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-   -   WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition (http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=54678)

dan-htc-touch 04-22-2009 04:45 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vickylife007 (Post 869165)
Tells me "Login failed for user 'vickylife007'

try again, and don't forget your password this time.. youve been reset by gguru

vickylife007 04-22-2009 05:25 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-htc-touch (Post 869241)
try again, and don't forget your password this time.. youve been reset by gguru

Great! Login successful, thanks. This is new territory for me, i.e. ppck, so I'd rather do a lot of reading first, but just know I'd be knocking on your door anytime I'd come against a wall.

joojoobee666 04-22-2009 06:18 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
This one goes out to Dan-htc-touch and GguruUsa specifically, but any one is welcome to answer this:

What exactly is the difference between a module or file? This is the only tidbit I have been able to dig up so far:

"A module is a file as it is while loaded in memory... the purpose is to make it executable directly from ROM without loading it into RAM"

I suspect this doesn't apply to new phones since they use NAND flash and not XOR. So does this mainly affect the just the XIP now?

jdume 04-22-2009 08:08 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dsi76 (Post 869087)
Hey Jdume,

Some people have complained that when they use your your dialer skin with the Elf (GSM) the calls that they receive show up as "Unknown Caller", but in the Call History the name is there. Any idea what could be wrong?

Nope never heard of that before???? But I never known of anyone tring my dialers on a gsm phone either. Sorry bro no idea.....:(

mattsm 04-22-2009 08:24 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jdume (Post 869680)
Nope never heard of that before???? But I never known of anyone tring my dialers on a gsm phone either. Sorry bro no idea.....:(

Dialer works fantastic. Thanks for that great app.


Vicky and Dan, I was able to change banner in qpst and all is working fine.
Thanks.
Could not get qpst to work on my vista64 but have no problems on vista32(figure that out later)
I am still going to play with cpr files cause that would be easier for some.


Leak Leak Leak -------- Where are you?

vickylife007 04-22-2009 08:43 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattsm (Post 869719)
Dialer works fantastic. Thanks for that great app.


Vicky and Dan, I was able to change banner in qpst and all is working fine.
Thanks.
Could not get qpst to work on my vista64 but have no problems on vista32(figure that out later)
I am still going to play with cpr files cause that would be easier for some.


Leak Leak Leak -------- Where are you?

That may be a very tall order, the cpr in this case only reads what is displayed by your phone, but maybe if u discover what resouce it reads from and redirect that like we did with the condensed.................... anyway share if you discover the answer.

dsi76 04-22-2009 09:58 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jdume (Post 869680)
Nope never heard of that before???? But I never known of anyone tring my dialers on a gsm phone either. Sorry bro no idea.....:(

Well, I put a SIM card in my spare Elf, and tried calling the number... and the caller ID worked fine for me! Oh well, it probably is some other issue they created themselves.

dan-htc-touch 04-23-2009 01:29 AM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoobee666 (Post 869451)
This one goes out to Dan-htc-touch and GguruUsa specifically, but any one is welcome to answer this:

What exactly is the difference between a module or file? This is the only tidbit I have been able to dig up so far:

"A module is a file as it is while loaded in memory... the purpose is to make it executable directly from ROM without loading it into RAM"

I suspect this doesn't apply to new phones since they use NAND flash and not XOR. So does this mainly affect the just the XIP now?

modules are files that have a specific memory adress, and are used for xip (execute in place) basically, cant xip unless it's location is static

learner 04-23-2009 02:24 AM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA
 
can you pls help me with steps to change the language of my sgh-i900 from greman to english on WM 6.1 professional.

where to download etc

many thanks

[Edited to remove Email]

dan-htc-touch 04-23-2009 03:09 AM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by learner (Post 870570)
can you pls help me with steps to change the language of my sgh-i900 from greman to english on WM 6.1 professional.

where to download etc

many thanks

1. don't post e-mail on forums, you'll get spammed
2. sure, have you succesfully cooked roms for it?

dsi76 04-23-2009 09:55 AM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dsi76 (Post 862402)
Here's another issue...

Because I'm using the default WM6.5 dialer, I now have to use the default WM volume control as well. Otherwise the in-call volume will not work if you use the finger-friendly HTC Volume.

