Next WM release any time soon?

[gguruusa]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Alright cool. Here we go.
You want some no2chem apps that aren't necessary to make the phone better? nueUSB, nueLED, nueBattery, etc. Anything that has been implemented into the ROM to replace original Windows components is unecessary and does not NEED to be there. They're just prettier apps, designed to give a LITTLE more control over something that works fine on its own. We don't need someone telling us that their application is for our benefit when that same program is used in dozens of other roms on other devices and they function fine.

nueLED is standalone. Do you even know what the difference is between the nue version and the original? In most cases the nue version IS the original, just slightly altered. That's why we do a direct replacement. Stuff like nueLED where he actually wrote significant code are standalone, user selectable packages.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Besides it's really just a way to get his name out there.

Is that why we don't mention that they're in there? Good logic.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Oh, and for the record, if you actually go to re-read some of the threads, you'll notice yourself and colonel giving the finger to users who wondered why they couldn't remove some of no2chem's apps. You buried it in the SYS folders. Not everyone knows how to remove that stuff, and NOT everyone wants it. So I am right there.

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd realize its like a child saying why can't I have a green pencil when you gave them a yellow pencil. If you have some specific need for the yellow pencil, go get it. The green pencil is superior for the majority of people[/quote]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

I'm not saying no2chem can't do what he wants with his time. I said that you shouldn't expect an update from one of his "nueROMs" for a while because he's more focused on his "applications". That is evidenced by his "preview" builds and lack of any real release or update to a ROM base that other users can implement in their own kicthens, or even to PPCKitchen.

You missed the point. His apps are part of what makes his roms good. Working on the apps is integral to the features of his roms. I couldn't tell you about why he does or doesn't make basekit releases at any given time, but I can tell you making a release is a chore - it's not like "oh, I'll just zip up this directory."

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Duh, I'm well aware of that. I'm talking about THIS phone and the updates for it. I'm not concerned for the other phones. I'm talking about the time span between updates for the TITAN. There have been significant time increases between releases since the original kitchen was released.

Your statement was that DCD is the only one doing anything, and he's just a one man show. I merely pointed out that you have a micro view. Plenty is happening, just not where you are looking.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Crossed into insanity, eh? You "Kitchen Gods" are so self-righteous it's upsetting. Yes I'm using SOME apps from PPCGeeks_OEM.rar. But guess what? All of the apps I'm using from that RAR are actually taken from an old version that was released around the same time the first apache roms were. And most of them I have updated with downloads I found myself and turned them into OEMs. So your argument there is moot.

No, the argument was that lot's of things get updated beyond just the base OS.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

I'm not talking about 16 kitchens, I'm talking about the TITAN kitchen. I was also referring to no2chem in this as well. Where were all of these other kitchens when the roms for this phone were being updated and released? Seems like there were plenty of updates here when there were still other phones abound.

Several new devices have been added to the supported list since introduction of the titan kitchen. Those devices didn't have kitchens before, now they do. Just because the phone existed, doesn't mean it had a kitchen.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Also, I don't need DCD to write software for me to make my phone more usable. That's such a stupid argument considering what I've already stated. Everything that comes stock on Windows Mobile works just FINE. We're also not talking about unlockers, chat rooms, etc. You know what my point was.

Yes, your point was DCD does more than anyone else. It was ignorant. The fact is you DO need other people to write software for your phone, and what comes stock doesn't "work just fine" or you wouldn't be here.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Considering that I've flashed pratically every rom released and tested with the EXACT same setup of applications and pagepool, I HAVE in fact noticed a difference between all of them. I'm sorry if you think you're so high up that my matter of actually USING the phone doesn't count as testing, sorry, that's my benchmark and that's how I value a rom release.

Again, your testing sucks. No one said that DCD doesn't do this that or the other better than anyone else. What was said is that 20270 is not significantly different than 20273. Unless you made a stock 20273 kitchen, I don't know how you'd compare it to 20270.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

And last but not least, if that list isn't for people who have donated time and/or money, then you need to change the title of the ticker to something more like "Thank you to all who have used our ROMs" or "Thank you to all who have given us feedback". If it says "Thank you to all who have DONATED..." It really kinda means one thing. Unless of course someone donated their house, car, child or fettucine.

Hmmm.... maybe some did? No one said what was donated, and no one is going to. You assume it is cash, and I'm telling you you are wrong. The title is accurate, your interpretation is flawed.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Stop coming in here everytime there's a comment against your work like a whining school girl, getting butt-hurt. You'd do better in prison with a giant named Tiny.

