Data Plan Required

[boggsie]

Originally Posted by jmorton10

By the way, I know a VZ tech & he told me one of the main reasons VZ started requiring a data package on all PPCs was they got sick & tired of answering tech calls from people that just got an $1800 cell bill & where absolutely POSITIVE they had not used any data on something like their xv6800............

~John

That's an entirely possible and probable step that seemed logical from their perspective.

What would have made more sense is if they would have added an option at the account level to turn data off: Period. This would have absolutely resolved the issue you mentioned, but of course it would not have allowed them to funnel folks towards an automatic and mandatory data add on, that presumably includes and additional profit margin for the carrier.

Best regards,
-boggsie

[dtrush]

Originally Posted by jmorton10

By the way, I know a VZ tech & he told me one of the main reasons VZ started requiring a data package on all PPCs was they got sick & tired of answering tech calls from people that just got an $1800 cell bill & where absolutely POSITIVE they had not used any data on something like their xv6800............

~John

That's what I was told by a VZW rep also. I can sympathize with their point honestly as they don't make money by spending rediculous amounts of time fielding calls for these handicapped customers. Those type of people should be the ones REQUIRED to put a data plan on their smartphone. But for those of us who KNOW how to use their phone we shouldn't be required to pay for something we don't NEED.

If Page Plus had unlimited data for $5 or $10 more on the unlimited talk/text I'd certainly find the value in paying for it for those times it would be convienient to open my phone connection for people to use. But $30 + Taxes etc. is a little too much to justify the benefit.

I primarily use my phone for these reasons:

1. PHONE <-- LOTS AND LOTS OF TALKING. Business & personal use!
2. TEXT <-- Nice and convienient to communicate with people and to receive information
3. PDA Functionality. Lots of calendaring, contacts, tasks, planning, etc.....
4. BOOKS. Have a library of books that I use all the time. Nice to have them on demand when I need them! Beats carrying around the paper.
5. GPS (TOM TOM on micro SD). Need to get from customer appointment and from here to there. Very handy. I got my brother a TP2 and now he's donated his 1 year old Garmin to the company. The built in GPS is fantastic.
6. CALCULATOR. Yeah, I know this is stupid, but I use it a lot. Could be considered part of the pda functionality section
7. DATA SERVICES. Weather, looking up a phone number, checking e-mail a couple times per day if needed. Since I don't have the phone setup to get e-mail attachments I don't use a lot of data. I only click on the message if I need to poll it off the server to respond. Better to wait till I get back to the regular computer to type a proper response. (I have yet to go over my 20MB allotment) The connection is always enabled also. Weather and normal functionality and use of the phone doesn't take that much data as I know from experience! Syncing via USB or Bluetooth to your desktop or lappy isn't too bad. How else are you going to charge your phone convieniently when at your desk with a REAL computer and REAL data connection

Bottom line is that Verizon is just trying to make an extra buck off people that want to use a great phone because they can. How come they can't offer me the same plan I get from Page Plus and just include 20MB of data for those "occasional users" such as myself? That would eliminate bunches of phone calls from people who accidentally opened their web browser or felt it necessary to check on something etc. No, that would be to easy right Verizon?

They've lost me as a direct customer because of their policies. I get their service for less than they'd charge for because of stupid reasons.

[WBFAir]

Originally Posted by jmorton10

By the way, I know a VZ tech & he told me one of the main reasons VZ started requiring a data package on all PPCs was they got sick & tired of answering tech calls from people that just got an $1800 cell bill & where absolutely POSITIVE they had not used any data on something like their xv6800............

~John

This actually was the reason Verizon gave to the FCC when they were questioned on this and has always been their saving face argument that a lot fall for but it has not fooled everyone.

Simply put to sell a device and with a plan that does not include a service but that can actually access this service and then blame the user for this has got be one of the biggest crocks yet.

First off as I have said, these devices themselves can so simply be set up to not access that data its not even funny.

It is a no brainer folks.

But even more so if there is anyone to blame for this it’s the carriers, if they design their system to allow something like this to happened and sell and release devices they know will do this to people who do not have this service as part of their plan but don’t know any better and end up doing this without even knowing it, then who’s fault is that?

