Evo 4g/Evo 3D

[gTen]

Originally Posted by BlackDynamite

I don't think it would have been locked. I think the necessary hboot would have "leaked" like it always has.

IT doesnt matter if someone poisons you then gives you a cure..doesn't change the fact that it was poisoned to begin with..wither way its irrevelant now..we shall see how it goes..

Not sure if you really don't know what you're talking about or if you are intentionally misrepresenting the facts here. In any case, HTC did a lot more than allow widgets to be created for Sense. People have been creating widgets for sense for years. That is nothing new. HTC is basically partnering with the dev community.

So show me Samsung's equivalent of this:
HTCdev - Development Center

If Samsung did this 2 years ago, it should be pretty easy to find...

Ok..first of all lets clear something up..

1) The OpenSense SDK is exactly that..just widgets that have access to Sense...it also allows apps to get access as well which before required dev to make a widget + app..but effectively same thing...HTC allowed to make widgets but there was no SDK for it...

2) There is an equivalent for that functionality in LG's Real 3d SDK..

LG Mobile Developer Network

3) Now..most importantly..lets clear something up..the "dev community" this appeals to is not US..its the dev community that makes apps in the marketplace..to US, anything short of having source code to HTC Sense is useless..making this "Open Sense SDK" or the "TouchWiz SDK" is not a step forward for us..its a step backwards..simply because it locks you down to using HTC or Samsung devices ONLY...This is in no way a good thing for US as a community..

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gTen

IT doesnt matter if someone poisons you then gives you a cure..doesn't change the fact that it was poisoned to begin with..wither way its irrevelant now..we shall see how it goes..

We were never poisoned. We had the "cure" before the "poison" ever hit us.

Originally Posted by gTen

Ok..first of all lets clear something up..

1) The OpenSense SDK is exactly that..just widgets that have access to Sense...it also allows apps to get access as well which before required dev to make a widget + app..but effectively same thing...HTC allowed to make widgets but there was no SDK for it...

No it isn't. It also allows you to make actual apps that have the "look and feel" of Sense. It also allows you to customize Sense and mod it in any way you like. It isn't just making widgets for Sense. Any random Android Widget also works in Sense. You don't need any special SDK to make a Widget that works in Sense.

Originally Posted by gTen

2) There is an equivalent for that functionality in LG's Real 3d SDK..

LG Mobile Developer Network

So is this you beating around the bush when what you really mean say is that you were wrong, and Samsung does NOT have an equivalent, and HTC is NOT just catching up to everyone else? If not, then let me make it clear for you by saying it myself: you were wrong. Samsung does NOT have an equivalent, and HTC was NOT just merely at best catching up to everyone else. HTC is once again setting the standard and proving that they are the best OEM for the dev community.

Originally Posted by gTen

3) Now..most importantly..lets clear something up..the "dev community" this appeals to is not US..its the dev community that makes apps in the marketplace..to US, anything short of having source code to HTC Sense is useless..making this "Open Sense SDK" or the "TouchWiz SDK" is not a step forward for us..its a step backwards..simply because it locks you down to using HTC or Samsung devices ONLY...This is in no way a good thing for US as a community..

What do you mean it doesn't appeal to us? Speak for yourself, it appeals to me a great deal. And I got an email from them that says:
"Hi.

Thanks for your interest HTC and the new developer program being built at htcdev.com. We'll be sure to email you at [email address removed] as soon as the site goes live and when there is other important HTCdev news.

Meanwhile, stay in touch and let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.

The HTCdev Team."


Not sure where you are getting your information that A) I am not an app developer, and B) HTCdev is not for me. I'll tell you this: you sure do make a lot of assumptions with not a lot of information to help come to those conclusions.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by BlackDynamite

We were never poisoned. We had the "cure" before the "poison" ever hit us.

Even if there was a cure..they still gave you the poison...

Either way its irrelevant now..

No it isn't. It also allows you to make actual apps that have the "look and feel" of Sense. It also allows you to customize Sense and mod it in any way you like. It isn't just making widgets for Sense. Any random Android Widget also works in Sense. You don't need any special SDK to make a Widget that works in Sense.

Well duh...you can run Android widgets on all UIs...the SDK is suppose to add the "look and feel part" and allow you to control UI unique elements..

