any one watching the press conference? 7/16/2010

[testacon]

Originally Posted by orangekid

Here's the Q & A, note he didn't "lie" according to him. You have to get more than one side of a story instead of just running with a rumor. (I bolded the applicable part)

Q: Were you warned about this issue?
A: Steve: I assume you're talking about the Bloomberg article. It's a crock. I've challenged them to prove it. I've talked to Ruben (the antenna engineer who supposedly warned Jobs during the design process) and he agrees it's bullshit.

<BEGIN RANT>

So you'd have me believe that the entire Apple company doesn't have a single person that picked up the phone with their left hand? Or is Steve simply hiring disabled people with missing pinky fingers? He wants us to prove it, but he forbids the engineer to talk to the press, why? How's this, lets put Jobs and the engineer to a lie detector test if they truly have nothing to hide. I'm not running with a rumor, I'm using deductive reasoning: they worked on the phone for at least a year, and it took the public a whole day or so to find this minor flaw--really? It's not like Jobs and company ever lied about anything before, like an email that they didn't send--oh wait, that happened, didn't it? Weren't the headers shown proving that it came from an Apple server? I guess I should just buy whatever spew they're slinging because I have no basis to form an opinion.

Apple is so meticulous about their designs and I'm sure they went for aesthetics on this phone before functionality as the article implies. Why is this so difficult to accept? Jobs should have just come clean, or charged a couple of dollars more and included the bumper. My wife has a Sprint Katana, the manual of which clearly states that, "To maximize performance, do not obstruct the bottom portion of your phone where the internal antenna is located while using the phone." So I guess this 2006 phone was made and documented by better engineers than that of Apple. If they failed Antenna design 101, then perhaps the FCC should revoke Apple's approval because the batteries are likely to explode next, cause that couldn't happen either--right?

<END RANT>

[fozmsu]

Originally Posted by testacon

<BEGIN RANT>

So you'd have me believe that the entire Apple company doesn't have a single person that picked up the phone with their left hand? Or is Steve simply hiring disabled people with missing pinky fingers? He wants us to prove it, but he forbids the engineer to talk to the press, why? How's this, lets put Jobs and the engineer to a lie detector test if they truly have nothing to hide. I'm not running with a rumor, I'm using deductive reasoning: they worked on the phone for at least a year, and it took the public a whole day or so to find this minor flaw--really? It's not like Jobs and company ever lied about anything before, like an email that they didn't send--oh wait, that happened, didn't it? Weren't the headers shown proving that it came from an Apple server? I guess I should just buy whatever spew they're slinging because I have no basis to form an opinion.

Apple is so meticulous about their designs and I'm sure they went for aesthetics on this phone before functionality as the article implies. Why is this so difficult to accept? Jobs should have just come clean, or charged a couple of dollars more and included the bumper. My wife has a Sprint Katana, the manual of which clearly states that, "To maximize performance, do not obstruct the bottom portion of your phone where the internal antenna is located while using the phone." So I guess this 2006 phone was made and documented by better engineers than that of Apple. If they failed Antenna design 101, then perhaps the FCC should revoke Apple's approval because the batteries are likely to explode next, cause that couldn't happen either--right?

<END RANT>

Actually, it is possible that they had limited idea about it. A tech blog, I don't remember which one and it doesn't matter because it was the authors opinion, pointed out that it may have been missed because all of the field test phones were required to be put in a case to make it resemble a 3GS. A case is proven to take care of the problem in almost all cases. The field test cases were proven to exist by the phone recovered by gizmodo. Also, email headers can be faked when all you are shown is a supposed copy of an email. Pretty much every company in this kind of situation will not allow their employees to talk to the press. This guy can talk if he wants, but he will lose his job and then no other company will hire him because he will be labled as a whistle blower. This is all common practice amongst companies that f**k up. Just look at how the XBOX 360 ordeal went down. It basically took a court order for Microsoft to address the problem and extend the warranty. I also have to believe that tech companies like Apple have signal boosters in their building which could have also helped hide the problem. That's just my 2 cents though

[austin420]

good answer.

[testacon]

Originally Posted by fozmsu

Actually, it is possible that they had limited idea about it. A tech blog, I don't remember which one and it doesn't matter because it was the authors opinion, pointed out that it may have been missed because all of the field test phones were required to be put in a case to make it resemble a 3GS. A case is proven to take care of the problem in almost all cases. The field test cases were proven to exist by the phone recovered by gizmodo. Also, email headers can be faked when all you are shown is a supposed copy of an email. Pretty much every company in this kind of situation will not allow their employees to talk to the press. This guy can talk if he wants, but he will lose his job and then no other company will hire him because he will be labled as a whistle blower. This is all common practice amongst companies that f**k up. Just look at how the XBOX 360 ordeal went down. It basically took a court order for Microsoft to address the problem and extend the warranty. I also have to believe that tech companies like Apple have signal boosters in their building which could have also helped hide the problem. That's just my 2 cents though

You missed my point entirely, I'm calling Jobs out that he knew about the problem as my link originally stated. I really didn't expect the engineer to talk, of course he isn't going to hurt his career or open himself up to a lawsuit. Jobs is just a pompous a$$ saying, "I've challenged them to prove it..." and not allowing anyone to talk to his employees directly to verify anything.

