So now that Sprint has confirmed GPS and EVDO Rev. A for Mogul...

[Pibe38]

Wait a second... are we talking about the Mogul or the Touch? The November update is for the Mogul, not the Touch as far as I understand.

[Musicman247]

Originally Posted by Pibe38

Wait a second... are we talking about the Mogul or the Touch? The November update is for the Mogul, not the Touch as far as I understand.

The thread is reffering to the Touch, the post by Viper is reffering to the Mogul as can be seen in his title. I was simply asking for clarification of the Mogul ROM he was given.

Sorry that it got a little confusing.

[SINNN]

Well, it states that its GPS. Not a-gps. But you never know with Sprint and HTC. They might change their text later.

[Malatesta]

Originally Posted by SINNN

Well, it states that its GPS. Not a-gps. But you never know with Sprint and HTC. They might change their text later.

Here's the deal as far as I know. There is a *ton* of confusion on these issues.

The Touch and Mogul will both get this update to enable aGPS. I also think all new WM devices will have this enabled on Sprint in the future.

Now, do they mean "GPS" or "aGPS" and what is the difference? As it turns out, the terms can overlap significantly.

• GPS means standalone and strictly satellite based. These are devices that typically have a built-in SirfIII chip. They are quite rare though they exist.

Here's where it gets tricky though: aGPS can operate in 4 different modes, depending on (1) Device hardware and (2) Network setup, including:

• Standalone (only satellite)
• Server + satellite
• Server + Triangulation + satellite (data interruption)
• Server + Triangulation + satellite (no data interruption)

In order for a device with aGPS to operate in standalone it absolutely needs an internal GPS antenna in order to receive good satellite reception. And that is the big question here: Do any Sprint devices currently have a built in GPS antenna? The answer is evidently (definitely for the Mogul) no. (Shadowmite #1 + #2)

Now the HTC Kaiser/AT&T Tilt also has "GPS" (read gpsOne/aGPS) but it does have an internal antenna and therefore can operate in standalone mode. It would seem extremely odd for Sprint to have devices released like the Touch with an internal GPS antenna, but not have it activated and AFAIK, no one has found such an antenna.

Because of this, unless future WM devices come with a built in GPS antenna, they will always rely on the servers and a data connection. This seems like the case recently with the upcoming Treo 800w. It looks like Palm wanted to have an internal antenna and Sprint does not (the source is someone who leaked the earlier mockup of the 800w):

Originally Posted by jrinehart

As far as who decides the build of the phone, technically are decided by Palm. Sprint asks for a feature and Palm says yes or no. Conversely, Palm included true GPS in the 800w (or so I'm told) but Sprint is looking like they will only enable aGPS. It would seem that it goes both ways.

This is all not a "bad" thing necessarily. As many here point out, it sure beats nothing Also aGPS can be quite accurate and even give you coordinates indoors. But, they do not work if you have no cell signal.

Case in point: BlackBerry 8830 (CDMA/GSM) on Sprint: source

Q – Does GPS work internationally?
A – No, the GPS chipset on the 8830 is disabled when the device is in GSM/GPRS mode due to Qualcomm requirement.

Now, will we be able to freely use this aGPS with any 3rd party program like TomTom, LiveSearch or Google Maps? I have no idea.

For a similar write up, see my article at WMExperts:
http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ru...tch_on_gp.html

PS: Yeah, this stuff is confusing. If anyone has information that contradicts mine or they have something that shows what I wrote is drastically off-base, please post it! lol

[EtherealRemnant]

I have a feeling that included with this update will be some kind of encryption that locks it to Sprint Navigation (TeleNav) as I can't see any other reason Sprint wouldn't have the GPS going out of the box.

[Malatesta]

Originally Posted by EtherealRemnant

I have a feeling that included with this update will be some kind of encryption that locks it to Sprint Navigation (TeleNav) as I can't see any other reason Sprint wouldn't have the GPS going out of the box.

A definite possibility unfortunately.

