HTC leo or Touch Pro2

[jethro_static]

Originally Posted by SporkLover

Correct. A general user will have no idea what the source code is. You have to be a developer to understand it. But that doesn't mean the End user doesn't benefit from the openess. It is an open system, anyone can look at, develop for, and release software for. This gives the user choice! The Android community is definitely developing steam in this regards. Closed systems, where the manufacturer and carrier control the applications hardly succeed (think Instinct).... except if you are awesome and your name is Apple. But even then, it doesn't provide consumers with freedom and choice. you have to jail break the phone to get that.

Having a locked Handset is a different issue. That is a hardware issue locking the phone down. In that respect yes, the consumers dont have control... but again thats the hardware. Android on the other hand can be controlled and modified.

Yes. that's my point exactly. User development got SDK. Which just give them the freedom to install non carrier/developer software.

[SporkLover]

Originally Posted by jethro_static

Yes. that's my point exactly. User development got SDK. Which just give them the freedom to install non carrier/developer software.

But again you are talking about the Open Handset Alliance Android. You can develop the Android google released the code to last year. Also, as soon as google is done with Cupcake you can develop it as well.

Everything on Android is out there and available. The SDK is not.

[jethro_static]

Originally Posted by SporkLover

But again you are talking about the Open Handset Alliance Android. You can develop the Android google released the code to last year. Also, as soon as google is done with Cupcake you can develop it as well.

Everything on Android is out there and available. The SDK is not.

Open handset alliance is partner with Google. So everything it does still have Googles influence on it.
Here is the SDK

[SporkLover]

Originally Posted by jethro_static

Open handset alliance is partner with Google. So everything it does still have Googles influence on it.
Here is the SDK

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make. Yes google is a Member of the Open Handset Alliance, however, so are these folks :

http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html

They all influence the development of Android.

The Open Handset Alliance are the current developers of Android. Overall

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android...ting_system%29

The SDK is closed source yes. And the Android market is controlled by Google, however the Android market is not the sole method for installing apps on the phone. You can get apps outside of the market without rooting/jailbreaking the phone.

[jethro_static]

Ok. I will tell U my point. U are telling people that U can take over an Android device (ex. G1)completely. I said no. Even thou that Android is opensource, U cannot take over it on a device. It is not linux on PC. The carrier have full control of android on ur phone. Android on phones is just as free as WM on ur phone. That's is the point.

SDK is used by developers to create apps for the OS. SO when they release the Android SDK, ANybody that know how to program and understand the Android code can make an App and intall it. That's as far freedom that U can get.

U can create custom ROM's for Android too. But the OS is the one released by the the people that develops Android. U just add and remove, tweak ,fix patch it. Like what we do an WM.

If U are a company that has hardware. Only then U can completely overhaul Android, Make another version and slap it in ur hardware. Or Make ur own Android and find a company that will take ur new android version.

U can still make ur own Android version. However, It will be very difficult to run it on a handset that is released by manufacturer.

Are U saying, U can modify android and overhaul it completely and put it on any device that easy?

[jethro_static]

The OHA was established on 5 November 2007, led by Google with 47 members including mobile handset makers, application developers, some mobile carriers and chip makers.[2] Nokia, AT&T and Verizon Wireless are not members of the alliance. However, Verizon recently expressed a change of heart and a desire to use Android in the future, indicating that it may soon seek to join the Open Handset Alliance.[3] Android, the flagship software of the alliance, is based on an open source license and will compete against other mobile platforms from Apple, Microsoft, Nokia, Palm, Research In Motion, and Symbian


The OHA was established on 5 November 2007, led by Google with 47 members <---

[SporkLover]

Originally Posted by jethro_static

Ok. I will tell U my point. U are telling people that U can take over an Android device (ex. G1)completely. I said no. Even thou that Android is opensource, U cannot take over it on a device. It is not linux on PC. The carrier have full control of android on ur phone. Android on phones is just as free as WM on ur phone. That's is the point.

No you cannot take over an entire Android device but you can do tweaking patching, modifying to a higher degree than any other device out there. Why... because the CORE OS code is open source. If you want to modify the telephony stacks or network stacks.... you can do it....You can modify any of that. Anything that is proprietary under the Apache License, that isn't open source, obviously you can't modify the code. Does HTC want you to do this? No. But their desire doesn't stop developers from doing so by rooting the device (equivalent of jailbreak).

My point was not that HTC or any phone manufacturer makes it easy for anyone to modify Android.... my point is that Android is open source, and for anyone with the resources you can take control of many points of the OS you can't with other mobile OS's. Again... there are those proprietary code pieces that aren't released... but then again I am talking about what Google made open source.