Some more reading for you entertainment:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/i...ng-facilities/

Here's something to think about:

He also informed us that there were 40 engineers working in those labs who were experts and held PhDs in physics, telemetry, and all matter of dark arts that allow the company to continually develop and test wireless technologies.

So again, I'm sure people have been aware for many more years that touching an antenna can severely diminish signal strength but I find documentation going back to at least 2006. My non-PhD degree knew about this problem. So will you blindly defend 40 PhDs that are either clearly incompetent or just conclude that Jobs lied. Which one makes more sense to you? I completely understand that at the very end of the testing phase they put the phone in cases and went out into the public to test in the real world--sure I get that. So this means you think that the phone wasn't touch directly by human hands until a few months before release? Have you ever heard of signal db levels? It doesn't matter at all whether a phone has 5 bars or 1, you get solid numbers say -51 db for 5 bars and about -113 db for 1 bar. If I hold the phone in my hand and it fluctuates slightly no harm no foul. But if suddenly I shift to one position and the numbers jump by a significant number like 20 or more (and wait for it--CONSISTENTLY), that's going to raise some flags during testing. It doesn't matter if I'm standing right next to a transmitter or not. Have you even held the phone yet? The first thing I touched was the antenna seem wondering what it was, your fingers are almost drawn to it.

I guess I should take this as a complement that you believe that I'm smarter than 40 PhDs, because if I can figure out a simple testing scheme that could have been used to find this problem and Apple couldn't, please talk to Apple on my behalf and insist on my expensive gainful employment there.

[fozmsu]

Your link says Jobs knew. Jobs says he didn't know. All I did was point out how they could have had limited knowledge of it. Just take it for what it's worth. And yes i have held one. Right under my name says i have one. I am not having the deathgrip problem. I He-Man kung-Fu deathgripped it and only got it to drop one bar. I don't know why I am so lucky. The phone works great for me. I am still a little unclear why the human hand disrupts the signal so much. When I was a kid, I used to make my sister put her hand on the rabbit ear antenna to make the picture come in clearer. It didn't change the angle or the posistion of the antenna at all. Just wondering why that worked and today it is the cause of grief for so many others? Different kinds of signals or tv has more strength behind their signal? Thoughts anyone?

[Dr.8820]

rim responds lmao http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/...comment-968372 http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/17/r...ntenna-statem/

Apple’s attempt to draw RIM into Apple’s self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple’s claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public’s understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple’s difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM’s customers don’t need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple.

[fozmsu]

I want to see a third party do the testing with those phones that Jobs claims Apple did. Actually, it would be nice if a few third party companies did the testing.

[testacon]

Originally Posted by fozmsu

Your link says Jobs knew. Jobs says he didn't know. All I did was point out how they could have had limited knowledge of it. Just take it for what it's worth. And yes i have held one. Right under my name says i have one. I am not having the deathgrip problem. I He-Man kung-Fu deathgripped it and only got it to drop one bar. I don't know why I am so lucky. The phone works great for me. I am still a little unclear why the human hand disrupts the signal so much. When I was a kid, I used to make my sister put her hand on the rabbit ear antenna to make the picture come in clearer. It didn't change the angle or the posistion of the antenna at all. Just wondering why that worked and today it is the cause of grief for so many others? Different kinds of signals or tv has more strength behind their signal? Thoughts anyone?

Ok, you're being literal--I get it now.

No, I concede on the literal point, I do not know 100% for sure that Jobs knew about this design flaw, so I'll give that to you.

On the other hand I will say that this evidence that I provided is probably equivalent enough that if this, was say, a "criminal trial" for murder. This circumstantial evidence is enough for a "life conviction" or a death penalty sentencing.

Turn to the rabbit ears discussion, I think that when your sister touched the antenna she became part of the antenna enhancing the radio signals making their way into the TV--which is a one directional piece of equipment.

I think the seams on the iPhone is actually two separate antennas with a fashionable gab between them. Placing your fingers and bridging them partially shorts or grounds out both of the antennas to some degree and your signal plummets.

[fozmsu]

Originally Posted by testacon

Ok, your being literal--I get it now.

No, I concede on the literal point, I do not know 100% for sure that Jobs knew about this design flaw, so I'll give that to you.