The problem is that in the Settings menu (or any menu other than the home screen), if I use the volume control, it is shifted too far to the right:

http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/2263/volume.jpg


Is there a solution for this? Maybe moving the taskbar speaker icon over to the left will help (although I don't know how to do this.. will need to search!)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zecanilis (Post 862576)
My workarround was to change the reg key:
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Shell\TaskBa r]
"ConsistentClockOrBattery"=dword:1

This way you will get more contact space to ok/close button and you will not have that problem because the battery icon will be in every window.
I know that this was a registry key for people that whould like to click at the battery icon to see the power metter. But i like this way better... :D

Cheers


Ok, I have a workaround for your issue, Zecanalis. You can replace the default battery icon with a battery icon which has a percentage inside it, so that you don't need to worry about going to the Power settings to see the value.

Here's one I used:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...79&postcount=1

There's probably a nicer QVGA one, but this does the job.

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 10:07 AM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-htc-touch (Post 870458)
modules are files that have a specific memory adress, and are used for xip (execute in place) basically, cant xip unless it's location is static

So basically there is no difference as far as the SYS and OEM files since they are not in the XIP. They can either be a module or a file without any performance gain/impact?

aaronpoweruser 04-23-2009 10:16 AM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
i cant change the notification settings in 21501
it opens but when i click ok it reverts to default and doesnt close the app

mattsm 04-23-2009 11:06 AM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronpoweruser (Post 870980)
i cant change the notification settings in 21501
it opens but when i click ok it reverts to default and doesnt close the app

I had this problem as well with one I cooked in the kitchen. Don't know what was causing the problem cause I left some things out and did a recook. Now the problem is not there. I did change comm manager on recook. That was the only thing I changed other than add more oems. Don't know if that was it or not. Had 10 button and on recook did not select any.

aaronpoweruser 04-23-2009 11:52 AM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattsm (Post 871077)
I had this problem as well with one I cooked in the kitchen. Don't know what was causing the problem cause I left some things out and did a recook. Now the problem is not there. I did change comm manager on recook. That was the only thing I changed other than add more oems. Don't know if that was it or not. Had 10 button and on recook did not select any.

right now i dont have any comm cooked in
i like simplisty and more ram :)

dan-htc-touch 04-23-2009 01:30 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoobee666 (Post 870954)
So basically there is no difference as far as the SYS and OEM files since they are not in the XIP. They can either be a module or a file without any performance gain/impact?

wrong, your confusing xip with xip-section, xip is not limited to the xip section

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 02:00 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-htc-touch (Post 871456)
wrong, your confusing xip with xip-section, xip is not limited to the xip section

I'm sure I am. The XIP does contains modules that run in XIP, but any other file that is in the imgfs as a module would run in XIP as well?

So do recmod and reversmode play into this at all? I was assuming that these convert files to modules/modules to files. If this is the case, would I be correct in assuming that by converting some of my files to modules with reversmode that the program/dll would then run in XIP, not freeing up more RAM, but opening quicker?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am STILL unable to find a good read somewhere with the whole breakdown.

dan-htc-touch 04-23-2009 02:25 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoobee666 (Post 871543)
I'm sure I am. The XIP does contains modules that run in XIP, but any other file that is in the imgfs as a module would run in XIP as well?

So do recmod and reversmode play into this at all? I was assuming that these convert files to modules/modules to files. If this is the case, would I be correct in assuming that by converting some of my files to modules with reversmode that the program/dll would then run in XIP, not freeing up more RAM, but opening quicker?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am STILL unable to find a good read somewhere with the whole breakdown.

from what I can tell, the reason for having a xip section, is to make it possible to handle the xip in a different way.

excerpt from MSDN:
Windows CE allows you to create multiple execute in place (XIP) regions in one single operating system (OS) image. XIP regions are areas where an application can execute code directly from read-only memory (ROM) rather than having to load it from random access memory (RAM).
With a multi-region image, you have finer control over the image layout, you can control region updates, and you can decide on a per-region basis how the OS will access that region when it pages its components at run time.

