I think I need to exchange my TP...do you agree?

[littlefreak]

rawdikrik.... Sorry if I seemed offensive... But you have to realize that alot of people on here arnt complete tech nuts. Which is a good thing I love see the WM audience growing. Where as I could interupt what you were saying there are others on here that will not take it with "lick of salt". They turn to the tech savey people to help them understand. The mogul was a little less used then the TP. With the TPs overwelming popularity I see we are getting alot of new faces around here. They see us all flashing and running are customizations, but they dont realize what these flashes and customizations are actauly doing. I think these roms should start coming with large disclaimers.... or to make it easier just put the disclaimers on the unlockers...

[gearjunkeez]

Originally Posted by gator352

And more with the phone and not with the software? How many posts have you read? Before you make a statement like that, go read the 1000's of post's concerning software related issues with custom roms!

I meant his particular problem sounded more phone issue than software issue, Not overall siitewide muti-thousand post issue. I am well aware of the bugs that come with custom roms. And I too don't want higher insurance premiums. And I too flash custom roms. And I do agree that people complaining about the phone when its a software or rom issue is getting a little ridiculous. And i think Matrix's problem is with his actual phone.

You're all over-reacting... seriously.

If he brings it back to 100% stock and it still has a problem then it's definitely an issue with the phone. Edit: THE FACT IS: He hasn't done this yet! There's no need to say his phone is bad till he rules out the software in the first place.

Some of the claims in this thread are just plain RETARDED.

You're changing the software on the "microcontroller" ... wtf?

So you're saying every time I use my PC and load a program into RAM, I'm messing things up.

It's just storage, that's all the ROM is. You're not changing anything. You're not magically changing the architecture of your PPC's processor. Your ARM processor can't become x86-based.

Flashing the SOFTWARE won't cause hardware problems unless it modifies voltages that can actually effect the PHYSICAL parts. Installing a program isn't going to run around and break connections in the processor or on the mainboard... please, get real.

The next thing, 99% of people who are having problems are using custom ROM's.

Do you realize what site you're on? How many people who actually post are really using a stock ROM? Chances are, almost everyone has reflashed... the problem could very well have happened on a stock ROM too.

And when I had this issue, it did the same thing on the stock ROM.

GUESS WHAT? I'm still using the same "oh no, it's broken" phone from when I had this issue, all I did was reformat my storage card and download all my .cab files fresh.

Why are the horribly misguided and uninformed always the most vocal?

[gator352]

Originally Posted by rawdikrik

I agree with you in the sense that you dont want people sending in phones for repair when it was them that messed it up. I pay for insurance, and I know where you are coming from.

IM also agreeing that you are being helpful. It was more of an all around statement to people in general.

Also I understand that the phones arent really like our PC's... Its more of an all around statement. Again, to be taken with a lick of salt.

I just take offense to people jumping on custom roms as the culprit for our woes... Im standing by the fact that it has more to do with inexperienced people tinkering and then freaking out when things dont go as expected than a custom ROM.

I run custom ROMS all the time... always have, and hope to always will. Ive had odd issues, perfectly working systems and everything in between. The only thing you can do is exactly what I suggested... Wipe to stock and start over.

BTW... when i had the stock rom, i customized the bejesus out of it... and loved it. but now that I run a Cooked ROM... I love it even more.

LOL man, I understand everything your saying. I'm not trying to dis custom roms at all. But honestly, 99% of the hardware problems you read on here they are running custom roms. I see 1 out of 10 posts that their stock rom has a major issue. Doesn't that make for a lil bit of concern? Not all TP's are alike. Did you read my other posts?

It's just what I said before though, people flash their new roms, have probs, then bash/return it for a new one. We all suffer for it, especially the ones that have a real problem. But no worries, I see your point as well!

[gator352]

Originally Posted by gearjunkeez

I meant his particular problem sounded more phone issue than software issue, Not overall siitewide muti-thousand post issue. I am well aware of the bugs that come with custom roms. And I too don't want higher insurance premiums. And I too flash custom roms. And I do agree that people complaining about the phone when its a software or rom issue is getting a little ridiculous. And i think Matrix's problem is with his actual phone.

Thanks man! For our sake though, lets hope it's not! LOL Really, I would like to see his phone working again!

[gator352]

Originally Posted by ShadowDrake

You're all over-reacting... seriously.

If he brings it back to 100% stock and it still has a problem then it's definitely an issue with the phone. Edit: THE FACT IS: He hasn't done this yet! There's no need to say his phone is bad till he rules out the software in the first place.

Some of the claims in this thread are just plain RETARDED.

You're changing the software on the "microcontroller" ... wtf?

So you're saying every time I use my PC and load a program into RAM, I'm messing things up.