Although with AT&T churning out WM devices with "GPS" enabled like the Tilt and now the BlackJack II, they may be feeling increased pressure to do something in response.

Of course that's me being rationale on the subject

[mindmenace]

I'm not a Electrical engineer, but it seems that the qualcomm scematics for the touch show gps on board. this is for the sprint 400mhz model.

check it out for yourself.

http://www.cdmatech.com/download_lib...00_chipset.pdf

[j10376]

Viper you have the beta could you please share.

[dew.man]

Originally Posted by Malatesta

And that is the big question here: Do any Sprint devices currently have a built in GPS antenna? The answer is evidently (definitely for the Mogul) no.

Basically good info, but I would like to add a couple of things:

There have been reports that the Qualcomm chip can multi-plex the cellular antenna thereby elimiating the need for a dedicated one for satelite based GPS.

Originally Posted by Malatesta

It would seem extremely odd for Sprint to have devices released like the Touch with an internal GPS antenna, but not have it activated and AFAIK, no one has found such an antenna.

The same argument can be made about releasing a device without triangulation/cellular based GPS being enabled as that's a function of the cellular service inherintly present in the device!

Also, I'd like to remind you of the HTC Trinity (P3600) that came out a year or two ago. It also was originally advertised as having GPS, but once shipped, any mention of GPS was completely removed from the marketing materials. At that time, there was the same type of speculation over the GPS capabilities in the Trinity as there are now over the Vogue. Plenty of people chimed in stating unequivically that there would never be a GPS enabled ROM. Then, about a year later, the ROMs began to surface. First Dopod shipped a radio update that was quickly ported over/made available, and then HTC released the official update that enabled standalone GPS. I never did understand why the delay, but heard that there were problems with the GPS/cellular radios interfering with each other that had to be worked out. Being that the 7500 is a newer chipset, I imagine that the same type of issues could be present thereby delaying the GPS release?


Now I don't know for sure that there will ever be a standalone GPS update for the Touch or the Mogul, but I have not seen any evidence that there won't! Meanwhile, contrary to some of the naysayers of yesterday, Sprint HAS confirmed that there will be SOME sort of GPS enabled. And the only reason I can think of that TelNav does not work with those devices at the time of their release (as it is a revenue source), is that Sprint/HTC is trying to work out the bugs in the interface between the assisted and the satelite based GPS...

[shaun0207]

Sprint Promises Significant Upgrade for the HTC Mogul

Submitted by Ed Hardy on Friday, November 23, 2007

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Sprint is planning to introduce a system software update for the HTC Mogul that will bring new features to this smartphone, including faster wireless networking and new navigation capabilities.
In a post on the company's customer support forum, a member of the Sprint Product Development group said that new system software to be released early next year will upgrade this device to EV-DO Rev. A. The Mogul can already connect to Sprint's EV-DO network for high-speed wireless access, but Rev. A is faster than the version of EV-DO currently offered by this model.
In addition, this upgrade will fix an odd limitation in this smartphone. It ships with GPS hardware, but as it stands now there's no software driver to allow users to take advantage of it. The new system will change this, and the Mogul will then offer full GPS capabilities.
The statement from Sprint doesn't give an exact release date for the system software upgrade, only saying it will be available in "early 1Q 2008".
Problems with the Last Update
This upcoming upgrade won't be the first software update introduced for the Mogul. Sprint and HTC released an update last month. However, this has some bugs, and a needs t be replace.

Sprint and HTC regret any inconvenience customers have recently experienced with the Mogul. HTC is working on a new version of the software ROM for the Mogul which incorporates enhancements for Bluetooth performance and corrects issues that were unintentionally created by ROM version 2.16.651.0 (posted on HTC's website on October 24). Both Sprint and HTC have begun testing the new software and are targeting to make it available for download by the end of November.

In the mean time, people who have already installed ROM version 2.16 and are having problems can downgrade to the previous version, which can be found on HTC's web site.