SDK is used by developers to create apps for the OS. SO when they release the Android SDK, ANybody that know how to program and understand the Android code can make an App and intall it. That's as far freedom that U can get.

Not sure what you are getting at...... was this ever in dispute? Thats quite a bit of Freedom still. My only point about the SDK, was that it's code was Close Sourced. Meaning the Open Handset Alliance controls it... you can't modify it.

If U are a company that has hardware. Only then U can completely overhaul Android, Make another version and slap it in ur hardware. Or Make ur own Android and find a company that will take ur new android version.

You don't have to be a company with hardware to overhaul Android. The Open Handset Alliance sells an Android Dev Phone that is unlocked and loaded with all of the open source Android code. $400 is what it takes.

U can still make ur own Android version. However, It will be very difficult to run it on a handset that is released by manufacturer.

No doubt, definitely hard. Part of the downside of the Apache license is that it allows folks to make proprietary code. So in the Open Handset Alliance, with Chip manufacturers, hardware makers, and carriers all in cahoots, they can collude together and build a phone and not make the inner workings of how the OS operates with new chip sets open source.

Are U saying, U can modify android and overhaul it completely and put it on any device that easy?

In short... yes and no. You can modify the open source android to your hearts desire. Put it on any device? No... if there is proprietary code with how the interacts with the hardware (proprietary drivers), then there really isn't anything you can do if you are trying to build a custom Android from the ground up. However.... if you have a phone like the G1.... you can modify the code for the open source pieces of the OS. You can write your own GUI. You can do alot... including installing a full PC distribution of Debian.

How much of all of this is your general user going to do. Probably not a whole lot... but for folks who like to tweak and get into that type of coding... they can do alot for general users.

[jethro_static]

Originally Posted by SporkLover

Not sure what you are getting at...... was this ever in dispute? Thats quite a bit of Freedom still. My only point about the SDK, was that it's code was Close Sourced. Meaning the Open Handset Alliance controls it... you can't modify it.

U don't modify an SDK. It is a tool that helps U create Apps for a certain OS.

Originally Posted by SporkLover

You don't have to be a company with hardware to overhaul Android. The Open Handset Alliance sells an Android Dev Phone that is unlocked and loaded with all of the open source Android code. $400 is what it takes.

So what's the point of buying it for 400 if U don't have a device to put it on?

Definitely no question on how free is Android as an OS. No question on that. But the freedom Android is talking about is not being able to completely takeover an owners phone for his way, his rule. The freedom Android is talking about is to be able to install Android OS on any device in the gadget universe. Whether it's an old device or new. As long as the the device meets the minimum requirement. But the problem is, we're not there yet. In the future, yes. But not at the moment. So as of the moment, it is clasified a theory.

[SporkLover]

Originally Posted by jethro_static

U don't modify an SDK. It is a tool that helps U create Apps for a certain OS.

I understand that.... my only point was that when google made all of the code open source..... EXCEPT the SDK. Period. I know what a SDK is, and their purpose.

So what's the point of buying it for 400 if U don't have a device to put it on?

The Dev Phone IS a device. It's a device that allows developers to have free reign with Android.... made available by the open handset alliance.

Definitely no question on how free is Android as an OS. No question on that. But the freedom Android is talking about is not being able to completely takeover an owners phone for his way, his rule. The freedom Android is talking about is to be able to install Android OS on any device in the gadget universe. Whether it's an old device or new. As long as the the device meets the minimum requirement. But the problem is, we're not there yet. In the future, yes. But not at the moment. So as of the moment, it is clasified a theory.

Yes spot on, that is why Google pushed for open networks, and the open handset alliance.

While maybe empowering phone owners to take control of their OS on their phone may not be a goal of Android developers, manufacturers, or carriers.... it is a benefit. Pretty much all of the manufacturers take steps to prevent it. However much like the Iphone, once a developer on already manufactured and released phone (HTC G1) has root access their limit is their coding abilities and hardware capabilities. Since Android code is Open Source they can pretty much Mod, tweak, anything in the OS (again, unless there are specific proprietary code embedded in the phone OS).

[SporkLover]

Originally Posted by jethro_static

The OHA was established on 5 November 2007, led by Google with 47 members <---

Getting into Semantics here. Yes Google maybe the lead in the OHA. Yes they influence the group.... just like HTC, ACER, etc do. It is a consortium. Again the software is open source... they all develop it and contribute to the project. Just because they develop for the project does not mean Google controls or influences every piece.