So is this you beating around the bush when what you really mean say is that you were wrong, and Samsung does NOT have an equivalent, and HTC is NOT just catching up to everyone else? If not, then let me make it clear for you by saying it myself: you were wrong. Samsung does NOT have an equivalent, and HTC was NOT just merely at best catching up to everyone else.

you linked me to a page that says "stereoscopic and pen input api"..Samsung does not do 3d yet..hence I linked you to LG..the other stuff is already been done...

HTC is once again setting the standard and proving that they are the best OEM for the dev community.

And again you say this with no bases whatsoever...

What do you mean it doesn't appeal to us? Speak for yourself, it appeals to me a great deal. And I got an email from them that says:

so next your going to say the iphone appeals to you? let me explain..when manufacturers don't follow "standards" it makes things worse for us..because if next day your not with an HTC device all your work becomes useless...this is why people say Android is fragmented...and things like that just add to it..don't get me wrong, this is beneficial for HTC and may give us some short term benefits..but in long term its hurts our community...

Not sure where you are getting your information that A) I am not an app developer, and B) HTCdev is not for me. I'll tell you this: you sure do make a lot of assumptions with not a lot of information to help come to those conclusions.

I'm putting forth the same amount of information you are..for one..have you yourself tried TouchWiz SDK? if not how can you be so sure it doesn't already do all that?

But if you want to play like that I can too..

Here you go, Samsung sends a guy to XDA and officially on twitter announces they support XDA...not to mention is having private talks with all the developers on XDA that develop for samsung and offered to meat them at conventions to see how they can help.

Seeking To Defuse Tensions, Samsung Opens Dialogue With XDA-Dev Forum | mobilemakers

So..does this make samsung the best OEM?

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gTen

Even if there was a cure..they still gave you the poison...

Either way its irrelevant now..

They never gave me a poison. I have never owned an HTC device that wasn't able to be rooted or hard spl. But keep saying it if you want. It doesn't make it true, but it seems to make you happy so whatever.

Originally Posted by gTen

Well duh...you can run Android widgets on all UIs...the SDK is suppose to add the "look and feel part" and allow you to control UI unique elements..

No, that isn't it. They are allowing Sense to be modded, and apps to be written that have a Sense like interface, using code provided by HTC.

Originally Posted by gTen

you linked me to a page that says "stereoscopic and pen input api"..Samsung does not do 3d yet..hence I linked you to LG..the other stuff is already been done...

The page says a lot more than that.

Originally Posted by gTen

And again you say this with no bases whatsoever...

Plenty of basis. I guess there is no basis if you just make up your own version of the facts, sure. But here in the real world, HTC has pledged to leave all the bootloaders unlocked, provide a website for the modding community, and even assist the modding community by providing code, APIs, and SDKs.

Originally Posted by gTen

so next your going to say the iphone appeals to you? let me explain..when manufacturers don't follow "standards" it makes things worse for us..because if next day your not with an HTC device all your work becomes useless...this is why people say Android is fragmented...and things like that just add to it..don't get me wrong, this is beneficial for HTC and may give us some short term benefits..but in long term its hurts our community...

No, I am not going to say the iphone appeals to me. And if you really believe that what HTC is doing is harmful to the dev community, you're just crazy. There is no other way to describe it. HTC officially commits to unlocked bootloaders, agrees to not just allow Sense to be hacked up, but actually assist with it, provide a place to host cooked ROM's, API's, SDK's, source code, etc, and you actually think that is harmful to the modding community? Crazy is the only way to describe that. Well, I guess if you are just an HTC hater (which lets face it, you are) then it might be harmful to YOUR modding community because a lot of them will probably be flocking to HTC phones.

Originally Posted by gTen

I'm putting forth the same amount of information you are..for one..have you yourself tried TouchWiz SDK? if not how can you be so sure it doesn't already do all that?

You are absolutely NOT putting for the same information as me. You said HTC was merely catching up at best, to what everyone else did several years ago. I then linked to the HTCdev website and asked for the Samsung equivalent. Of course, it doesn't exist.

Originally Posted by gTen

Here you go, Samsung sends a guy to XDA and officially on twitter announces they support XDA...not to mention is having private talks with all the developers on XDA that develop for samsung and offered to meat them at conventions to see how they can help.

