any one watching the press conference? 7/16/2010

[fozmsu]

Just a little FYI, you need to prove means, motive and opportunity to get a conviction. No body does not make that circumstacial. It just means it is missing a key piece of information. Circumstantial just means that for instance, the was a spary painting vandalism and the only thing they have on a suspect was that they were in a store that sells spray paint the day before. If there is no proof that they bought the spray paint, no proof that they were at the scene of the crime, there will be no conviction. I gaurantee that the case you pointed out had a lot more other evidence otherwise there would have been no conviction. And it was a lot more than just someone just saying he did it. That takes a lot more han one piece of hearsay circumstancial evidence. A lot more. But this is way off topic.

[testacon]

Originally Posted by fozmsu

Just a little FYI, you need to prove means, motive and opportunity to get a conviction. No body does not make that circumstacial. It just means it is missing a key piece of information. Circumstantial just means that for instance, the was a spary painting vandalism and the only thing they have on a suspect was that they were in a store that sells spray paint the day before. If there is no proof that they bought the spray paint, no proof that they were at the scene of the crime, there will be no conviction. I gaurantee that the case you pointed out had a lot more other evidence otherwise there would have been no conviction. And it was a lot more than just someone just saying he did it. That takes a lot more han one piece of hearsay circumstancial evidence. A lot more. But this is way off topic.

I know what circumstantial means, I was using this as a hyperbole to describe how I have very little doubt that Apple and Jobs knew about the reception problem prior to the phones release without any direct evidence. That in engineering 101 you know it's a very bad thing to short/ground antennas. Apple is a billion dollar company with 40 PhDs plus countless other grunts working on this phone. Just about every other cellular phone maker already knew this and commented this publicly as such that antennas don't go on the outside of phones near where hands may touch.

That is my "circumstantial" evidence that I provided you, no I wasn't a fly on the wall in a secret room with the "cone of silence" turned on. I'm saying that you just want to blindly accept anything that Lord Jobs is spewing even with this evidence starring at you in the face. Also note that this isn't a trial, its public perception and I think that a large number of the public will agree with me on this note, there are more then just the ~3 million people in the world that bought the new iPhone you know...

You can't have it both ways, either accept that Apple/Jobs is incompetent and has no business making cell phones, because a first year electronic student would have caught this issue, or that they choose beauty or function and released a defective phone and hoped no one would notice or cause this big a deal about it.

Who did you think probably leak the information to begin with? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it was one of the 40 PhD's that wanted the public to know that they were in fact on the ball and caught this, but they were later overruled by Lord Jobs. Don't you know that disgruntled employees make up the majority of whistleblowing accusations, they mentioned the head engineer by name, not just someone told Jobs.

I'm sorry to have busted your bubble that Apple can do no wrong philosophy, but they can and have. All companies will always place the almighty dollar over what's right including Apple. Live with it and stop being so naive and trusting.

Finally I'm not saying Apple produces horrible electronics, I have the latest iPod made (jailbroken of course) and I'll probably get the iPad once iOS4 is out and jailbroken too. I'm saying that Jobs is a pompous a$$ and I love when he is put in his place publicly by anyone. I don't like Apple's censorship and I want more choices in the Apple store with less denied apps. Apple treats all of it's customers like underage high school students and frankly I don't need another "big brother" controlling my day to day lifestyle.

[fozmsu]

Originally Posted by testacon

I know what circumstantial means, I was using this as a hyperbole to describe how I have very little doubt that Apple and Jobs knew about the reception problem prior to the phones release without any direct evidence. That in engineering 101 you know it's a very bad thing to short/ground antennas. Apple is a billion dollar company with 40 PhDs plus countless other grunts working on this phone. Just about every other cellular phone maker already knew this and commented this publicly as such that antennas don't go on the outside of phones near where hands may touch.

That is my "circumstantial" evidence that I provided you, no I wasn't a fly on the wall in a secret room with the "cone of silence" turned on. I'm saying that you just want to blindly accept anything that Lord Jobs is spewing even with this evidence starring at you in the face. Also note that this isn't a trial, its public perception and I think that a large number of the public will agree with me on this note, there are more then just the ~3 million people in the world that bought the new iPhone you know...

You can't have it both ways, either accept that Apple/Jobs is incompetent and has no business making cell phones, because a first year electronic student would have caught this issue, or that they choose beauty or function and released a defective phone and hoped no one would notice or cause this big a deal about it.

Who did you think probably leak the information to begin with? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it was one of the 40 PhD's that wanted the public to know that they were in fact on the ball and caught this, but they were later overruled by Lord Jobs. Don't you know that disgruntled employees make up the majority of whistleblowing accusations, they mentioned the head engineer by name, not just someone told Jobs.

