Touch pro 7 (touch pro 3 but rename) EPIC FAIL

[Musicman247]

Instead of posting any facts, you were simply stating your own opinion in a "blog" type fashion. Thus the "cool story, bro" a meme meant to show apathy towards a person's opinion who obviously thinks that theirs should be valued over all others.

I also find it interesting that when I actually did post something relevant (and a pretty darn good fact-based argument at that) it was passed over.

So, "spec haters" anybody decide to take back your judgement until we se an actual working device?

[gTen]

Originally Posted by Musicman247

Instead of posting any facts, you were simply stating your own opinion in a "blog" type fashion. Thus the "cool story, bro" a meme meant to show apathy towards a person's opinion who obviously thinks that theirs should be valued over all others.

why do you assume that they are claiming their opinion is more important then others?

I also find it interesting that when I actually did post something relevant (and a pretty darn good fact-based argument at that) it was passed over.

Can you repeat it again?

So, "spec haters" anybody decide to take back your judgement until we se an actual working device?

We know how good it will be performance wise based on the HD2 port and etc..thats not the issue..but based on that we also know the limitations of the original snapdragon based on devices that exist and overall..those being:

1. Subpar GPU
2. 65nm process
3. Older chipset

Realistically speaking the 800mhz chipset that you see now is better then the current snapdragon...why? because I'm pretty sure it can overclock to the same speeds the current one can while having a better GPU and 45nm process and improved tech.

By having a subpar GPU and M$ policy would mean that games would have to be smooth on these lower end chipsets reducing the quality of the games. By having 65nm process means uses more battery life and worse I/O. Old chipset means not supporting some of the newest features and optimizations.

Here is an example of what new snapdragons bring to the table:


High-performance GPU - up to 41M triangles/sec and 245M 3D pixels/sec and dedicated 3D/2D acceleration engines for Open GLES 2.0 and Open VG 1.1 acceleration

This GPU features dedicated 2D Open VG graphics hardware along with 3D hardware which provides faster, higher-quality 2D rendering, simultaneous use of 2D and 3D, and lower power use.

•Hardware-accelerated SVG and Adobe Flash®
•Significant improvements in shader performance over Adreno 200 GPU
•Streaming textures that can combine video, camera, SVG and other image surfaces with 3D graphics
Supported APIs:

OpenGL ES 2.0, OpenGL ES 1.1, OpenVG 1.1, EGL 1.3, Direct3D Mobile, SVGT 1.2, Direct Draw, GDI. Concurrent CPU, DSP, graphics, and MDP


Also it adds native DivX support and an 8th generation GPS(over a 7th)

[sprinttouch666]

statements like:

Originally Posted by gTen

We know how good it will be performance wise based on the HD2 port

and

Originally Posted by gTen

because I'm pretty sure it can overclock to the same speeds the current one

convince me you don't know what your talking about. Even if you did have benchmarks of wp7 running on an HD2 it wouldn't mean squat because its a port! Moreover, when comparing different processors (like first gen snapdragons to second gen) directly comparing the clock speed to determine the performance is about as accurate as comparing the size of car engines for performance. The second gen's are actually equal the performance of the first gen. You are right however about the gpu's being better, however M$ is providing drivers for WP7 so we wont have to put up with HTC's terrible drivers anymore.

Originally Posted by gTen

By having a subpar GPU and M$ policy would mean that games would have to be smooth on these lower end chipsets reducing the quality of the games.

I simply don't understand why people keep making this point about WP7; considering this bottom line for developers is significantly and undeniably higher than any other smartphone platform including Android and iOS.

But Finally: I'm waiting for the 3rd gen Snapdragons!!! dual core 1.2ghz!!! and 2/3 the power consumption of the first gen!!!!! will be in devices summer 2011!!!

[gTen]

Originally Posted by sprinttouch666

convince me you don't know what your talking about. Even if you did have benchmarks of wp7 running on an HD2 it wouldn't mean squat because its a port! Moreover, when comparing different processors (like first gen snapdragons to second gen) directly comparing the clock speed to determine the performance is about as accurate as comparing the size of car engines for performance. The second gen's are actually equal the performance of the first gen. You are right however about the gpu's being better, however M$ is providing drivers for WP7 so we wont have to put up with HTC's terrible drivers anymore.

I never said the performance of the HD2 is bad...that and as far as other ports such as Android and etc to HD2 its been on par with that of an EVO..so I can't exactly say that a port is a bad indicator...I was actually comparing 800mhz(2nd gen) to 1ghz(1st gen)..there is a 1ghz second gen as well...(and yes I know about the minimum)..and yes WP7 will get drivers which is good BUT it does not change the limitations of the 1st gen chip.

I simply don't understand why people keep making this point about WP7; considering this bottom line for developers is significantly and undeniably higher than any other smartphone platform including Android and iOS.

Gingerbread sets the same bottom line as well for 1ghz...but see here is the issue...if the developers are limited by the processor they will either limit their app to it or ignore it and target higher end devices. Aka I expect 2011 to have the 2nd and 3rd generation snapdragons and other chips....this means that these devices will be already heavily outdated when they are out the door..this is ok for a "medium" entry..but this would not be competitive to a highend entry.