Seeking To Defuse Tensions, Samsung Opens Dialogue With XDA-Dev Forum | mobilemakers

So..does this make samsung the best OEM?

Are you serious? LOL! HTC has been doing that for YEARS. They hold meets all the time. The last one was in Montreal on June 1st. Before that, Toronto on May 30th. Before that, Vancouver on May 24th. There have been at least 10 such meets in the last 12 months, all put on, set up, hosted, etc, by HTC.
https://www.facebook.com/HTC?sk=pe

This isn't some "top secret" thing sent via PM on xda. This is public, HTC encouraging everyone to come, and talk to them in person. And if you look at their facebook and twitter pages, they respond to pretty much every tweet or message. Heck, their CEO personally responded via facebook and twitter to the locked bootloader drama. Not only that, but he also responded to everyone that emailed him about it. Not only that, but they just created a freaking website for the community which will be very similar to this PPC Geeks site (but only for HTC phones) and will be paid for by HTC, with HTC employees putting out all sorts of info in an official manner. There is no other OEM even close to this at the moment. HTC continues to set the standard.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by BlackDynamite

They never gave me a poison. I have never owned an HTC device that wasn't able to be rooted or hard spl. But keep saying it if you want. It doesn't make it true, but it seems to make you happy so whatever.

Wait.so your saying all those people complaining to HTC on their facebook page were just waisting their time?

No, that isn't it. They are allowing Sense to be modded, and apps to be written that have a Sense like interface, using code provided by HTC.

um..yes..that what an SDK does >.>

The page says a lot more than that.

like?

Plenty of basis. I guess there is no basis if you just make up your own version of the facts, sure. But here in the real world, HTC has pledged to leave all the bootloaders unlocked, provide a website for the modding community, and even assist the modding community by providing code, APIs, and SDKs.

umm..THEY ALL DO THAT...

No, I am not going to say the iphone appeals to me. And if you really believe that what HTC is doing is harmful to the dev community, you're just crazy. There is no other way to describe it. HTC officially commits to unlocked bootloaders, agrees to not just allow Sense to be hacked up, but actually assist with it, provide a place to host cooked ROM's, API's, SDK's, source code, etc, and you actually think that is harmful to the modding community?

hmm..Ive looked around the internet and I cant find anywhere where it says HTC will host cooked roms..can you link me to the source?

as for APIs, SDKs and source code everyone has that..and on that note HTC has had a bad history of complying with the GPL and rarely releases source code on time even though they are obligated to! The other manufacturers actually release source code on time (not all manufacturers but most do)

Crazy is the only way to describe that. Well, I guess if you are just an HTC hater (which lets face it, you are) then it might be harmful to YOUR modding community because a lot of them will probably be flocking to HTC phones.

You are misunderstanding exactly whats going on...HTC is not doing this to harm the community..they are doing this for their own financial reasons..I'm not blaming them..but it isnt exactly a good thing either..its a good thing short term but bad thing long term..simply because it makes code that is HTC only..aka lets say your on Sprint and you need a keyboard phone..and Sprint does not release an HTC keyboard phone for 2 years..you have 2 choices..dont upgrade or choose a different manufacturer..and when you swap..guess what..all those HTC only enchantments become useless...This is why things like Cyogenmod exists..to provide the same experience accross devices.

IF HTC did what was bet, it would partner with the other manufacturers to make a universal SDK that works on all UIs..but they wont do that..and neither will the others..simply because they want to lock people into their environment..and thats a correct financial decision for the company..its not exactly the best decision for us as a community who wants things to work on ALL devices...all the other manufacturers are guilty of this either..and I dont blame them..but understand its not exactly a good thing in the long run..

FYI...I've been using HTC devices since the HTC Apache...and now I use an HTC and a Samsung device..(I dual wield phones)..I dont "hate" any manufacturer..BUT I hate when people don't even look on the other side and consistently think their manufacturer makes the best device simply because they have it/never tried the other guy. My hope is to have anyone pick any device from any manufacturer and have a community, customizations and etc and not have to worry about the brand and just pick what fits best for their needs..

You are absolutely NOT putting for the same information as me. You said HTC was merely catching up at best, to what everyone else did several years ago. I then linked to the HTCdev website and asked for the Samsung equivalent. Of course, it doesn't exist.

um..ok..