I'm sorry to have busted your bubble that Apple can do no wrong philosophy, but they can and have. All companies will always place the almighty dollar over what's right including Apple. Live with it and stop being so naive and trusting.

Finally I'm not saying Apple produces horrible electronics, I have the latest iPod made (jailbroken of course) and I'll probably get the iPad once iOS4 is out and jailbroken too. I'm saying that Jobs is a pompous a$$ and I love when he is put in his place publicly by anyone. I don't like Apple's censorship and I want more choices in the Apple store with less denied apps. Apple treats all of it's customers like underage high school students and frankly I don't need another "big brother" controlling my day to day lifestyle.

All right dude, fine, whatever. You missed everything that I have said. I have not blindly supported Apple nor will I with any company. You have presented no proof. You just accept what another claims as fact without proof. You represented it as a trial situation and then try to slam me for continuing your examples. You hate them to hate them. I get that. Fine with me. Re-read my first post. If you can't accept that, then I guess you just need to live with it. Say what you want. Claim what you want. While you're at it, go read the Bloomberg article and see that an unnamed source said the engineer told Jobs. The engineer didn't tell Bloomberg. Go read how Apple has a cell tower on campus which would give you full signal no matter how you held the phone. Hell, put it in a steel box and bury it in concrete and it would still get full signal right under a tower. That is my circumstacial evidence that I was using to show how it was possible they didn't know. That is all I said. Possible. So you and your 40 PHD's can shuffle off and have a beer together or whatever you want. I don't care as much as you do. Especially about a phone that you don't own, don't want to own, and probably wouldn't own if it was given to you for free. So please get over it since you obviously don't read what I write anyway. Enjoy your life and if you respond back to this to keep it going, I will know that I am right about you being obsessed with hating Apple and of course Me now.

[testacon]

Originally Posted by fozmsu

All right dude, fine, whatever. You missed everything that I have said. I have not blindly supported Apple nor will I with any company. You have presented no proof. You just accept what another claims as fact without proof. You represented it as a trial situation and then try to slam me for continuing your examples. You hate them to hate them. I get that. Fine with me. Re-read my first post. If you can't accept that, then I guess you just need to live with it. Say what you want. Claim what you want. While you're at it, go read the Bloomberg article and see that an unnamed source said the engineer told Jobs. The engineer didn't tell Bloomberg. Go read how Apple has a cell tower on campus which would give you full signal no matter how you held the phone. Hell, put it in a steel box and bury it in concrete and it would still get full signal right under a tower. That is my circumstacial evidence that I was using to show how it was possible they didn't know. That is all I said. Possible. So you and your 40 PHD's can shuffle off and have a beer together or whatever you want. I don't care as much as you do. Especially about a phone that you don't own, don't want to own, and probably wouldn't own if it was given to you for free. So please get over it since you obviously don't read what I write anyway. Enjoy your life and if you respond back to this to keep it going, I will know that I am right about you being obsessed with hating Apple and of course Me now.

I don't hate the iPhone, I do hate Steve Jobs though, I think of the iPhone as a cute handicapped toy, because of censorship in the app store. My 4 year old loves my iPod and plays with it frequently. Jobs neuters the device to be properly used in a business or professional environment but they are improving on that somewhat. Your are right that I would never own an iPhone, on AT&T that is, not right however if they went to Verizon or Sprint and the reception issue is fixed and the phone is jailbroken. I would get the iPhone over whatever crap they are now calling WP7 which I think M$ stole the whole concept from Apple. And why the hell would I hate you? What, I'm I five years old or something? Two adults can have a intense discussion and still get along outside of the discussion? For the record though, I still say you're wrong and they knew about it!!!

[fozmsu]

Originally Posted by testacon

I don't hate the iPhone, I do hate Steve Jobs though, I think of the iPhone as a cute handicapped toy, because of censorship in the app store. My 4 year old loves my iPod and plays with it frequently. Jobs neuters the device to be properly used in a business or professional environment but they are improving on that somewhat. Your are right that I would never own an iPhone, on AT&T that is, not right however if they went to Verizon or Sprint and the reception issue is fixed and the phone is jailbroken. I would get the iPhone over whatever crap they are now calling WP7 which I think M$ stole the whole concept from Apple. And why the hell would I hate you? What, I'm I five years old or something? Two adults can have a intense discussion and still get along outside of the discussion? For the record though, I still say you're wrong and they knew about it!!!

Had to have that last word in the last sentence, huh? I don't care. Obsessive.

[testacon]

Originally Posted by fozmsu

Had to have that last word in the last sentence, huh? I don't care. Obsessive.