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 02:31 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-htc-touch (Post 871591)
from what I can tell, the reason for having a xip section, is to make it possible to handle the xip in a different way.

excerpt from MSDN:
Windows CE allows you to create multiple execute in place (XIP) regions in one single operating system (OS) image. XIP regions are areas where an application can execute code directly from read-only memory (ROM) rather than having to load it from random access memory (RAM).
With a multi-region image, you have finer control over the image layout, you can control region updates, and you can decide on a per-region basis how the OS will access that region when it pages its components at run time.

I did just manage to come across this little tidbit:
"The advantage of XIP modules comes into play when one considers the limited amount of RAM available on a typical Windows Mobile device. XIP modules are pre-relocated to a guaranteed available base address, and do not require any runtime alterations to their backing memory when mapped. As a result, XIP modules can be backed entirely by ROM and not RAM, decreasing the (scarce) RAM that must be devoted to holding executable code"

So, if I am reading this correctly, it would be advantageous to convert ANY program/dll that needs to stay loaded/in use for the entire boot into a module. This should in essence free more RAM? (HTC Task Manager is one example, Arcsoft being another, and possibly even some phone/canvas related resources)

And just going one step further, the XIP layout is what WMreloc is actually doing. It is creating the imgfs and XIP maps?

Zecanilis 04-23-2009 02:38 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronpoweruser (Post 871192)
right now i dont have any comm cooked in
i like simplisty and more ram :)

I had same problem with build 2500.
And when i resolved i didn't achieved any conclusion.
I changed somethings in my OEM folder, but at the end i replaced everything or almos everything back to the begining and all worked well... ](*,)

dan-htc-touch 04-23-2009 02:48 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoobee666 (Post 871602)
I did just manage to come across this little tidbit:
"The advantage of XIP modules comes into play when one considers the limited amount of RAM available on a typical Windows Mobile device. XIP modules are pre-relocated to a guaranteed available base address, and do not require any runtime alterations to their backing memory when mapped. As a result, XIP modules can be backed entirely by ROM and not RAM, decreasing the (scarce) RAM that must be devoted to holding executable code"

So, if I am reading this correctly, it would be advantageous to convert ANY program/dll that needs to stay loaded/in use for the entire boot into a module. This should in essence free more RAM? (HTC Task Manager is one example, Arcsoft being another, and possibly even some phone/canvas related resources)

And just going one step further, the XIP layout is what WMreloc is actually doing. It is creating the imgfs and XIP maps?


yeah, wmreloc relocates modules memory mapping adreesses, so that there are no overlaps, converting to module can be good, but does not work for everything, basically, only program code can be xip, content cannot, so in the case of phone canvas, the core executable may be xip, the all the graphics will still reside in RAM, so the savings will not be huge

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 03:00 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-htc-touch (Post 871634)
yeah, wmreloc relocates modules memory mapping adreesses, so that there are no overlaps, converting to module can be good, but does not work for everything, basically, only program code can be xip, content cannot, so in the case of phone canvas, the core executable may be xip, the all the graphics will still reside in RAM, so the savings will not be huge

Ahh ok, that makes sense. I already converted Arcsoft and Etphone.dll to modules in hopes of gaining some performance from it. So far, my text messaging does seem to be a bit more responsive (I guess it could be placebo). I am going to pull HTC Task Manager from the Geeks OEM, change the GUIDS and convert it as well. I guess I will see how it goes.

Do you know of why this would be a bad idea? Am I at risk of running out of slots for the modules?

dan-htc-touch 04-23-2009 03:13 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoobee666 (Post 871658)
Ahh ok, that makes sense. I already converted Arcsoft and Etphone.dll to modules in hopes of gaining some performance from it. So far, my text messaging does seem to be a bit more responsive (I guess it could be placebo). I am going to pull HTC Task Manager from the Geeks OEM, change the GUIDS and convert it as well. I guess I will see how it goes.