Samsung Developers
http://opensource.samsung.com/
developer.lgmobile.com

I can go on...

Are you serious? LOL! HTC has been doing that for YEARS. They hold meets all the time. The last one was in Montreal on June 1st. Before that, Toronto on May 30th. Before that, Vancouver on May 24th. There have been at least 10 such meets in the last 12 months, all put on, set up, hosted, etc, by HTC.
https://www.facebook.com/HTC?sk=pe

I think you are misreading what I wrote..

1) Samsung and XDA announced a partnership

2) Samsung by themselves went to find devs and reach out to them via pm

Samsung has been doing general meetings ALL the time..this is the actually putting effort to reach out to the community..

This isn't some "top secret" thing sent via PM on xda. This is public, HTC encouraging everyone to come, and talk to them in person. And if you look at their facebook and twitter pages, they respond to pretty much every tweet or message. Heck, their CEO personally responded via facebook and twitter to the locked bootloader drama. Not only that, but he also responded to everyone that emailed him about it. Not only that, but they just created a freaking website for the community which will be very similar to this PPC Geeks site (but only for HTC phones) and will be paid for by HTC, with HTC employees putting out all sorts of info in an official manner. There is no other OEM even close to this at the moment. HTC continues to set the standard.

All the other manufacturers already do this and have been doing this for a long time...why do you instantly think that HTC is always best at everything? there are some things HTC is first at and brings to the table, there are things that other OEMS bring to the table..if you put your bias aside you'd realize that at the end of it all, most OEMs are around the same...

But let me ask you some fair questions..

have you yourself tried OpenSense SDK and/or Touchwiz SDK?

Also, have you ever owned a top end device by another manufacturer other then HTC?

[Mswezey]

i have an arena in my backyard full of automatic weapons, swords, lightsabers (if you fancy that kinda thing), a machine to inject you with the power to wield the force, ect....

oh and a video camera to stream it live to the web....

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gTen

Wait.so your saying all those people complaining to HTC on their facebook page were just waisting their time?

Of course not. But that facebook protest was not based on any previously released devices. it was based on an apparent policy change that would affect future devices. And HTC proved they obviously DO care and DO listn to the requestes of the community.

Originally Posted by gTen

um..yes..that what an SDK does >.>

Resorting to snarky one liners? Well here's some news for you, NO, that is NOT "what an SDK does." I have multiple SDK's right now, none of them let me hack up Sense, make apps that have a Sense like interface, and provide me with Sense source code.

Originally Posted by gTen

like?

Feel free to read it. It doesn't make any sense for me to copy and paste a web page that I just posted a link to.

Originally Posted by gTen

umm..THEY ALL DO THAT...

Oh really? Then show me where Sansung's CEO said they will NOT be locking bootloaders then. You just love to make crap up. I'll keep calling you on it, and I'm sure you'll keep changing the subject. If they ALL do that, then you should have no problem showing me where they ALL said they won't be locking bootloaders, and then they ALL made websites for the community to hack their stuff up.

Originally Posted by gTen

hmm..Ive looked around the internet and I cant find anywhere where it says HTC will host cooked roms..can you link me to the source?

HTCdev - About Us
"HTCdev is designed to give you the inspiration to explore the possibilities within the HTC platform, the support you need to develop your ideas, the platform you need to promote your applications and the forum to connect with other developers and with HTC."
It's pretty clear what they are doing if you read through the HTCdev site.

Originally Posted by gTen

as for APIs, SDKs and source code everyone has that..and on that note HTC has had a bad history of complying with the GPL and rarely releases source code on time even though they are obligated to! The other manufacturers actually release source code on time (not all manufacturers but most do)

Everyopne also puts screens on their phones. So effing what? What does that have to do with anything? No other manufacturer has came out and flat out said they will NOT be locking bootloaders, and then created a website specifically for the community similar to this website or xda.

Originally Posted by gTen

You are misunderstanding exactly whats going on...HTC is not doing this to harm the community..they are doing this for their own financial reasons..I'm not blaming them..but it isnt exactly a good thing either..its a good thing short term but bad thing long term..simply because it makes code that is HTC only..aka lets say your on Sprint and you need a keyboard phone..and Sprint does not release an HTC keyboard phone for 2 years..you have 2 choices..dont upgrade or choose a different manufacturer..and when you swap..guess what..all those HTC only enchantments become useless...This is why things like Cyogenmod exists..to provide the same experience accross devices.