Wow, like I am the only sarcastic person in these forums, while I do agree with my last statement in full--it was a JOKE to try and throw off the tension in here...

Sorry to have converse with you...

[gTen]

It is highly possible for them not to know about the antenna issue...when you do a test for signal you usually would not touch the device..you would leave a testing program on the phone and drive around by car to see the results....

I do not think an engineer can just knock on Steve Jobs door and say "hey here is a possible problem with the antenna"...neither do I think Steve Jobs is actually sitting there designing the phone himself...

So it is highly possible that engineer can submit a claim for this bug and it was under low priority...

If you think about it, humans do a lot of amazing things but end up overlooking the most simple of things...I remember reading an article about some equation which none of the mathematicians could solve for years, and a college kid solves it by accident cause eh thought it was homework...

Either way it is neglect on Apple's part...and it is not surprising considering apple is pretty new to the cellphone business...in their attempt to make the phone as thin as possible gave way to this overlooking...By next version they will most likely learn from it :/

[NIKKG]

Originally Posted by gTen

It is highly possible for them not to know about the antenna issue...when you do a test for signal you usually would not touch the device..you would leave a testing program on the phone and drive around by car to see the results....

I do not think an engineer can just knock on Steve Jobs door and say "hey here is a possible problem with the antenna"...neither do I think Steve Jobs is actually sitting there designing the phone himself...

So it is highly possible that engineer can submit a claim for this bug and it was under low priority...

If you think about it, humans do a lot of amazing things but end up overlooking the most simple of things...I remember reading an article about some equation which none of the mathematicians could solve for years, and a college kid solves it by accident cause eh thought it was homework...

Either way it is neglect on Apple's part...and it is not surprising considering apple is pretty new to the cellphone business...in their attempt to make the phone as thin as possible gave way to this overlooking...By next version they will most likely learn from it :/

Maybe they knew about it and didn't think its a big deal since probably 99% of iphone users have a case as well as a screen shield on theirs. Still to this day, I haven't met anyone without a case. I'm sure they exist somewhere out there, I just never seen them.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by NIKKG

Maybe they knew about it and didn't think its a big deal since probably 99% of iphone users have a case as well as a screen shield on theirs. Still to this day, I haven't met anyone without a case. I'm sure they exist somewhere out there, I just never seen them.

If they knew about this they wouldn't have done it..reason for that being is people were saying how its Apple's fault for dropped calls on previous models, and others are saying its AT&T fault..so why would they take a chance at making it worse? I know companies ship out to meet deadlines with issues all the time..but an issue as simple as this they could have easily avoided...

I mean they did a parts check and the iphone ends up costing them 170$ to manufacture...whats $10 more to say add a 2nd antenna to the device?

also, to note, most iphones I seen are without cases

[testacon]

Originally Posted by gTen

It is highly possible for them not to know about the antenna issue...when you do a test for signal you usually would not touch the device..you would leave a testing program on the phone and drive around by car to see the results....

I do not think an engineer can just knock on Steve Jobs door and say "hey here is a possible problem with the antenna"...neither do I think Steve Jobs is actually sitting there designing the phone himself...

So it is highly possible that engineer can submit a claim for this bug and it was under low priority...

If you think about it, humans do a lot of amazing things but end up overlooking the most simple of things...I remember reading an article about some equation which none of the mathematicians could solve for years, and a college kid solves it by accident cause eh thought it was homework...

Either way it is neglect on Apple's part...and it is not surprising considering apple is pretty new to the cellphone business...in their attempt to make the phone as thin as possible gave way to this overlooking...By next version they will most likely learn from it :/

Apple must have known, as I said previously, they chose aesthetics over function. This is Apple's 4th gen phone not their first. Hundreds of Apple employees had to touch this phone at some point of the design process. Who makes Apple's cellular chips--Broadcom, you don't think Broadcom gives Apple some sort of check list when you buy millions of chips from them, and how to test them out. Apple or another 3rd party partner probably knows to check for signal levels while holding the phone in your hand in multiple positions. This checklist has probably been handed down from the first gen iPhone or the first cell phone ever made for that matter.

What about SAR testing? In order to check how much RF radiation is going into your hand/head/waist you probably would test while holding the phone in all sorts of positions and have the phone produce varying degrees of signal power levels. I would think that every setting you can think of would be turned on during this test especially say signal db levels. The FCC probably even has a checklist of what cell phone makers need to do before submitting a phone to the FCC for approval. How did they not notice that if you touch the seam your signal drops by 20, 30 db's or more?

Now again it sound to me like Apple chose to ignore some of these checklists, but they had to know, they just had to...