On the other hand I will say that this evidence that I provided is probably equivalent enough that if this, was say, a "criminal trial" for murder. This circumstantial evidence is enough for a "life conviction" or a death penalty sentencing.

Turn to the rabbit ears discussion, I think that when your sister touched the antenna she became part of the antenna enhancing the radio signals making their way into the TV--which is a one directional piece of equipment.

I think the seams on the iPhone is actually two separate antennas with a fashionable gab between them. Placing your fingers and bridging them partially shorts or grounds out both of the antennas to some degree and your signal plummets.

So maybe it's not so much with the covering the antenna, but just the bridging of the two that makes them go haywire. Maybe if you just touch one of them it will make that particular antenna's signal clearer. But as far as your evidence, circumstancial isn't enough to get a conviction. That is like trying to convict someone of bank robbery just because they have an account at that bank. As of right now, this whole deal about weather Jobs new or not is coming down to a whole mess of he said she said. And to stay with the court example, the burden of proof does lie with the accuser. I am not saying that real proof won't surface eventually, but right now it's not there yet. We can't just accept what people say as fact without proof. Everyone wants, icluding me, to see a third party do this testing on other phones that Jobs says they did. All kinds of people are quick to say he's lying without proof. Many of those same people are quick to accept as fact this report without the proof. As far as I can see, it is the same thing as if I were to accuse you of touching my dog in an inappropriate way. You of course would deny it and then all we are left with is public opinion of the both of us to decide who is lying. The real point of the matter is what does it matter until proof shows up. Even if it does show up, what can be done about it? Jobs will be proven a liar and sure they lose some money in the short term, but over all they will move past this like a minor speed bump. The people who hate Apple, hate Apple and the people who love them, love them. Then there are those like me in the middle who just look for a good product. I believe I got one. The only real people that will ever be influenced by this stuff are the ones in the middle. Those people will fluxuate back and forth with no real change for either side. It really is a pointless fight. Until I start to have these problems I will continue to be very happy with my phone. All I know is that when it works, boy does it work. And so far, mine has worked all the time since day one. If it ever does take a crap on me, I will be sure everyone hears about it. It doesn't mean I will just start bashing Apple though. It doesn't mean I won't bash either.

[testacon]

Originally Posted by fozmsu

So maybe it's not so much with the covering the antenna, but just the bridging of the two that makes them go haywire. Maybe if you just touch one of them it will make that particular antenna's signal clearer. But as far as your evidence, circumstancial isn't enough to get a conviction. That is like trying to convict someone of bank robbery just because they have an account at that bank. As of right now, this whole deal about weather Jobs new or not is coming down to a whole mess of he said she said. And to stay with the court example, the burden of proof does lie with the accuser. I am not saying that real proof won't surface eventually, but right now it's not there yet. We can't just accept what people say as fact without proof. Everyone wants, icluding me, to see a third party do this testing on other phones that Jobs says they did. All kinds of people are quick to say he's lying without proof. Many of those same people are quick to accept as fact this report without the proof. As far as I can see, it is the same thing as if I were to accuse you of touching my dog in an inappropriate way. You of course would deny it and then all we are left with is public opinion of the both of us to decide who is lying. The real point of the matter is what does it matter until proof shows up. Even if it does show up, what can be done about it? Jobs will be proven a liar and sure they lose some money in the short term, but over all they will move past this like a minor speed bump. The people who hate Apple, hate Apple and the people who love them, love them. Then there are those like me in the middle who just look for a good product. I believe I got one. The only real people that will ever be influenced by this stuff are the ones in the middle. Those people will fluxuate back and forth with no real change for either side. It really is a pointless fight. Until I start to have these problems I will continue to be very happy with my phone. All I know is that when it works, boy does it work. And so far, mine has worked all the time since day one. If it ever does take a crap on me, I will be sure everyone hears about it. It doesn't mean I will just start bashing Apple though. It doesn't mean I won't bash either.

You better check your records, circumstantial evidence gets plenty of convictions as shown here:

http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_sc...h-no-body.html

You don't need a smoking gun (or body) in this day and age to find anyone guilty. It's all about reasonable doubt, and frankly I have little doubt.

So Apple tries to place blame and point to RIM and others that there phones are shotty too, except that slightly blocking a cellular signal isn't nearly as bad to signal loss as grounding or shorting out antennas.

All I'm saying is that there is NO way possible that 40 PhD's missed this problem and someone had to have told Jobs in the early development stages that something like this was going to happen. Every other cellular company has known this for years. This is a BILLION dollar company, are you telling me that they are just incompetent or just one man overrode style over function?

Has anyone gotten fired yet for dropping the ball, no. Why? Because someone has dated documented proof (most likely) and if they DID get fired this proof would come out in a lawsuit against Apple and they would get POWNED in court.