So wait... Are you implying that even though HTC said they will NOT be locking bootloaders, people won't be able to run AOSP ROMs? LOL, man, you just keep on going. HTC's CEO flat out says, in public and in writing, that they will NOT be locking bootladers. HTC then creates a website designed for the modding community, and promises to assist and provide tools. And you somehow turn that into HTC forcing everyone to use proprietary software. lol, seriously man, to say you have a bizarre take on it would be an understatement.

Originally Posted by gTen

IF HTC did what was bet, it would partner with the other manufacturers to make a universal SDK that works on all UIs..but they wont do that..and neither will the others..simply because they want to lock people into their environment..and thats a correct financial decision for the company..its not exactly the best decision for us as a community who wants things to work on ALL devices...all the other manufacturers are guilty of this either..and I dont blame them..but understand its not exactly a good thing in the long run..

Wait, so you thinnk HTC should partner with other manufacturers and make an SDK that works on all devices? Correct me if I am wrong, but such an SDK already exists, called the Android SDK. And by guaranteeing that their bootloaders would be unlocked, HTC guaranteed that the Android SDk will be fully supported by HTC phones. So you need to slow down with your HTC hate and take a look at the other manufacturers that haven't yet made that same guarantee.

Originally Posted by gTen

FYI...I've been using HTC devices since the HTC Apache...and now I use an HTC and a Samsung device..(I dual wield phones)..I dont "hate" any manufacturer..BUT I hate when people don't even look on the other side and consistently think their manufacturer makes the best device simply because they have it/never tried the other guy. My hope is to have anyone pick any device from any manufacturer and have a community, customizations and etc and not have to worry about the brand and just pick what fits best for their needs..

Ah yes, the obligatory "I have a gay friend" or "I have a black friend" claim. You may very well have an HTC phone. It doesn't change the fact that you are constantly bashing them with baseless and downright ridiculous claims at every chance you get. HTC is setting the standard here for the community, and you are actually trying to turn that into a bad thing. You're an HTC hater. Either that or you don't believe any of the crap you keep posting and just like to argue.

Originally Posted by gTen

um..ok..

Samsung Developers
http://opensource.samsung.com/
developer.lgmobile.com

I can go on...

Um, HTC had had an equivalent to those sites for YEARS. Check out:
HTC - Developer Center
That is not the same thing as:
HTCdev
And none of those links you posted are the same thing as HTCdev either.

Originally Posted by gTen

I think you are misreading what I wrote..

1) Samsung and XDA announced a partnership

2) Samsung by themselves went to find devs and reach out to them via pm

Samsung has been doing general meetings ALL the time..this is the actually putting effort to reach out to the community..

1: HTC has had reps on xda for many years now. Like I said countless times, all the HTC files needed for root or hardspl always "leaked" on xda. There have been countless posts from HTC reps with valuable info over the years. People with info on future devices, people using test devices, etc. Just because there was once a post from someone who worked at Samsung doesn't mean they are ahead of HTC in that regard.
And Samsung by themselves may have went to find developers by sending a PM to a few on xda. HTC took that about 10 steps further by creating them their own website with message boards, encouraging all devs to join, and promising to assist in any way they can- currently taking suggestions on how they can make it perfect. If you think sending a couple PM's to a couple devs on one message board is better than this, there is no reason to continue this discussion. Like I said, HTC speaks to devs all the time on Facebook and twitter, and hosts meets with them all the time. So they didn't even need to do this to still be WAY ahead of your precious Samsung and their couple PM's to a couple people.

Originally Posted by gTen

All the other manufacturers already do this and have been doing this for a long time...why do you instantly think that HTC is always best at everything? there are some things HTC is first at and brings to the table, there are things that other OEMS bring to the table..if you put your bias aside you'd realize that at the end of it all, most OEMs are around the same...

You keep saying all other manufacturers already do it. And I keep asking for you to show me even ONE that does, and then you change the subject or post some link about something else. Show me where a manufacturer has pledged that all phones will have unlocked bootloaders, then created a website for the community and promised to assist in any way.

