HTC leo or Touch Pro2

[jethro_static]

Sporklan claims to know a lot about Android. But never understand what open source mean. Not even close..

[SporkLover]

Jethro, I am starting to think you are a 15 Y/O. Your language has degraded into something that isn't Intelligible. I can disengage if you think you are going to stay at the juvenile level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source is your definition of Open Source. Android is under an Apache License. That is an open source license. It allows folks to develop things for the software that ARE CLOSE SOURCE. Close Source, meaning you do not have access to the code, and have to abide by the original provider's distribution license / rules. In the case of Cyanogen, Gmail, Market, Google Maps, etc are CLOSE SOURCE.

Cyanogen was violating distribution rules for CLOSE SOURCED software. Not Android.

The remote remove you speak of refers to the Android market and any software peddled through the Android Market. If you don't use the Android Market (which belongs to Google) then you don't have an issue. Those Terms of Service apply to ONLY Android Market. Google owned up to them over a year ago, and if you search for news releases, you will see Google was open and up front, and released their intent a long time ago.

I'll even help you out:

Google may have more need to use a kill switch than Apple. That's because Apple vets applications before putting them into its Apps Store. Anything goes in Google's Android Market, opening the chances of malicious or otherwise unwanted applications appearing in the market.

Their intent was to keep Android Market safe. If there is a malicious app released, Google wanted a way to remove it from the market and affected phones.

http://tinyurl.com/y99uydy

Back to Cyanogen (because Android being open source is not really a discussion.... you can find the code easily).....

The Crux of the issue here is the Google Apps that in Google's eyes, were distributed via an Unlicensed means. If you digg deeper.... Cyanogen was distributing Close Sourced Software versions that weren't even released yet. That is more than likely why Cyanogen was singled out.

[jethro_static]

Originally Posted by SporkLover

Jethro, I am starting to think you are a 15 Y/O. Your language has degraded into something that isn't Intelligible. I can disengage if you think you are going to stay at the juvenile level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source is your definition of Open Source. Android is under an Apache License. That is an open source license. It allows folks to develop things for the software that ARE CLOSE SOURCE. Close Source, meaning you do not have access to the code, and have to abide by the original provider's distribution license / rules. In the case of Cyanogen, Gmail, Market, Google Maps, etc are CLOSE SOURCE.

Cyanogen was violating distribution rules for CLOSE SOURCED software. Not Android.

The remote remove you speak of refers to the Android market and any software peddled through the Android Market. If you don't use the Android Market (which belongs to Google) then you don't have an issue. Those Terms of Service apply to ONLY Android Market. Google owned up to them over a year ago, and if you search for news releases, you will see Google was open and up front, and released their intent a long time ago.

I'll even help you out: Their intent was to keep Android Market safe. If there is a malicious app released, Google wanted a way to remove it from the market and affected phones.

http://tinyurl.com/y99uydy

Back to Cyanogen (because Android being open source is not really a discussion.... you can find the code easily).....

The Crux of the issue here is the Google Apps that in Google's eyes, were distributed via an Unlicensed means. If you digg deeper.... Cyanogen was distributing Close Sourced Software versions that weren't even released yet. That is more than likely why Cyanogen was singled out.

I do not know how old U r and Until now U R still brewing stories that does not make sense and does not answer everything that I ask. U r still copying and pasting definitions which google released. U r not using ur common sense why this definitions are released. Those definitions are true. However there is a "catch". And that "catch is the one that U do not understand and does not want to accept and never answer.

Kill switch is not in the Android market. It is on the OS. Nobody knows that it exist until somebody discovered it. Remote kill switch. Do U understand what remote kill switch means? It is already defined by the name. remote kill switch!

Cyanogen is in trouble bcoz he is distributing google called closed software. Do not brew a story he had an access to any unreleased software.

So can U do anything U want with Android? Any Mod U want?

And few p[ages back, U keep on saying that Google does not have anything to do with Android anymore. Didn't U?

[SporkLover]

Originally Posted by jethro_static

I do not know how old U r and Until now U R still brewing stories that does not make sense and does not answer everything that I ask. U r still copying and pasting definitions which google released. U r not using ur common sense why this definitions are released. Those definitions are true. However there is a "catch". And that "catch is the one that U do not understand and does not want to accept and never answer.

Brewing Stories that make no sense? Copying and Pasting Definitions? Go back and re-read. There is one definition of open source, and it's not yours.

Open Source means developers have given access to software source code. Period. No conditions on that there. Read that definition EVERYWHERE.

YOU CAN GET THE ANDROID SOURCE CODE. It is posted on the net.

You can also get new Android source code. It is why folks like Cyanogen can take Cupcake Source Code, integrate it into ROMs for existing devices (G1) and release them before their official releases.

It is open source so they can modify very specific parts of the ROM. They can choose to bring over JUST the bluetooth stack and nothing else.

Kill switch is not in the Android market. It is on the OS. Nobody knows that it exist until somebody discovered it. Remote kill switch. Do U understand what remote kill switch means? It is already defined by the name. remote kill switch!