But Finally: I'm waiting for the 3rd gen Snapdragons!!! dual core 1.2ghz!!! and 2/3 the power consumption of the first gen!!!!! will be in devices summer 2011!!!

Glad we agree on something

[[sammich]]

Originally Posted by Musicman247

Instead of posting any facts, you were simply stating your own opinion in a "blog" type fashion. Thus the "cool story, bro" a meme meant to show apathy towards a person's opinion who obviously thinks that theirs should be valued over all others.

That's what we're all doing though, posting opinions. What you're doing is responding to specific posts, which is the point of threads like these.

Originally Posted by Musicman247

I also find it interesting that when I actually did post something relevant (and a pretty darn good fact-based argument at that) it was passed over.

Just because someone doesn't respond to your post doesn't mean it was skipped. Many times people don't respond unless they strongly disagree, or they might want to make a different point.

Originally Posted by Musicman247

So, "spec haters" anybody decide to take back your judgement until we se an actual working device?

I believe in innocent until proven guilty... but I have seen HTC's track record, and I am not giving them the benefit of the doubt again, ya know?

[Musicman247]

Alright, so I did a little research and found that all of the WP7 launch devices are using the same "outdated" processor (8250 or 8650, both 1st gen, both 65nm). Launch devices are coming out October/November this year, HTC 7 Pro is coming out just a few months later. So I'm wondering why there are not threads in the other WP7 device forums saying the same things about those devices that are being said here?

In fact, there doesn't seem to be any discussion in any of the other forums. Is it because everyone on here has Sprint?

[[sammich]]

Originally Posted by Musicman247

Alright, so I did a little research and found that all of the WP7 launch devices are using the same "outdated" processor (8250 or 8650, both 1st gen, both 65nm). Launch devices are coming out October/November this year, HTC 7 Pro is coming out just a few months later. So I'm wondering why there are not threads in the other WP7 device forums saying the same things about those devices that are being said here?

In fact, there doesn't seem to be any discussion in any of the other forums. Is it because everyone on here has Sprint?

I'm guessing its because most of us here need a phone with a full slide-out keyboard. If I didn't need a slide-out keyboard I wouldn't have many issues considering there are other devices that aren't nearly as behind the curve as this one.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by Musicman247

Alright, so I did a little research and found that all of the WP7 launch devices are using the same "outdated" processor (8250 or 8650, both 1st gen, both 65nm). Launch devices are coming out October/November this year, HTC 7 Pro is coming out just a few months later. So I'm wondering why there are not threads in the other WP7 device forums saying the same things about those devices that are being said here?

In fact, there doesn't seem to be any discussion in any of the other forums. Is it because everyone on here has Sprint?

Originally Posted by [sammich]

I'm guessing its because most of us here need a phone with a full slide-out keyboard. If I didn't need a slide-out keyboard I wouldn't have many issues considering there are other devices that aren't nearly as behind the curve as this one.

Sammich I'd have to disagree there..as the Epic 4g has a keyboard....The main reason why this device is getting criticism is because it is because this is a CDMA forum and also because of the fact that it is coming out a few month later then the others and is probably going to be 1-2 month till the EVO2 and/or Epic2 would come out...which will most likely have better specs by a good margin...like those 3rd generation snapdragons or Tegra2 or Orion cpus.

[kgnupe2]

Originally Posted by Musicman247

Alright, so I did a little research and found that all of the WP7 launch devices are using the same "outdated" processor (8250 or 8650, both 1st gen, both 65nm). Launch devices are coming out October/November this year, HTC 7 Pro is coming out just a few months later. So I'm wondering why there are not threads in the other WP7 device forums saying the same things about those devices that are being said here?

In fact, there doesn't seem to be any discussion in any of the other forums. Is it because everyone on here has Sprint?

No its because most of us have tp2 or has had tp2's and seeing a device that is a tp2.5 is a waste of development time. Secondly you say a few months, LMAO march is more like a half year after launch which is alot. How long do you expect a chipset lifetime to be 12 months tops (not in my book but this is industry standards) the hd2 launch oct-nov of 2009 all these wp7 devices are launching oct-nov of 2010 with the exception of the wp7 pro. These devices are at the end of a chipset lifecycle the wp7 pro is in rigamortis by march 2011, I would not bash it if it was a good attempt at a successor to a tp2 but this is more of a tp2.5 that will be mass marketed to common people with no tech knowledge. This device is an EPIC FAIL its like buying a 2012 M5 with a 1997 528i engine in it yes it will work and run very well and it has a nice shiny new body and case to it but underneath its extremely outdated and underpowered and you was expecting much better again an EPIC FAIL (I love bimmers also) but hopefully you get my point

[Musicman247]

Well what about the Touch Pro 2? Wasn't it heralded on the forums as a Touch Pro with a bigger screen? And yet it is now one of the best devices in Sprint's lineup. Now, I don't know if that says something about the TP2 or Sprint's lineup, but it seems like this is the same argument we had against the TP2, and now people love it!