Originally Posted by gTen

But let me ask you some fair questions..

have you yourself tried OpenSense SDK and/or Touchwiz SDK?

Also, have you ever owned a top end device by another manufacturer other then HTC?

1: No, I have not tried those SDks.
2: Yes, of course I have owned top end phones that weren't HTC. But it has been a while. But I play with other phones constantly. At my job pretty much everyone has a smartphone, and we are constantly comparing them and playing with each others phones. It's a pretty safe bet that I have more hands on experience with more phones than most of the people on this site. That's the fringe benefit to working in a high tech environment with a bunch of geeks in an "open office" (cubicles with low walls) environment. Everyone has a smart phone, and very few people have the same smartphone. And everyone is concstantly trying to play with everyone else's phone to see how it compares.

[gTen]

Originally Posted by BlackDynamite

Of course not. But that facebook protest was not based on any previously released devices. it was based on an apparent policy change that would affect future devices. And HTC proved they obviously DO care and DO listn to the requestes of the community.

the point of the matter is people saw it an issue..obviously when enough complaints are reached they took the liberty to fix this..similar to the incident with LG when people were saying the devices would not get gingerbread due to minimum requirements and LG stepped up committing that their devices will get gingerbread (I think LG was first to commit to upgrading to gingerbread)

Resorting to snarky one liners? Well here's some news for you, NO, that is NOT "what an SDK does." I have multiple SDK's right now, none of them let me hack up Sense, make apps that have a Sense like interface, and provide me with Sense source code.

SDKs let you integrate your software with that of a developer..hence my one line comment of "thats what an sdk does"..what do you think, there are no advantages of using TW sdk over android widgets? its not just there for the fun of it...

Feel free to read it. It doesn't make any sense for me to copy and paste a web page that I just posted a link to.

because there is nothing there to copy and paste?

Oh really? Then show me where Sansung's CEO said they will NOT be locking bootloaders then. You just love to make crap up. I'll keep calling you on it, and I'm sure you'll keep changing the subject. If they ALL do that, then you should have no problem showing me where they ALL said they won't be locking bootloaders, and then they ALL made websites for the community to hack their stuff up.

First of all samsung CEO is different then HTC CEO..Samsung does more things then just cell phones..you mean to say the one in charge of the cellphone division at Samsung..no? Well Samsung never locked boot loaders to begin with...and said they don't plan to..I dont see a reason for them to commit to something they never did..

But if you want look at this, from Sony:

Unlocking the boot loader in the new Xperia

Yup, sony is helping people unlock their bootloaders publicly..I have yet to see HTC annoucne publicly they will help people unlock their old HTC devices..

HTCdev - About Us
"HTCdev is designed to give you the inspiration to explore the possibilities within the HTC platform, the support you need to develop your ideas, the platform you need to promote your applications and the forum to connect with other developers and with HTC."
It's pretty clear what they are doing if you read through the HTCdev site.

I see...here you go:

Samsung hopes to woo more developers, launches forum to prove it | Android Central

Everyopne also puts screens on their phones. So effing what? What does that have to do with anything? No other manufacturer has came out and flat out said they will NOT be locking bootloaders, and then created a website specifically for the community similar to this website or xda.

umm..just a question..do you know what the GPL is? GPL is unrelated to bootloaders...but its very important...its the heart of the open source community as a matter of fact..

So wait... Are you implying that even though HTC said they will NOT be locking bootloaders, people won't be able to run AOSP ROMs? LOL, man, you just keep on going.

What are you talking about..I never said that once...and why are you so stuck up on the boot loader stuff..can we go past that already?

HTC's CEO flat out says, in public and in writing, that they will NOT be locking bootladers. HTC then creates a website designed for the modding community, and promises to assist and provide tools. And you somehow turn that into HTC forcing everyone to use proprietary software. lol, seriously man, to say you have a bizarre take on it would be an understatement.

*sigh* yes HTC is forcing people into propitiatory software..Sense is propitiatory software..this is not new information..them giving API access to that software is a plus..but is not the same as making it open source...Sense is an important part of HTC, so much that HTC said publicly it did not put honeycomb on the Tablet and used Gingerbread due to sense not being ready for Honeycomb..thats how important sense is to HTC..and this is a way for HTC to lock people into their sense ecosystem..I am not saying what they are doing is wrong..its part of doing business and everyone does it..but its in no way helping the community in the long run...

