is to change with WinMo 7 when there will be hardware requirements to run it.

[iviyth0s]

Originally Posted by moovius

TF3D is the most useless interface I have ever used on a WM phone. It doesn't make anything faster or more accessible, it just hogs resources and looks shiny.

Titanium isn't much better than TF3D. I have been trying out Titanium just because it "looks" better than the standard home screen (which is the same in 6.1 and 6.5), but the function side of me prefers just a standard home screen for speed and accessibility to information.

All of this stuff is just "lipstick on a pig" (pig = Windows Mobile OS) and doesn't bring this phone anywhere near the fluid and hassle free interface of the iPhone. We have all this potential in the TP, but the WM OS coughs, sputters and freezes so much (doesn't matter how clean a rom you have, it sucks) it's laughable.

Seriously... how many of you guys/gals are whipping out your TPs in front of friends who own an iPhone and trying to show off? Not many, unless you are a masochist.

iPhone dude: Hey look at this new applet I got
TP dude: Oh yeah? Check this out!
TP dude: *fumbles around with phone*
TP dude: Hmmm... just a second. *resets phone*
2 minutes later
TP dude: Ok man, check this out!
TP dude: Wait... it's not done loading yet.
iPhone dude: Wow! That's great man! Hey, I gotta ... ... go ... some ... where ... else. Later!
TP dude: WHY DOESN'T THE WORLD ACKNOWLEDGE THE SUPERIORITY OF MY PHONE!!!
TP dude: *resets phone*

lol TF3D is no slower than the Iphone's interface. I've eliminated all tabs down to the "Today", "Messages", "Programs", "Settings", and "Weather".
It sounds like you might need a new ROM loaded on there because I never need to reset that often. I have alot available on my Touch Pro to put an Iphone to shame.

(oh and regarding the actual thread, I haven't truly given Titanium long enough to get used to it so for now I'm a lover of Manilla)

[moovius]

Originally Posted by iviyth0s

lol TF3D is no slower than the Iphone's interface. I've eliminated all tabs down to the "Today", "Messages", "Programs", "Settings", and "Weather".
It sounds like you might need a new ROM loaded on there because I never need to reset that often. I have alot available on my Touch Pro to put an Iphone to shame.

I have one of the fastest WM6.5 roms available: Dcd's 2.06. WM is a dog no matter what phone it's on. It's just a more tolerable dog when you have everything tweaked out, reduxed, and have fewer programs installed.

Also, you had to tweak your phone down to match the speed of the iPhone (which if you actually had an iPhone next to your phone, you'd see the difference right off and realize there was still a performance difference).

Make some YouTube videos of you putting iPhones to shame. Show off your 3 frames-per-sec video, load up 6 or more programs and start talking in a slower/lower voice so they don't notice the molasses-in-january response of the OS, and impress them with your "I never need to reset that often" declarations.

Rest assured, Apple would gladly put your YouTube videos on their main website.