It's just storage, that's all the ROM is. You're not changing anything. You're not magically changing the architecture of your PPC's processor. Your ARM processor can't become x86-based.

Flashing the SOFTWARE won't cause hardware problems unless it modifies voltages that can actually effect the PHYSICAL parts. Installing a program isn't going to run around and break connections in the processor or on the mainboard... please, get real.

The next thing, 99% of people who are having problems are using custom ROM's.

Do you realize what site you're on? How many people who actually post are really using a stock ROM? Chances are, almost everyone has reflashed... the problem could very well have happened on a stock ROM too.

And when I had this issue, it did the same thing on the stock ROM.

GUESS WHAT? I'm still using the same "oh no, it's broken" phone from when I had this issue, all I did was reformat my storage card and download all my .cab files fresh.

Why are the horribly misguided and uninformed always the most vocal?

OK.....first off, roms (read only memory), kinda like the bios in your PC, is on a flash based microchip. So it's not just storage. It is in a way a firmware controller. This firmware does happen to control the voltages, amps, and everything in between using software and hardware. If HTC decided to make hardware changes for manufacturing purposes that your not aware of ,then an older rom would and could damage your hardware. It could be like putting jet fuel in a stationwagon. Sure it will run for while but the engine would literally melt at some point. But why would it melt, it's fuel right? Because it wasn't manufactured for a normal combustible engine.

Second....Horribly misguided and uninformed? Are you an electronics engineer? I'll be the first to say that I am not, but if you think software cant ruin a phone, PC, internal components then think again. Try flashing a bios from a DFI M2R MB to a DFI M2RS MB and see what happenes. They have the same components but just a wee bit different. The M2RS has a 6 way phase converter and the M2R has an 8 way phase converter. All controlled by a little chip with firmware (software) AKA a rom...and known as a BIOS and if switched...*poof*...your mobo will be fried like an egg....

Originally Posted by gator352

OK.....first off, roms (read only memory), kinda like the bios in your PC, is on a flash based microchip. So it's not just storage. It is in a way a firmware controller. This firmware does happen to control the voltages, amps, and everything in between using software and hardware. If HTC decided to make hardware changes for manufacturing purposes that your not aware of ,then an older rom would and could damage your hardware. It could be like putting jet fuel in a stationwagon. Sure it will run for while but the engine would literally melt at some point. But why would it melt, it's fuel right? Because it wasn't manufactured for a normal combustible engine.

Second....Horribly misguided and uninformed? Are you an electronics engineer? I'll be the first to say that I am not, but if you think software cant ruin a phone, PC, internal components then think again. Try flashing a bios from a DFI M2R MB to a DFI M2RS MB and see what happenes. They have the same components but just a wee bit different. The M2RS has a 6 way phase converter and the M2R has an 8 way phase converter. All controlled by a little chip with firmware (software) AKA a rom...and known as a BIOS and if switched...*poof*...your mobo will be fried like an egg....

No, I'm not an electronics engineer. I understand the point you're making here, and yes, you're correct. It is 100% possible to damage hardware by flashing different software on to it. However, in situations like this, it just isn't going to happen. We're only flashing different software which came from another one of these phones. Reflashing a ROM on a PPC is more or less akin to reformatting your PC. If you bad flash a ROM here, it simply will not boot, the ROM on these devices doesn't have the hardware-level control to cause physical damage.

At the same time, HTC wouldn't make hardware changes in the same device, not that would cause problems like that anyway simply for the fact that they need to maintain interoperability. It would quickly come at great expense to them to maintain two hardware lines on the same phone, under the same name. Additionally, it's already been shown that even the TP2 shares many of the same components as the Touch Pro... They haven't needed to change it.

I'll even go as far as to say go ahead and try flashing a Titan ROM, or even something weirder. If the RUU will even let you, all it will do is hit the Touch Pro boot screen (where it goes to load the ROM), and sit there. You'll be able to re-flash it back to a TP ROM from there, no damage incurred. The firmware you're talking about, which can cause physical damage, and the ROMs for these phones are fundamentally different.

Also, if you put jet fuel in your car, chances are it wouldn't even run, or it would just ping and detonate, due to the fuel being for a different purpose - burning in open air - (and having a lower octane level). It would be equivalent to putting diesel fuel in your gasoline car. What does this really have to do with flashing ROMs here? Not much at all, it's a poor analogy for someone who really understands it.

Again, the vast majority of people here are flashing their phones with another ROM. While it's easy to conclude that it's the ROMs which are causing the problems, and may even be damaging phones... it would be like saying installing Linux on your PC caused your motherboard to burst into flames, while the computer was off, three weeks after you went back to Windows... no correlation as these ROMs don't change anything on the hardware level.

You should look into cooking your own ROM, and see what it really involves. Do some research on PC operating systems too. You'll notice a lot of similarities, and you'll quickly see that there isn't that much to worry about.