Wait, so you thinnk HTC should partner with other manufacturers and make an SDK that works on all devices? Correct me if I am wrong, but such an SDK already exists, called the Android SDK. And by guaranteeing that their bootloaders would be unlocked, HTC guaranteed that the Android SDk will be fully supported by HTC phones. So you need to slow down with your HTC hate and take a look at the other manufacturers that haven't yet made that same guarantee.

Android SDK provides you an SDK for working with Android..but Google does not officially support 3rd part UIs (wish they would) instead manufacturers are forced to make frameworks that are rooted deep into the system such as Sense and TouchWiz...the point of TW and Sense SDK is to communicate with this framework that Android SDK does not do..

If telling the truth is HTC hate then idk what to say :/

Ah yes, the obligatory "I have a gay friend" or "I have a black friend" claim. You may very well have an HTC phone. It doesn't change the fact that you are constantly bashing them with baseless and downright ridiculous claims at every chance you get. HTC is setting the standard here for the community, and you are actually trying to turn that into a bad thing. You're an HTC hater. Either that or you don't believe any of the crap you keep posting and just like to argue.

I'm just pointing out that I own both hence why I actually follow both..not saying that I catch everything but I do follow both manufacturers as I own both products...

Um, HTC had had an equivalent to those sites for YEARS. Check out:
HTC - Developer Center
That is not the same thing as:
HTCdev
And none of those links you posted are the same thing as HTCdev either.

I am well aware that HTC had that site for years too..that said HTCdev does not bring anything new to the table...

1: HTC has had reps on xda for many years now. Like I said countless times, all the HTC files needed for root or hardspl always "leaked" on xda. There have been countless posts from HTC reps with valuable info over the years. People with info on future devices, people using test devices, etc. Just because there was once a post from someone who worked at Samsung doesn't mean they are ahead of HTC in that regard.

Give me a username on XDA where a person publicly said he is from HTC officially..and by officially means HTC sent them to help work things out..because as far as leaks are concerned thats for everyone..there is a site called samfirmware which leaks Samsung unreleased firmware every day..

And Samsung by themselves may have went to find developers by sending a PM to a few on xda. HTC took that about 10 steps further by creating them their own website with message boards, encouraging all devs to join, and promising to assist in any way they can- currently taking suggestions on how they can make it perfect.

So I can go there and ask them how to port their roms to other phones and they will assist me?

Thats not 10 steps farther..Samsung also has the forum and stuff..but while thats helpful we prefer an environment where we are in control..not the OEMs..in their forums..they are in control of what you can and cant do...

If you think sending a couple PM's to a couple devs on one message board is better than this, there is no reason to continue this discussion. Like I said, HTC speaks to devs all the time on Facebook and twitter, and hosts meets with them all the time. So they didn't even need to do this to still be WAY ahead of your precious Samsung and their couple PM's to a couple people.

Did you miss the official partnership part? a couple of pms help more then you think..and a dev forum Samsung already helped..Samsung offered them to join the dev forum too but developers declined due to the reasons above...same will happen with the HTC dev forums...

You keep saying all other manufacturers already do it. And I keep asking for you to show me even ONE that does, and then you change the subject or post some link about something else. Show me where a manufacturer has pledged that all phones will have unlocked bootloaders, then created a website for the community and promised to assist in any way.

I dont change topic..you just never told me what EXACTLY you wanted me to show...I showed you on the Sony link on unlocking boot loaders and the forum from Samsung..Samsung does not have to commit to unlocking bootloaders because they never locked them in the first place...

1: No, I have not tried those SDks.

So we can both agree that saying OpenSense is better then TW SDK is a stretch as you haven't exactly use either, correct?

2: Yes, of course I have owned top end phones that weren't HTC. But it has been a while. But I play with other phones constantly. At my job pretty much everyone has a smartphone, and we are constantly comparing them and playing with each others phones. It's a pretty safe bet that I have more hands on experience with more phones than most of the people on this site. That's the fringe benefit to working in a high tech environment with a bunch of geeks in an "open office" (cubicles with low walls) environment. Everyone has a smart phone, and very few people have the same smartphone. And everyone is concstantly trying to play with everyone else's phone to see how it compares.