Do you know of why this would be a bad idea? Am I at risk of running out of slots for the modules?

it is possible to run out, but I have a bunch in my user oem as well, you should be fine, just don't go crazy with it

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 03:16 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-htc-touch (Post 871688)
it is possible to run out, but I have a bunch in my user oem as well, you should be fine, just don't go crazy with it

Cool, thanks for all the help:headbang:

conflipper 04-23-2009 03:43 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
be careful though, i know with g'reloc, you had to watch out, because sometimes you can get an overlap in memory address, so be careful, when you convert a lot test often so if it does get an overlap you will be able to narrow down, you can convert. .dll, .exe and .mui to module.

vickylife007 04-23-2009 03:47 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Wow, wow, wow!!! Learnt so much reading your dialogues, Dan and Joojoobee. But aint you guys forgetting something, today is THURSDAY. Aint we supposed to be expecting two drops today as in two major leaks? We've been anticipating.
And trust me no amount of xip, modules, files, rom and ram talk is "distractive" enough (permit my english".
Whet our appetites a bit, what's happening to those leaks?
Hey Joojoobee what about that cure we talked about?
Just another leak, that's all we ask for.:mrgreen:

dan-htc-touch 04-23-2009 03:47 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conflipper (Post 871772)
be careful though, i know with g'reloc, you had to watch out, because sometimes you can get an overlap in memory address, so be careful, when you convert a lot test often so if it does get an overlap you will be able to narrow down, you can convert. .dll, .exe and .mui to module.

this is true, while converting, take it slow, convert one or two, flash/verify it works ok, then move on, making too many changes at once can make problem tracking very difficult

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 03:55 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by conflipper (Post 871772)
be careful though, i know with g'reloc, you had to watch out, because sometimes you can get an overlap in memory address, so be careful, when you convert a lot test often so if it does get an overlap you will be able to narrow down, you can convert. .dll, .exe and .mui to module.

Isn'tWMReloc supposed to work better then G'Reloc now?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-htc-touch (Post 871787)
this is true, while converting, take it slow, convert one or two, flash/verify it works ok, then move on, making too many changes at once can make problem tracking very difficult

Yup, something didn't work right with the HTC Task Manager. The CPL comes up, but the actual icon in the corner isn't working. Going to recmod one at a time till I isolate it.

dan-htc-touch 04-23-2009 04:09 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoobee666 (Post 871810)
Isn'tWMReloc supposed to work better then G'Reloc now?



Yup, something didn't work right with the HTC Task Manager. The CPL comes up, but the actual icon in the corner isn't working. Going to recmod one at a time till I isolate it.

interestin that the icon would be missing...

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 04:14 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Well, that was easy. taskmgrCustRes.dll only has icons, so that was probably my problem:silent:

HTC Task Manager is now running as modules/XIP after recmodding that dll.

dan-htc-touch 04-23-2009 04:22 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoobee666 (Post 871855)
Well, that was easy. taskmgrCustRes.dll only has icons, so that was probably my problem:silent:

HTC Task Manager is now running as modules/XIP after recmodding that dll.

yeah, graphic resourse only .dll's don't like to be modules

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 04:30 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vickylife007 (Post 871784)
Wow, wow, wow!!! Learnt so much reading your dialogues, Dan and Joojoobee. But aint you guys forgetting something, today is THURSDAY. Aint we supposed to be expecting two drops today as in two major leaks? We've been anticipating.
And trust me no amount of xip, modules, files, rom and ram talk is "distractive" enough (permit my english".
Whet our appetites a bit, what's happening to those leaks?
Hey Joojoobee what about that cure we talked about?
Just another leak, that's all we ask for.:mrgreen:

True, but all of this work will not be lost on a new kitchen since this is for my User OEMs.:D

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 04:31 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dan-htc-touch (Post 871872)
yeah, graphic resourse only .dll's don't like to be modules

Yup, and that was proof:drunken:

aaronpoweruser 04-23-2009 05:47 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
1 Attachment(s)
ok i have 13-17 on boot after running oxis mb free in high memory mode on my titan in 2102 i had about 24 but i didnt have as many oems
also after letting the phone sit for 10 minutes opening no apps but start to get to oxis i am down to 16-13 is there any oem known to cause a memory leak?

i atached my oem selections

gguruusa 04-23-2009 06:08 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoobee666 (Post 871602)
I did just manage to come across this little tidbit:
"The advantage of XIP modules comes into play when one considers the limited amount of RAM available on a typical Windows Mobile device. XIP modules are pre-relocated to a guaranteed available base address, and do not require any runtime alterations to their backing memory when mapped. As a result, XIP modules can be backed entirely by ROM and not RAM, decreasing the (scarce) RAM that must be devoted to holding executable code"

So, if I am reading this correctly, it would be advantageous to convert ANY program/dll that needs to stay loaded/in use for the entire boot into a module. This should in essence free more RAM? (HTC Task Manager is one example, Arcsoft being another, and possibly even some phone/canvas related resources)

You are reading incorrectly.