You really are ignorant. You didn't even comment on my work except indirectly in one senetence. Between the two of us, one of us knows more about what work has been done, is being done, and will be done - which was the subject of this thread.

[electronicrice]

Originally Posted by gsvnet

Sorry, but that's just your opinion.

I find all of these apps to be useful and they are for a reason - to offer what WM simply doesn't (natively). Even though I'm using DCD's 3.2.5 at the moment I still have nueLED as I prefer not to have a signal light flashing...



I'm sorry, but your qualitative 'benchmark' has no value whatsoever.

Unfortunately you've missed the point. Though they may be useful for some, other do not want to have them forcibly installed. If I didn't know how to remove those apps, then I would have to live with them being installed even if I don't want them. That's contradicts the idea of a kitchen.

And though my "benchmark" may not not have any value to YOU, it certainly does to me and I, along with others I know, notice the difference. Question for you, why are you using DCD's 3.2.5 and not PPCKitchen?

[electronicrice]

Originally Posted by gguruusa

All of your nonsense.

Listen, the point I was trying to get across is that 1) there haven't been updates for a while from here and 2) not everything thinks the way you do, or wants what you want. You have a lot of technical prowess, but you don't know what all users NEED/WANT on their phones.

I'm done with the argument. We're both stubborn, we both have different views. I'm not admitting defeat and I'm sure you aren't either. It's going to be left at that.

G'day.

[sdsoundguy2007]

Originally Posted by superevilllama

well thats bout the funniest thing.. I have been running DCD's 20273 for several weeks and its about the most stablest rom I have had in a VERY long time.


Try it and see!!

I will second that I have been running DCD's 3.2.5 build for about as long and very stable but DCD does a great job of releasing very stable ROM's I highly recomend them

[chevyforlife]

i feel left out cause im not getting quoted. haha everyone need to calm down and relax!!!
~chevy

[gguruusa]

Originally Posted by kashabrown

I kind of thought gguru's responce was a bit dicey myself. I have used both developer's work and at this point my phone has DCD's latest itineration on it. I have tried to utilize the latest kitchen but I am having major problems cooking a rom that will run on my XV6800 without bugs - I would sure like to try it and make it work.

I thought that was what this forum is all about - spirited discussion relating to topics...

What problems are you having? Post them in the 20270 thread.

[gsvnet]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Unfortunately you've missed the point. Though they may be useful for some, other do not want to have them forcibly installed. If I didn't know how to remove those apps, then I would have to live with them being installed even if I don't want them. That's contradicts the idea of a kitchen.

And though my "benchmark" may not not have any value to YOU, it certainly does to me and I, along with others I know, notice the difference. Question for you, why are you using DCD's 3.2.5 and not PPCKitchen?

Good for you then - I find them useful and I do feel that development towards them is worthwhile. You don't - who cares, looks like you're happy with DCD's ROM anyway? (heck, I'm using it too) Also, no2chem DOES have quite a few useful features - for example, when sliding out the keyboard the device switches to using the NullKB SIP - that's perfect and saves annoyance when using certain applications.

When it comes to computing, you can't just say you 'notice' a difference, you have to have real figures/benchmarks to stand behind that. If you don't, then there's simply no argument. I personally haven't seen any difference whatsoever. But, I don't even think that's a valid argument - actual benchmarks would need to be done to prove this, AND it should be done on multiple devices, etc.

I'm using DCD simply because that's what I feel like using at the moment, I was using no2chem's pre8 for a while and it's quite a nice piece of work, just not what I need at the moment (I'm also waiting for him to sort out some of the bugs, which are to be expected considering all of the features he is adding). no2chem's ROMs tend to have quite a few bells and whistles and I personally like that quite a bit. DCD on the other hand seems to be focusing on making cleaner ROMs - I feel these are just two different approaches and fill a different niche. There's no point in arguing about this at all.

[gguruusa]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Listen, the point I was trying to get across is that 1) there haven't been updates for a while from here

8/12/08 was the last update.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

and 2) not everything thinks the way you do, or wants what you want. You have a lot of technical prowess, but you don't know what all users NEED/WANT on their phones.

Absolutely correct. Fortunately, I don't try to do that. Generally, PPCkitchen tries to put out a kitchen that closely resembles an unaltered WM build. No2Chem and DCD have different goals. We all integrate enhancements we think are either essential, ridiculous to not include, or simply a trivial enhancement to a required element. In the case of the No2Chem things you like to gripe about, it is not practical to make the items user selectable. If it were, they'd be OEMs (like the bulk of his apps).