But you recently have not owned a top end phone from another manufacturer..correct? Communicating with others with other devices helps..but again..are the people you communicate who own other manufacturers top end devices as knowledgeable as you are?

I'll tell you one thing..as I said owning an HTC for 5 years has had me biased to HTC for a long time..once HTC did not release a keyboard I had no choice but to switch...I liked the Samsung Epic that I have a lot...but I had issues here and there and I had instances where I thought maybe I should have went HTC...but then after some thinking I thought back and realized that its not like my HTC devices were flawless either...HTC was my first device..and I left HTC not because I hated(yes there were some peeves but I was loyal to HTC so I overlooked them since I liked my device so much) it but because I had no choice..and then I realized that while the grass is not greener on the other side..its just as green here...some parts are worse, some parts are better...its just how things are..

You just will have to experience it for yourself..and it time you will understand what I mean..but until then :/

[orangekid]

As I see it you can just do a word replace for HTC or Samsung on everything you guys are talking about and say the same thing.

Both HTC and Samsung are now support development for THEIR own UI at about the same level, you basically have to pick sides and stick with it. HTC does limit you to use THEIR UI and the SDK is not universal, however neither is TW4.0. HTC and Samsung are the leaders in the Android game and will probably stay that way for a long time. Ask ANYONE what kind of Android device they have and chances are they have one or the other. In my office alone 3 people have Samsung SGS, I have an HTC (HD2), and one guy has an iPhone. LG is catching up and the G2X is a nice device.

I choose Sense because to me it looks much better. You get the animated flip clock, live weather animations, amazing weather app in Sense 3.0, and everything looks more vibrant and pleasing to the eye. There's also the HTC hub which gives free wallpapers, ringtones, themes, skins, widgets etc... which I like.

Of course that's subjective, someone else may prefer TW because the widgets don't take up as much space and the UI overall does not use as much RAM and some Android apps cannot work over Sense (like the wii-remote integration I use for PSX emulated ROMs).

To be perfectly honest, I actually like Launcher Pro over AOSP for speed, efficiency, functionality and eye candy. I can make my own icons and theme it very well with the Theme Chooser cooked into CM7. I have an awesome theme right now with transparent widgets on my CM7 ROM on my HD2 and I've stuck with it.


IMO the general problem with Android is the fragmentation. This is the single biggest problem that WP7 and iOS don't have. iOS 5 is rumored to have widget support, which would put it on par with Android IMO depending on how Apple pulls this off. They still need LWP support (non jailbroken).

The main thing that HTC has over Samsung is that you CAN port TW to an HTC device, but you cannot (so far successfully) port Sense to a Samsung device, but this actually speaks in favor of the TW UI because it can be ported easier, however makes it a plus-point to BUY an HTC Device. The more locked down your device is, the more it is worth IMO because the "open UI and OS" can be ported to your device. As soon as Cotulla publicly releases his hacked SPL for WP7 then WP7 will be the shit because you can port Android to it and have WP7 working flawlessly on a dual-boot.

iPhones are awesome because they can dual-run iOS and Android.

Personally I am considering an Evo3D because of the "3D" and Sense 3.0, that's what it's got over the SGS2 for me. My HD2 is currently the best phone on the market for devs because it can run ANTYHING not called iOS, it is the only device that can stably run WM6.5.x, Android 2.3.x, WP7 (NoDo, with themed UI, which even native WP7 devices cannot do), and Ubuntu, as well as other Linux Distros. This is not a credit to the phone or HTC, but a credit to DFT who are some crazy insane genius ninja hackers. 3rd party developers are the real heroes here, not the manufacturers.

At this stage I do not see any advantage to HTC over Samsung and vice versa, just depends on your preferred flavor. If either company gave a real damn about consumers, they'd make their SDKs globally compatible with other UIs.

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by orangekid

HTC does limit you to use THEIR UI

Actually, HTC does not. With them saying they will allow unlocked bootloaders, you are free to run any AOSP ROM you want- even those without Sense.

So while Samsung may not have locked a bootloader yet, they have also not publicly stated that they never will. HTC, on the other hand, is officially committed to unlocked bootloaders now.

So they are not the same, and HTC doesn't limit you to anything. They provide a UI, but you don't have to use it.