Not the users.

So why should we have to suffer and pay for this as a result.

But even more offensive is why should the carriers profit from it???

An we all know it would be possible for them to restrict this from their side if they wanted to just like they restrict any service you don’t have in a plan, so why don’t they?

Well then they come back an say, well we need this data connection for behind the scenes updates.

Again another lie.

I myself had the data connection locked off for the entire month I was on the Verizon service and typically have it locked off even now, just as I have described, and have known many many who do the same and did so with other devices and long before it was even mandatory as they had this very thing happen and no one has ever reported any ill effects of this what so ever.

I mean yeah I suppose it could happen but as far as I know other then the Windows Mobile 6.5 update there isn’t anything else that has been updated for this device at all and that was an internet downloaded to a PC to do the update anyway, it wasn’t something you could do over the data connection.

I mean too, just as was described, one the connection is very slow and could you imagine what would happen to this device if it were downloading say a updated radio version via a data connection behind the scenes and without the users permission or knowledge and the user went into the subway for the ride home, or shut it off at night and somehow the whole thing got corrupted and it bricked the phone what that would mean.

Face it, they could never use a data connection for any updating for a whole host of reasons.

And via Microsoft they do not do even little updates or patches for the OS like they do for a PC for these things, in fact every time I have ever even tried the manual device update thing in the phone (and this was back when I had the Verizon data package) it completely failed and I have read this is the way this works for everyone and that no one even cares as there is nothing to update anyway.

An even if the ever did they would have to do it via manual updates that were hardwire connections and done when an where it was able to for a whole bunch of reasons.

Then about the only other thing that can be updated is the *228 thing and other stuff on the cellular side and that is completely on the cellular and phone side as it has always been long before there was even data and has nothing to do with anything else, especially the data connection.

Simply put if the carriers locked of the data ability on their side which they could very easily do, it would mean absolutely nothing to these devices.

Nothing.

But they don’t an then have used that to make the argument to do what they have done.

Kinda calls into question the whole theory that the company is right and the user is wrong doesn’t it.

[sprintgirl]

Originally Posted by WBFAir

With all due respect sprintgirl, this is what I was talking about in my post above.

First of all and this always amazes me but then again, in a way it is is almost self-explanatory why those who post, make these posts, but its just amazing how people will look a this and say, oh its only $29.99 a month…what’s $29.99 a month that’s nothing, don’t be such a cheepy.

Well first of all no has the right to determine what is or is not affordable for someone else, an it’s pretty annoying that they think they do and it’s also pretty annoying for those of us that this is a measurable cost have to end up having to pay this just because there are those out there who think that it isn’t much.

I had a really long argument with someone on the Verizon site about this and came to find out that this person was some 25 year kid who barely had another bill in his life, that I then came to find out actually he had this paid for by the company he worked for too anyway, so yeah for him it was nothing.

But if your anything of a responsible adult an understand the concept of a budget and how that a lot of little costs can really add up and have a tremendous amount of other bills to pay each month and kids to feed and put through collage and so forth and so on but that also get how much a device such as the TP2 can be such a useful or even required thing to do your job to even make that money in the first place, then this becomes a whole nother picture.

An also some of us get that this is not $29.99 per month, and that for the two year contract even if you get the device for $90.00 that it is and extra $750.00 cost over two years for something that you don’t even need, and for some, that is not a small number.

But lastly the way I always respond to this is, for anyone that feels that giving away $29.99 a month for something that you don’t need is no big deal then please, feel free to pay it for me as if this is the way you truly feel, then you shouldn't have a problem with that.

WOW I hope you didnt waste too much time writing this because you know time is money and I know how concerned you are about your budget. I understand money is important...I have supported myself since I was 18 and I pay my own bills and support a disabled adult so if you think I am not adult enough to pay my own bills then you are extremely mistaken. I am just saying you probably spend more than that on home internet anyway...and probably cable tv too. What's funny is that you can get all of those features on your phone and cancel all of the other crap you are paying for. I cancelled my home internet in exchange for data capable smartphones and guess what...I saved money. Like I said, most of the most reasonable phone plans already include data. On sprint you can have two phones with unlimited everything (including data) with 1500 landline minutes for 129.99. Plus you may be eligable for a discount depending on your employer. And I pay for my own phone bill...in case you were about to assume that I didnt.