First, unlike regular loading, xip modules have larger boundaries. Loading a code section that barely fills a region is very wasteful.

2nd, "Freeing more ram" is a misleading synopsis. What you are doing is consuming less RAM than you would if multiple programs needed the code section. You are consuming more memory than if no program needed the module.

3rd, scarce resources can be an issue when consumed by never-unloaded xip modules.

The moral: don't convert everything to xip. Candidates for conversion are things which are a) used frequently b) used by multiple programs and c) have code sections just under the boundary size.

gguruusa 04-23-2009 06:21 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronpoweruser (Post 872082)
ok i have 13-17 on boot after running oxis mb free in high memory mode on my titan in 2102 i had about 24 but i didnt have as many oems
also after letting the phone sit for 10 minutes opening no apps but start to get to oxis i am down to 16-13 is there any oem known to cause a memory leak?

What makes you say leak? A leak is something that continues to consume until you have none left. There are many reasons for memory to be "consumed" at any given time, regardless of whether you are doing anything.

There's a reason why punctuation is taught in grade school. Make punctuation your friend.

aaronpoweruser 04-23-2009 06:23 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gguruusa (Post 872180)
What makes you say leak? A leak is something that continues to consume until you have none left. There are many reasons for memory to be "consumed" at any given time, regardless of whether you are doing anything.

There's a reason why punctuation is taught in grade school. Make punctuation your friend.

i say leak because it continues to go down till i have 3-4 left and have to restart

aaronpoweruser 04-23-2009 06:41 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by joojoobee666 (Post 871658)
Ahh ok, that makes sense. I already converted Arcsoft and Etphone.dll to modules in hopes of gaining some performance from it. So far, my text messaging does seem to be a bit more responsive (I guess it could be placebo). I am going to pull HTC Task Manager from the Geeks OEM, change the GUIDS and convert it as well. I guess I will see how it goes.

Do you know of why this would be a bad idea? Am I at risk of running out of slots for the modules?

u wouldnt happen to know a link to a tutorial to do this

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 06:49 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Just for the sake of curiosity I converted my igo8.exe into a module and cooked it in. When I run it from the windows folder, igo8.exe opens up in half the time 10 secs as opposed to 20 secs), and leaves almost 4.5MB of free RAM STILL! When I run it from the storage card, it takes 20secs to open up and I have .5MB free. Holy sh*t!! eXecute In Place can really make a difference:headbang::headbang::headbang::headbang:

Thanks again, for clearing all of that up for me Dan and Conflipper!:mrgreen:

joojoobee666 04-23-2009 06:51 PM

Re: WM 6.5 Kitchen QVGA and VGA Developer Edition
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gguruusa (Post 872148)
You are reading incorrectly.

First, unlike regular loading, xip modules have larger boundaries. Loading a code section that barely fills a region is very wasteful.

2nd, "Freeing more ram" is a misleading synopsis. What you are doing is consuming less RAM than you would if multiple programs needed the code section. You are consuming more memory than if no program needed the module.

3rd, scarce resources can be an issue when consumed by never-unloaded xip modules.

The moral: don't convert everything to xip. Candidates for conversion are things which are a) used frequently b) used by multiple programs and c) have code sections just under the boundary size.

Yes, I understand I run the risk of killing my VM after some further reading. Is that what you are referring to?

Also, point 2 is WELL received. I noticed LESS ram after a clean boot. But loading programs that I XIP'd consume less now when running (see my iGO victory which is my main concern here. I use it alot and have to FREQUENTLY reboot to free up enough RAM. The executable is 5MB which is 25% of my free RAM alone. I know, it's probably an awfully large exe to be converting to a module, but what's the worst that can happen? A recook? Just another reason to do so....)


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