[TurboFool]

Well, I did just go ahead and switch to my first-ever DCD build, but loaded it up with as many nueTools as would function in it. I really miss nueWiFiSwitch, though, as having that built into the official kitchen was fantastic. Only reason I switched was becausemy cooked 20270's available RAM just wasn't cutting it, and there seemed to be a memory leak that I couldn't plug for anything, so I thought I'd see if DCD was any better. Although it's only my first day with it, so far DCD's 3.2.5 is pretty strong.

As for this overall argument, here's my sentiment: It seems reasonable to me that the PPCKitchen builds in any of no2chem's improvements that genuinely improves the ROM without in any way taking away from what was already there. If it's a change that takes up mere kilobytes, expands upon the initial functionality, and doesn't in any way make the phone worse from the OEM version, I see no logical reason not to build it in. The rest shouldn't, and isn't, built in. I think the absolute most extreme function that was made standard was nueWiFiSwitch, and since by default it's set to mimic the functionality of a unit without that installed, it does no harm. If you really believe the standard apps work perfectly and don't need improvement you're both not very observant, and contradicting your reason for being here. WM needs plenty of help or we wouldn't need custom ROMs.

As for everything else, I can't say I'm not a little disappointed at the lack of recent progress over here, but it's mostly understandable. Not a lot has changed to drive the kitchen to update. This 20270 debate seems silly as the point gguru's trying to make is that without being able to compare 100% identical ROMs with the two versions, it's all circumstantial. DCD's 20273 ROM running faster than other 20270s isn't necessarily due to 20273, but may be due to other changes he's made. That, or it could be your perception of it. I'm running it now, and I'd say it seems to run pretty comparably to the 20270 build I was just running, but possibly minus the memory leak (not enough time with it to confirm).

I'm also disappointed by no2chem's lack of new stable builds in a while and lack of kitchen support. But even that was always a mixed bag. I found cooking a ROM based off of one of his basekits was never quite as clean or strong as running one of his own premade ROMs from the same build, so the fact that he wasn't releasing new basekits wasn't a huge disappointment to me. His latest inactivity seems clearly due to his efforts to reshuffle his organization methods, and I can appreciate that. It's a lot easier to work if you've got a better framework to work in. For me, although no2chem was my introduction to new builds and beta OSes and optimized performance, etc., his strength quickly became his tools. They're invaluable to me, and I can't imagine my phone without most of them. If he were to change his focus entirely to only the tools and making them more compatible with the kitchen and other ROMs and forget about making his own ROMs, I'd be completely comfortable with that.

Now for the complaints about the PPCKitchen in comparison to other options. Today I built my first ROM with DCD's kitchen, the same one that has been so heavily praised in here for being so much easier to use and more friendly than the official PPCKitchen. All I can say is what are you people smoking? I used what was essentially this same kitchen (without the CLI script that helps make it easier) back near the beginning of the Titan before the official Titan one hit and eventually had to give up on it. Unfriendly, unintuitive, and makes resolving conflicts a *****. The only thing it has over the other one is it's ever so slightly easier to figure out the source of a conflict, but only because I've learned enough from the PPCKitchen one. Otherwise pretty much every function of the official kitchen (and especially its conflict-resolution abilities) is superior and easier to use. I credit my experience with it for being the only reason I could get through the DCD kitchen unscathed. I'm extremely grateful for that kitchen, and really wish it was compatible with DCD's work, since I'm liking the ROM I eventually ended up with after quite a bit of trial-and-error.

I just feel like all this *****ing's silly. We do have many options available, and I'm grateful for that. But I'm not about to look that same gift horse in the mouth and complain that it's not giving me enough, or in some cases giving me too much. If I knew as much as they did maybe I'd be able to test 20273 at a higher level and find out that they're full of crap about it not being a big improvement, but until then I've got to take their words for it. They've gotten me this far.

[gguruusa]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

And though my "benchmark" may not not have any value to YOU, it certainly does to me and I, along with others I know, notice the difference. Question for you, why are you using DCD's 3.2.5 and not PPCKitchen?

No one said your evaluation of DCDs rom isn't of value, what was said is your evaluation of DCD 20273 vs ppckitchen 20270 is not sufficient to determine whether "20273 is noticeably better than 20270". There are other differences than just the build version and those differences invalidate the conclusion you drew.