Kill switch is the name given by the media. Understand that first.

Next, the Android Market was launched in Oct of 2008. The first Android Phone was launched in Oct of 2008. The Terms Of Service for using the Market (included Google's ability to remotely remove software) was available before Launch Date.

Google was up front about it, they didn't attempt to hide it like Apple.

Now that being said, it is ToS for THE MARKET. Not the entire phone. It is meant to keep the Market clean. For your reading enjoyment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Market
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/10/android-market/ (read this one thoroughly)
http://www.crn.com/software/21120174...RSKHWATMY32JVN

Cyanogen is in trouble bcoz he is distributing google called closed software. Do not brew a story he had an access to any unreleased software.

Read this: http://androidandme.com/2009/09/news...d-controversy/

The C&D that Google sent to cyanogen was spawned by Google’s legal team, and lacks the support of the Android developers (who think it’s in VERY poor taste), likely spawned by the fact that he included a copy of the new 1.6 marketplace which had not been released anywhere else. He’s had at least 1 phone call with Google, and is working to open a dialog with them about the issue. They’re so far well with in their legal rights to do what they did, and he’s trying to open a dialog to allow him to continue. At this point, he thinks they’re acting in good faith, and is trying to keep this as quiet as possible to avoid any negative PR, so long as they’re acting in good faith.

Here is picture proof: http://www.androidcentral.com/new-an...h-cyanogen-rom

Unreleased software

So can U do anything U want with Android? Any Mod U want?

And few p[ages back, U keep on saying that Google does not have anything to do with Android anymore. Didn't U?

You absolutely can do any mod you want to Android, as long as you aren't messing with the closed source pieces. You want to port over Cupcake functionality to 1.1, go for it. Hey that is exactly what Cyanogen did.

I didn't say Google doesn't have anything to do with it, I said they are a part of the open handset alliance that develops Android. It is opensource, they pool their efforts and resources together to develop it. It is not a unilaterally controlled boat. Perhaps I understated their lead.

Back on target, CyanogenMod is back on track again, minus those apps. Like I said.

[jethro_static]

Originally Posted by SporkLover

Brewing Stories that make no sense? Copying and Pasting Definitions? Go back and re-read. There is one definition of open source, and it's not yours.

Open Source means developers have given access to software source code. Period. No conditions on that there. Read that definition EVERYWHERE.

YOU CAN GET THE ANDROID SOURCE CODE. It is posted on the net.

You can also get new Android source code. It is why folks like Cyanogen can take Cupcake Source Code, integrate it into ROMs for existing devices (G1) and release them before their official releases.

It is open source so they can modify very specific parts of the ROM. They can choose to bring over JUST the bluetooth stack and nothing else.


Kill switch is the name given by the media. Understand that first.

Next, the Android Market was launched in Oct of 2008. The first Android Phone was launched in Oct of 2008. The Terms Of Service for using the Market (included Google's ability to remotely remove software) was available before Launch Date.

Google was up front about it, they didn't attempt to hide it like Apple.

Now that being said, it is ToS for THE MARKET. Not the entire phone. It is meant to keep the Market clean. For your reading enjoyment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_Market
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/10/android-market/ (read this one thoroughly)
http://www.crn.com/software/21120174...RSKHWATMY32JVN

Read this: http://androidandme.com/2009/09/news...d-controversy/

Here is picture proof: http://www.androidcentral.com/new-an...h-cyanogen-rom

Unreleased software

You absolutely can do any mod you want to Android, as long as you aren't messing with the closed source pieces. You want to port over Cupcake functionality to 1.1, go for it. Hey that is exactly what Cyanogen did.

I didn't say Google doesn't have anything to do with it, I said they are a part of the open handset alliance that develops Android. It is opensource, they pool their efforts and resources together to develop it. It is not a unilaterally controlled boat. Perhaps I understated their lead.

Back on target, CyanogenMod is back on track again, minus those apps. Like I said.

The point that u clearly do not understand is How open Android is. We in the PPC community DO not have to deal with Cyanogen is dealing with. We in our ROM's have no restrictions on any Apps whatsoever. Wether closed apps or open apps. So why the hell cyanogen have to deal with that? And he is dealing with an OS that supposedly Open sourced? Just compare WM roms to cyanogens Android. U can modify android. Like I said, No questions. But tell me why Google is after him and WM chef is doing the same thing with googles closed apps and never get after? Tell me why, then we will all be done.

Like it's said in the article that I posted. Google will terminate any apps that they think violates the terms remotely. Wether it's thier app or third party app. Whatever it is, Get the kill switch the hell out of my phone. Kill switch is not suppose to be on my phone wether the OS is open or close. And it is said, There is no such term, even in the strict Apple system. Why google claims it's open sourced and have a kill switch? wether from the beginning of the released or not. It is not suppose to be there.

[SporkLover]

I understand the point you are trying to make very clearly. You are just wrong.