[gator352]

Originally Posted by ShadowDrake

No, I'm not an electronics engineer. I understand the point you're making here, and yes, you're correct. It is 100% possible to damage hardware by flashing different software on to it. However, in situations like this, it just isn't going to happen. We're only flashing different software which came from another one of these phones. Reflashing a ROM on a PPC is more or less akin to reformatting your PC. If you bad flash a ROM here, it simply will not boot, the ROM on these devices doesn't have the hardware-level control to cause physical damage.

At the same time, HTC wouldn't make hardware changes in the same device, not that would cause problems like that anyway simply for the fact that they need to maintain interoperability. It would quickly come at great expense to them to maintain two hardware lines on the same phone, under the same name. Additionally, it's already been shown that even the TP2 shares many of the same components as the Touch Pro... They haven't needed to change it.

I'll even go as far as to say go ahead and try flashing a Titan ROM, or even something weirder. If the RUU will even let you, all it will do is hit the Touch Pro boot screen (where it goes to load the ROM), and sit there. You'll be able to re-flash it back to a TP ROM from there, no damage incurred. The firmware you're talking about, which can cause physical damage, and the ROMs for these phones are fundamentally different.

Also, if you put jet fuel in your car, chances are it wouldn't even run, or it would just ping and detonate, due to the fuel being for a different purpose - burning in open air - (and having a lower octane level). It would be equivalent to putting diesel fuel in your gasoline car. What does this really have to do with flashing ROMs here? Not much at all, it's a poor analogy for someone who really understands it.

Again, the vast majority of people here are flashing their phones with another ROM. While it's easy to conclude that it's the ROMs which are causing the problems, and may even be damaging phones... it would be like saying installing Linux on your PC caused your motherboard to burst into flames, while the computer was off, three weeks after you went back to Windows... no correlation as these ROMs don't change anything on the hardware level.

You should look into cooking your own ROM, and see what it really involves. Do some research on PC operating systems too. You'll notice a lot of similarities, and you'll quickly see that there isn't that much to worry about.

I get your point. But, the analogy behind the jet fuel is the same. Most likely the car wouldn't start, your correct, but It's still fuel, made from petroleum, delivered and dispeneced the same way.

You're right that a bad rom will not boot, but drivers that are not designed for a particular piece of harware simply will not run correctly. It might boot, it might work, but you will get glitches and possibly hardware failure. Have you built a new PC with different hardware from your last, forgot to format and booted the new comp because you were excited? It will possibly boot everytime as winblows has proprietary drivers installed to just get the PC started so you can add the correct software, but you will soon see random shutdowns, restarts, corrupted graphics, etc., then possible frying of something on the new MB as your old drivers are designed differently. I have seen this happen.

Yes, HTC and other manufacturing facilities can and will change parts during manufacturing even if it's the same product if it benefits them. Electronics are built in batches or lots. During the first lot, they see a possible flaw and correct the problem. They make all possible changes and then manufacture the second lot. All on the same product line. Have you bought something electronic and noticed on the PCB that it's stamped REV. A? Then bought the same product a month later and it has REV. B stamped on it? That means they changed/added or deleted something from it. It's still the same board, same components but fundamentally different. Something you nor I will never notice unless we have the tech docs in hand.

I do agree that flashing a new rom most likely will not cause hardware failure, though it's possible. Most likely just glitches and other anomolies that can't be explained. All I'm trying to say is that, these people who flash new roms and then start having issues then bash/return the TP for their mistake is getting ridiculous. It hurts us, the consumer. Naw my TP runs perfect from day one (oct 27 build) and I see no reason to change it. If I had a second, I would flash the heck out of it for fun.

[jmorton10]

I think what is a much bigger problem than a user messing up the phone from their own lack of knowledge & then returning it as defective is the rash of "defective" phones we see every time a new model is introduced & everybody wants a "free upgrade"

Those are the users we all can thank for getting the deductible raised....

~John

[Darkjedi]

I for one would like to know how he magically compiled the 99% statistic of hardware failures due to custom ROMs. I had to replace my Mogul like 3 times and they always ran stock. I've had my TP for a couple months and the software started glitching up so bad that I wanted to try something different so I switched to MightyMikes ROM and now it runs way better than my stock ever did. I was hesitant to flash to a custom ROM because of it's "unofficial" status and adjusting to a slightly different OS, but I don't think I'll ever turn back to a stock ROM now.

The likelihood of a phone experiencing hardware difficulties due to a ROM is minimal. The Mogul was almost impossible to brick with ROM flashes, showing how robust the hardware actually is.

I also agree that asking how many people on this site use custom ROMs is going to yield you far more than the population statistic. Plus those who are more informed are more likely to report problems with their phones.