Alltel/Verizon TP2

[wesscoggin]

Originally Posted by Noir

for one thing, what the company considers a restriction for offering for a service (ie tethering) I don't really consider that a gimp. Especially when you consider the xv6800. Prior to even the new radio 3.35 and 3.42, both the xv6800 and the xv6900 (on even sprint as well) did not offer gps on the device and prior to last summer/spring while we knew that it was capable it wasn't unlocked. Now this begs to question was this the result of htc and the specific phone vendors? Tough to say...

But the capability in both of your instances wasn't removed. It was locked and that is carrier specific. Not necessarily a gimp considering you arguing that it is a removal of capabilities on either a software/hardware specific. It wasn't removed, it was locked and in my eyes that is a totally different bag of tea.

While verizon chose to lock those capabilities for a fee, it was a business decision to be frank because not all consumers are power users that will hack slash, tweak modify their devices. They want now and so far with the exception of winmo users (as well as mobile-file users) it has benefitted verizon economically. So the strategy in those locks so to speak were financial. But it didn't mean it was removed from the device (gimp) because if that was the case

it wouldn't necessarily be there to begin with (much like ram on the touch pro/diamond) - it wasn't there but the examples you listed the capability was there, it was just locked down by the phone company and that happens all the time. And it exists with every phone company and most phones as well...so by that logic yes practically every company gimps their devices because

I am using an alltel, verizon, and sprint touch pro and I don't see a front face camera on mine do you? That is something specific for the initial device and it was removed (gimp) based on specifications of the phone company (heck we don't have the tech for video calls).

So again...
can we really say vzw will gimp (hardware restrict whatever) when we have no proof of it happening except touch pro/diamond 1?

Evidently your definition of the word gimp is completely different than what I consider a gimp. The impetuous for everything at Verizon is economics. What drives all decisions about included or omitted software and hardware is Verizon's opinion on what they can or can't sell for a profit. Whatever you or I identify as a "gimp" doesn't change the fact that the decisions, weather to include or omit certain hardware or add or delete capabilities through software, are all based on the same influences.

I would argue that a software gimp is just as valid as a hardware gimp, if not more maddening because they are just trying to milk the masses out of their money because the masses won't/can't do anything about it. Hardware gimps can be directly linked to production and manufacturing cost based analysis. What costs more about using the capabilities already built into a phone?

I would say that the recent Hardware Gimping is just the natural growth from software gimping, thus defining a pattern. As for proof that they will gimp or not gimp the TP2, all we have is patterns. You are correct in your assertion that the hardware has been the same or comparable up until this generation of PPC, however I would argue it's a pattern that began with software gimping. I would also say that this has been Verizon's attitude about the equipment they sell for a very long time, and is now made worse by the fact that they stopped adding other carrier’s equipment to their network. (another indication that they will continue to consider forcing people to buy their peripheral software and equipment). They do because they can.

[redd214]

Originally Posted by wesscoggin

Evidently your definition of the word gimp is completely different than what I consider a gimp. The impetuous for everything at Verizon is economics. What drives all decisions about included or omitted software and hardware is Verizon's opinion on what they can or can't sell for a profit. Whatever you or I identify as a "gimp" doesn't change the fact that the decisions, weather to include or omit certain hardware or add or delete capabilities through software, are all based on the same influences.

I would argue that a software gimp is just as valid as a hardware gimp, if not more maddening because they are just trying to milk the masses out of their money because the masses won't/can't do anything about it. Hardware gimps can be directly linked to production and manufacturing cost based analysis. What costs more about using the capabilities already built into a phone?

I would say that the recent Hardware Gimping is just the natural growth from software gimping, thus defining a pattern. As for proof that they will gimp or not gimp the TP2, all we have is patterns. You are correct in your assertion that the hardware has been the same or comparable up until this generation of PPC, however I would argue it's a pattern that began with software gimping. I would also say that this has been Verizon's attitude about the equipment they sell for a very long time, and is now made worse by the fact that they stopped adding other carrier’s equipment to their network. (another indication that they will continue to consider forcing people to buy their peripheral software and equipment). They do because they can.

i have a verizon tp, i cant stand the fact that they "gimped" (whatever your definition is) the touch pro however, first and foremost verizon is a business just as noir stated. i own a business and while i will say that i love the work that we do for people in the community, BUT the main reason i went into business for myself was to make money. as u yourself said thats verizon's main focus as it should be. our community is the minority of phone users, they arent catering to us for the most part.

its obvious that people are paying for these services so coming stricly from a business standpoint why would they stop?? if you ran verizon would u??

like i said coming from a consumer standpoint it sucks, but looking at it thru their perspective it makes perfect sense to me.

just my 2 cents...