[sprintgirl]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Surprised at all the thanks people gave to redundant, poorly typed and poorly argued posts.

[jmorton10]

I think the whole argument is silly, 99% of the people buying a phone like a TP2 would buy a data plan whether or not it was required.

Verizon/Sprint whatever could care less about the other 1%.

~John

[dtrush]

Need to pay for internet at home through a stable connection if you intend on being a heavy user such as myself. Comcast gives me a lot of transfer speed and especially quantity of data. Plus, my cable channels come right through which is good enough. It's really a good deal and quality service.

I haven't heard of people getting a good response at running Playstation Network or XBOX Live very successfully over a 3G phone connection or otherwise due to the poor ping factor. Some fellow gamers are pissed when your lag causes problems

[gTen]

well look at it from another perspective:


A) buy a dumbphone, pay for data anyways even though you don't use it anyways

or

B) Get a TP2 with no data and use wifi when you need internet (since the money you save covers for it)

option B doesn't sound too bad if you look at it that way..

[sprintgirl]

Originally Posted by dtrush

Need to pay for internet at home through a stable connection if you intend on being a heavy user such as myself. Comcast gives me a lot of transfer speed and especially quantity of data. Plus, my cable channels come right through which is good enough. It's really a good deal and quality service.

I haven't heard of people getting a good response at running Playstation Network or XBOX Live very successfully over a 3G phone connection or otherwise due to the poor ping factor. Some fellow gamers are pissed when your lag causes problems

FYI: COMCAST BLOWS! They actually asked me to sign a waiver stating that I understand they cannot provide me with better service even though they havent updated the equipment in my area in over a decade but can buy Shaq for commercials. I have NEVER had a problem with my phone as my connection...not unstable at all. 3G and here soon 4G is faster than anyone can offer.

[nrfitchett4]

Originally Posted by frazell

Why would he need to get a feature phone? The Touch Pro 2, as well as both its Touch Pro 1 and Mogul predecessors, ships with a WiFi card in it. I would assume that HTC put this card into the device because some consumers find that to be a valuable feature. Otherwise they could save the money on it and increase their profits...

There is no requirement in Windows Mobile currently for a data plan. You can either disable it on the phone in Phone options or (if it isn't an option there) use one of the ton of "no-data" apps to prevent any app from starting a data connection. Ensuring the phone doesn't get you charged any data fees, ever.

You can't dictate to him that he'll ever need cell powered data services or enough for him to justify paying for it. For all I know, and you as well, he spends the majority of his time on a college campus, at work, and at home. All of which have WiFi connectivity he can make use of. Making his device just as data connected as if he had 3G, without the cost.

Also, I'm not sure why you presume that he should be buying a data plan just because he should be "well off enough". That comment only makes sense when coming from a person who has no concept of proper management of his/her finances...

Hopefully this quote helps you understand my last point...

"Becoming wealthy is not a matter of how much you earn, who your parents are, or what you do.. it is a matter of managing your money properly." - Noel Whittaker

If that didn't get my point across I think this news story will do a better job. It is about a local man who never made more than $11/h in his life and he made multi-million dollar donations to schools in the area.

Only a poor man and a fool wastes his money on things he doesn't need...

The carriers are all doing this for reasons that aren't all that surprising. The people who really (and I mean lots of it) use data on their phones are a very small minority. But they put a lot of strain on the networks and carriers have to make huge investments to keep them chugging along. Mainly because the press constantly talks about their speed and reliability.

As a result, they feel they can keep themselves profitable and make the investments by forcibly spreading the cost. They want to ensure that 100% of the customers are covered so they can have enough to power the 5% and ensure they still get their lovely 40%+ profit margins...

ok, so take away data requirements and go back to .25 min cell phone plans, paying for nights and weekends, no mobile to mobile. this seems like a natural progression for cell phones. more people are using cell phones for more than talking, so the companies are trying to get paid.
it's called capitalism, if you don't like it, you don't have to use their service.

personally, i'm not paying anymore for my plan now, than I was 10 years ago. just pay more for some things, and less for others.