any one watching the press conference? 7/16/2010

[fozmsu]

I want to see a third party do the testing with those phones that Jobs claims Apple did. Actually, it would be nice if a few third party companies did the testing.

[gTen]

It is highly possible for them not to know about the antenna issue...when you do a test for signal you usually would not touch the device..you would leave a testing program on the phone and drive around by car to see the results....

I do not think an engineer can just knock on Steve Jobs door and say "hey here is a possible problem with the antenna"...neither do I think Steve Jobs is actually sitting there designing the phone himself...

So it is highly possible that engineer can submit a claim for this bug and it was under low priority...

If you think about it, humans do a lot of amazing things but end up overlooking the most simple of things...I remember reading an article about some equation which none of the mathematicians could solve for years, and a college kid solves it by accident cause eh thought it was homework...

Either way it is neglect on Apple's part...and it is not surprising considering apple is pretty new to the cellphone business...in their attempt to make the phone as thin as possible gave way to this overlooking...By next version they will most likely learn from it :/

[NIKKG]

Originally Posted by gTen

It is highly possible for them not to know about the antenna issue...when you do a test for signal you usually would not touch the device..you would leave a testing program on the phone and drive around by car to see the results....

I do not think an engineer can just knock on Steve Jobs door and say "hey here is a possible problem with the antenna"...neither do I think Steve Jobs is actually sitting there designing the phone himself...

So it is highly possible that engineer can submit a claim for this bug and it was under low priority...

If you think about it, humans do a lot of amazing things but end up overlooking the most simple of things...I remember reading an article about some equation which none of the mathematicians could solve for years, and a college kid solves it by accident cause eh thought it was homework...

Either way it is neglect on Apple's part...and it is not surprising considering apple is pretty new to the cellphone business...in their attempt to make the phone as thin as possible gave way to this overlooking...By next version they will most likely learn from it :/

Maybe they knew about it and didn't think its a big deal since probably 99% of iphone users have a case as well as a screen shield on theirs. Still to this day, I haven't met anyone without a case. I'm sure they exist somewhere out there, I just never seen them.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by NIKKG

Maybe they knew about it and didn't think its a big deal since probably 99% of iphone users have a case as well as a screen shield on theirs. Still to this day, I haven't met anyone without a case. I'm sure they exist somewhere out there, I just never seen them.

If they knew about this they wouldn't have done it..reason for that being is people were saying how its Apple's fault for dropped calls on previous models, and others are saying its AT&T fault..so why would they take a chance at making it worse? I know companies ship out to meet deadlines with issues all the time..but an issue as simple as this they could have easily avoided...

I mean they did a parts check and the iphone ends up costing them 170$ to manufacture...whats $10 more to say add a 2nd antenna to the device?

also, to note, most iphones I seen are without cases

[NIKKG]

Originally Posted by gTen

If they knew about this they wouldn't have done it..reason for that being is people were saying how its Apple's fault for dropped calls on previous models, and others are saying its AT&T fault..so why would they take a chance at making it worse? I know companies ship out to meet deadlines with issues all the time..but an issue as simple as this they could have easily avoided...

I mean they did a parts check and the iphone ends up costing them 170$ to manufacture...whats $10 more to say add a 2nd antenna to the device?

also, to note, most iphones I seen are without cases

iphone does not cost 170 to manufacture, I would say its no more than 40-50 bucks tops. In fact, no phone cost more than 50 bucks, that includes EVO and anything else.

The most likely price breakdown for each phone:
lcd: $5
chip: 5
memory: 2
motherboard: 1
housing: 2
labor: .50
shipping:1
licensing and R & D: 30

These phones and computers don't cost nothing to make when you have slave labor. The real price comes from the actual sand, silicon, metal, and plastic which is no more than a few cents. The biggest chunk is licensing and research and the machinery.

If you don't believe me, check out some laptop prices. I've seen some laptops go on sale at retail for 300 or less. Think about it, the retailer makes their markup, the manufacturer makes their profit, and all the component suppliers make theirs including the shipping companies.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by NIKKG

iphone does not cost 170 to manufacture, I would say its no more than 40-50 bucks tops. In fact, no phone cost more than 50 bucks, that includes EVO and anything else.

The most likely price breakdown for each phone:
lcd: $5
chip: 5
memory: 2
motherboard: 1
housing: 2
labor: .50
shipping:1
licensing and R & D: 30

These phones and computers don't cost nothing to make when you have slave labor. The real price comes from the actual sand, silicon, metal, and plastic which is no more than a few cents. The biggest chunk is licensing and research and the machinery.

If you don't believe me, check out some laptop prices. I've seen some laptops go on sale at retail for 300 or less. Think about it, the retailer makes their markup, the manufacturer makes their profit, and all the component suppliers make theirs including the shipping companies.

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...o-manufacture/

I meant to Apple....but Apple does not make their own components...

[testacon]

Originally Posted by gTen

It is highly possible for them not to know about the antenna issue...when you do a test for signal you usually would not touch the device..you would leave a testing program on the phone and drive around by car to see the results....

I do not think an engineer can just knock on Steve Jobs door and say "hey here is a possible problem with the antenna"...neither do I think Steve Jobs is actually sitting there designing the phone himself...