[codybear]

Originally Posted by razorloves

gps unlocked rom was released a little over 2 weeks ago
http://pcdphones.com/phone_downloads...zon%20Wireless

woopsies. my bad.
I personally don't have verizon, so I had no idea it was released!
Thanks for that info though,
good to know!!

Originally Posted by helix139

I could care less what they do through software as that can be fixed. As long as the hardware specs are identical I will get one. If not, then see ya Verizon.

yeah, I personally consider hardware stuff gimping, not really software.
so I agree with ya.
but highly doubt verizon won't gimp it.
just sayin, they did it to the diamond, (only good thing was adding sdcard, otherwise they really made it just a hair, and i do mean a hair, bit better than the vogue.), did it to the touch pro, and will continue to keep doing so.
those are the only two I know of off the top of my head,
as those are the most commonly talked about ones, but I'm sure there are others.

Originally Posted by Noir

for one thing, what the company considers a restriction for offering for a service (ie tethering) I don't really consider that a gimp. Especially when you consider the xv6800. Prior to even the new radio 3.35 and 3.42, both the xv6800 and the xv6900 (on even sprint as well) did not offer gps on the device and prior to last summer/spring while we knew that it was capable it wasn't unlocked. Now this begs to question was this the result of htc and the specific phone vendors? Tough to say...

But the capability in both of your instances wasn't removed. It was locked and that is carrier specific. Not necessarily a gimp considering you arguing that it is a removal of capabilities on either a software/hardware specific. It wasn't removed, it was locked and in my eyes that is a totally different bag of tea.

While verizon chose to lock those capabilities for a fee, it was a business decision to be frank because not all consumers are power users that will hack slash, tweak modify their devices. They want now and so far with the exception of winmo users (as well as mobile-file users) it has benefitted verizon economically. So the strategy in those locks so to speak were financial. But it didn't mean it was removed from the device (gimp) because if that was the case

it wouldn't necessarily be there to begin with (much like ram on the touch pro/diamond) - it wasn't there but the examples you listed the capability was there, it was just locked down by the phone company and that happens all the time. And it exists with every phone company and most phones as well...so by that logic yes practically every company gimps their devices because

I am using an alltel, verizon, and sprint touch pro and I don't see a front face camera on mine do you? That is something specific for the initial device and it was removed (gimp) based on specifications of the phone company (heck we don't have the tech for video calls).

So again...
can we really say vzw will gimp (hardware restrict whatever) when we have no proof of it happening except touch pro/diamond 1?

Originally Posted by redd214

i have a verizon tp, i cant stand the fact that they "gimped" (whatever your definition is) the touch pro however, first and foremost verizon is a business just as noir stated. i own a business and while i will say that i love the work that we do for people in the community, BUT the main reason i went into business for myself was to make money. as u yourself said thats verizon's main focus as it should be. our community is the minority of phone users, they arent catering to us for the most part.

its obvious that people are paying for these services so coming stricly from a business standpoint why would they stop?? if you ran verizon would u??

like i said coming from a consumer standpoint it sucks, but looking at it thru their perspective it makes perfect sense to me.

just my 2 cents...

yeah, from a business standpoint its good.
from consumer standpoint, it sucks.
For all the non-tech people, or the non-flashers,
its gotta suck to have verizon. haha.
But that's what you get for getting a smartphone
and not knowing how to mod/tweak it to work better. haha

[redd214]

exactly, its their punishment for ignorance lol!!

[wesscoggin]

I wasn't debating the ethics. I was just saying that past actions (weather it's defined as gimping on this forum or not) lead me to believe that they will infact alter the TP2 to benifit them as they have other phones in the past. Gimping of the TP1 hasn't slowed the sales. The TP1, in my oppinion is the best handset they offer at the moment. The closing of the loophole that allowed other carier's equipment to work on their network is a way to enforce their business strategy. I am not passing judgement (well only a little :P) on Verizon's business strategy.

[santod]

It’s pretty apparent that there will be an HTC Touch Pro2 in your own carrier’s flavor pretty soon. In the U.S. alone, just from leaked photos and information floating around, T-Mobile, AT&T, Sprint and Verizon will all get their own version of the device. What’s even better is that they will all be roughly the same. The keyboards won’t range from usable to ???? (cough, Touch Pro, cough) and we have a feeling the physical exterior will be pretty close to the stock HTC units as well.