You need to delineate Android from Google's other application work. You are taking issue with how Google chooses to distribute Maps, Mail, etc on Android vs WM. Clearly that is an angering issue, but has no bearing on "how open Android is." It is how Google makes money from Android. Not really an old addage, but how do you make money off open source software? You write closed source software for it and charge.

Android is Open. You have already admitted, he can modify it, and redistribute it. He was not in trouble for that.

The Apps that Cyanogen was distributing were not. He clearly admitted that. The reason you don't have a problem with it on WM is because Google doesn't have restriction on the distribution of those apps on WM. You can go and download them freely. With Android you can't. They only come pre-installed, and they are put there by a business arrangement. Cyanogen violated that. There is nothing like that on WM. If there was, you can bet that Google would jump all over that too.

Just because Android as a Mobile OS is open, does not mean it is the wild west; you still have to abide by applicable Copyright and Distribution Rights.

I don't think Kill Switches fit in with the open source effort either. But Google put it in as a good faith effort to protect users, and IP holders, because Google doesn't vet the apps in the Android market. They need a mechanism to protect someone else's IP, and to protect their Market users from being exploited. They were up front about it before the Market even opened. They did not try to hide it. It was Terms of service that you had to accept in order to use the market. Within their Terms of Service they even state what they intend to use it for.


They have similar terms for distribution in the market:

7.2 Google Takedowns. While Google does not intend, and does not undertake, to monitor the Products or their content, if Google is notified by you or otherwise becomes aware and determines in its sole discretion that a Product or any portion thereof or your Brand Features; (a) violates the intellectual property rights or any other rights of any third party; (b) violates any applicable law or is subject to an injunction; (c) is pornographic, obscene or otherwise violates Google’s hosting policies or other terms of service as may be updated by Google from time to time in its sole discretion; (d) is being distributed by you improperly; (e) may create liability for Google or Authorized Carriers; (f) is deemed by Google to have a virus or is deemed to be malware, spyware or have an adverse impact on Google’s or an Authorized Carrier’s network; (g) violates the terms of this Agreement or the Market Content Policy for Developers; or (h) the display of the Product is impacting the integrity of Google servers (i.e., users are unable to access such content or otherwise experience difficulty), Google may remove the Product from the Market or reclassify the Product at its sole discretion. Google reserves the right to suspend and/or bar any Developer from the Market at its sole discretion.

Whether we like it or not as users, as Apple, Google, MS move into the software distributor channels, they are trying to protect themselves from possible litigation for distributing Malicious, illegal, etc software, by building in mechanism that allow them to remove apps they distribute. Even MS has this capability.

[jethro_static]

Originally Posted by SporkLover

I understand the point you are trying to make very clearly. You are just wrong.

You need to delineate Android from Google's other application work. You are taking issue with how Google chooses to distribute Maps, Mail, etc on Android vs WM. Clearly that is an angering issue, but has no bearing on "how open Android is." It is how Google makes money from Android. Not really an old addage, but how do you make money off open source software? You write closed source software for it and charge.

Android is Open. You have already admitted, he can modify it, and redistribute it. He was not in trouble for that.

The Apps that Cyanogen was distributing were not. He clearly admitted that. The reason you don't have a problem with it on WM is because Google doesn't have restriction on the distribution of those apps on WM. You can go and download them freely. With Android you can't. They only come pre-installed, and they are put there by a business arrangement. Cyanogen violated that. There is nothing like that on WM. If there was, you can bet that Google would jump all over that too.

Just because Android as a Mobile OS is open, does not mean it is the wild west; you still have to abide by applicable Copyright and Distribution Rights.

I don't think Kill Switches fit in with the open source effort either. But Google put it in as a good faith effort to protect users, and IP holders, because Google doesn't vet the apps in the Android market. They need a mechanism to protect someone else's IP, and to protect their Market users from being exploited. They were up front about it before the Market even opened. They did not try to hide it. It was Terms of service that you had to accept in order to use the market. Within their Terms of Service they even state what they intend to use it for.


They have similar terms for distribution in the market:


Whether we like it or not as users, as Apple, Google, MS move into the software distributor channels, they are trying to protect themselves from possible litigation for distributing Malicious, illegal, etc software, by building in mechanism that allow them to remove apps they distribute. Even MS has this capability.

I did not read Ur post really coz it jsut go bAck to where it stated. Here is the thing. U have an Android device. U cannot do whatever U want in it then distribute it. We already see the trouble it made. My point is, People tend to think, when they buy an android device, sky is the limit. I said no. Google still controls it plus the carrier. U did not want to agree on that fact. I do not care. it is proven that there is limitations as cyanogens situation is right now. Google is not as free and as open as the general population think it is. SO the open source. I can do anything I want on an Android is smashed. So I will say it again. Google Android, as they said Open source is still a theory. It is not as free as U would think on a mobile device.

I will not answer on this thread no more coz it is not appropriate. The other thread is more likely.

For the threads topic, Leo aka HD2 will not come to the US so pls. Do not wait.