So it is highly possible that engineer can submit a claim for this bug and it was under low priority...

If you think about it, humans do a lot of amazing things but end up overlooking the most simple of things...I remember reading an article about some equation which none of the mathematicians could solve for years, and a college kid solves it by accident cause eh thought it was homework...

Either way it is neglect on Apple's part...and it is not surprising considering apple is pretty new to the cellphone business...in their attempt to make the phone as thin as possible gave way to this overlooking...By next version they will most likely learn from it :/

Apple must have known, as I said previously, they chose aesthetics over function. This is Apple's 4th gen phone not their first. Hundreds of Apple employees had to touch this phone at some point of the design process. Who makes Apple's cellular chips--Broadcom, you don't think Broadcom gives Apple some sort of check list when you buy millions of chips from them, and how to test them out. Apple or another 3rd party partner probably knows to check for signal levels while holding the phone in your hand in multiple positions. This checklist has probably been handed down from the first gen iPhone or the first cell phone ever made for that matter.

What about SAR testing? In order to check how much RF radiation is going into your hand/head/waist you probably would test while holding the phone in all sorts of positions and have the phone produce varying degrees of signal power levels. I would think that every setting you can think of would be turned on during this test especially say signal db levels. The FCC probably even has a checklist of what cell phone makers need to do before submitting a phone to the FCC for approval. How did they not notice that if you touch the seam your signal drops by 20, 30 db's or more?

Now again it sound to me like Apple chose to ignore some of these checklists, but they had to know, they just had to...

[gTen]

Originally Posted by testacon

Apple must have known, as I said previously, they chose aesthetics over function. This is Apple's 4th gen phone not their first. Hundreds of Apple employees had to touch this phone at some point of the design process. Who makes Apple's cellular chips--Broadcom, you don't think Broadcom gives Apple some sort of check list when you buy millions of chips from them, and how to test them out. Apple or another 3rd party partner probably knows to check for signal levels while holding the phone in your hand in multiple positions. This checklist has probably been handed down from the first gen iPhone or the first cell phone ever made for that matter.

They did test and it probably came out fine..remember Apple out of all the companies tries to hide their cellphones the most.. remember the Gizmodo incidence...one phone gets leaked a month or 2 in advanced and they go crazy...

Somethings show up in a checklist yes..but it doesn't tell you whether to keep the antenna inside or outside...old phones used to have antennas on outside...but they were on top...after the FCC made them put them on the bottom to most companies they saw best performance when it was inside...Apple wasn't there for that testing phase and thought they were being "innovative"..I remember before it came out them BRAGGING how they wrapped the antenna around that way to make it better...they clearly just didn't know what they were doing...it sounds good on paper but not practical..

What about SAR testing? In order to check how much RF radiation is going into your hand/head/waist you probably would test while holding the phone in all sorts of positions and have the phone produce varying degrees of signal power levels. I would think that every setting you can think of would be turned on during this test especially say signal db levels. The FCC probably even has a checklist of what cell phone makers need to do before submitting a phone to the FCC for approval. How did they not notice that if you touch the seam your signal drops by 20, 30 db's or more?

SAR testing is not done by a person putting the device to their head and testing..its done by a machine..if you look at the FCC documents they got an overview of how they do the testing..

Now again it sound to me like Apple chose to ignore some of these checklists, but they had to know, they just had to...

If anything its negligence on their part..simple as that...

[testacon]

Originally Posted by gTen

Apple wasn't there for that testing phase and thought they were being "innovative"..I remember before it came out them BRAGGING how they wrapped the antenna around that way to make it better...they clearly just didn't know what they were doing...it sounds good on paper but not practical..

I thought that when the phone was found in the bar someone on gizmodo speculated that the phone would have these very issues if that was the antenna on the outside of the phone. All I can find now easily was at least 2 weeks before release of the phone it was on the internet via http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/26/i...-by-danish-pr/ and all this by looking at the dissection pictures. You don't think Apple was trolling through all the forums after the gizmodo story leaked. I still think they knew even before this article but how much more do I have to show before we all agree that they knew before the release date?

[gTen]

Originally Posted by testacon

I thought that when the phone was found in the bar someone on gizmodo speculated that the phone would have these very issues if that was the antenna on the outside of the phone. All I can find now easily was at least 2 weeks before release of the phone it was on the internet via http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/26/i...-by-danish-pr/ and all this by looking at the dissection pictures. You don't think Apple was trolling through all the forums after the gizmodo story leaked. I still think they knew even before this article but how much more do I have to show before we all agree that they knew before the release date?

I am not saying they did not know about it before the release date..but I am saying it is possible for them to not to have known about it till already after they manufactured them in bulk...at that point there is no turning back for a company....similar to what happened with Windows ME...M$ played dumb saying no there is no memory leak issue...even though you can tell there was cause after opening paint brush your pc would slow down to a crawl (They also forced manufacturers not to sell the older OS and ONLY have ME)...and after a long time they finally admitted to the bug..and they have a working fix..that fix being buying windows XP, as a fix for ME was impossible....


But to say Apple knew about this when they initial designed the product is a stretch...