02-26-2008, 05:15 AM
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Re: HTC Video Drivers Coming?
dude, don't provide just a link to a site that people have to register to read - I get enough spam thanks....
That being said - looks prommising, but looks awhile away and will be on some other device. which will be ripped out and disseminated to us through the rom-gurus here.
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Mine is also a crime deterent device,
Go ahead, try to take my wallet... --------------------------------------------------- Have Wifi and GPS on your phone??? Check out Navizon. It's $$$ in your pocket! http://my.navizon.com/Webapps/UserAd..._code=5E5D5D5F Navizon- Get paid $s to use your phones GPS & Wifi! My Navizon Thread: http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=21590 
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02-26-2008, 01:32 PM
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Re: HTC Video Drivers Coming?
Quote:
QUALCOMM Incorporated (NASDAQ:QCOM) has begun sampling the dual-CPU MSM7500 (Convergence Platform single-chip solution, enabling the first generation of converged devices that combine popular consumer electronics with the advanced power of CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Revision A networks. QUALCOMM's MSM7500 chipset will transform the wireless device into the ultimate personal multimedia experience, enabling devices from high-end PDAs and Smartphones to cost-effective wireless computers to portable video players, music centers, gaming consoles and more. With the processing capacity to match the high data-speed capabilities of Rev. A networks, the MSM7500 chipset creates new markets for the world's most popular consumer devices --including an 8.0 megapixel digital camera, camcorder-like video recorder, VGA resolution gaming, support for major audio and video formats, plus a dedicated applications processor to support the BREW solution and third- party operating systems -- with an integrated single-chipset solution. "The MSM7500 chipset brings the industry's best personal media experience to wireless, enabling faster, widespread adoption of the high data-rate services that operators and consumers want," said Dr. Sanjay K. Jha, president of QUALCOMM CDMA Technologies. "By addressing historical performance issues -- power, display, speed, form-factor, network support and multimedia functionality -- the integrated architecture of the MSM7500 chipset provides OEMs with a solution that does not require separate chips or processors to deliver the next evolution in high-end multimedia." The MSM7500 chipset boasts a power-efficient design with a dual-CPU architecture that integrates an ARM11 applications processor and an ARM9 modem processor to deliver the processing power required to run on-demand multimedia content over high-speed Rev. A networks. The MSM7500 chipset will: * Deliver high-end multimedia with the integrated Launchpad suite and BREW support * Support high-resolution VGA displays and TV-out to turn wireless handsets into personal media players and leverage the viewing experience of television monitors * Provide a high-end gaming experience with an embedded ATI 3D graphics engine that further improves the user experience with 3D user interfaces * Expand the Smartphone market with support for Linux and other third-party operating systems * Provide support for wireless peripherals such as WiFi, Bluetooth, QUALCOMM's FLO solution, as well as popular broadcast standards The MSM7500 chipset supports QUALCOMM's Launchpad suite of advanced multimedia, connectivity, position location, user interface and removable storage functionality, and QUALCOMM's BREW solution, which enables the download and monetization of advanced applications and content, allowing operators and OEMs to differentiate their products and services and increase revenues. QUALCOMM's chipsets are also compatible with the Java runtime environment (J2ME) which can be built entirely on the chipset as an extension to the BREW client. QUALCOMM Incorporated develops and delivers digital wireless communications products and services based on the company's CDMA digital technology. Headquartered in San Diego, Calif., QUALCOMM is included in the S&P 500 Index and is a 2005 FORTUNE 500 company traded on The Nasdaq Stock Market under the ticker symbol QCOM. QUALCOMM Incorporated can be found on the World Wide Web at http://www.qualcomm.com/ For more information, call 858/845-7571.
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02-26-2008, 01:40 PM
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Re: HTC Video Drivers Coming?
It really doesn't mean jack squat if a chipset is capable of functionality. What matters is whether the OEM using the chipset licenses and develops a platform that uses the functionality. In this case it's obvious that HTC didn't for their devices, although they've "learned their lesson" and have agreed to do so in the future. Even so, it's good that they're going to release updates that deal with it (even if only partially).
Many may complain that "it's not enough!" and "we paid for it!" but the bottom line is you bought a device to use as a phone and some extras... not some extras that happen to work as a phone.
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--Someday, bringing GoodThings2Life will become a Paradigm!--
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02-26-2008, 03:28 PM
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Re: HTC Video Drivers Coming?
*sigh* I guess I need to spell it out for everyone in detail...
HTC said "To make an informed decision about which handset suits them best, consumers should look at the product specification itself instead of using the underlying chipset specifications to define what the product could potentially become." Ok, this is a valid point. What do consumers have to go on when looking at a product? Press release information, product specs, and advertising. HTC and the various phone carriers listed the product specifications of the devices would use Windows Mobile 5/6 and that they had Qualcomm's MSM7500 chipset. Nothing more about the capabilities... ok, that's not enough info so who do we turn to next? Qualcomm As you see, the PRESIDENT of Qualcomm sold us on the capabilities of the chipset promising the following on Sept 2005: " * Deliver high-end multimedia with the integrated Launchpad suite and BREW support * Support high-resolution VGA displays and TV-out to turn wireless handsets into personal media players and leverage the viewing experience of television monitors * Provide a high-end gaming experience with an embedded ATI 3D graphics engine that further improves the user experience with 3D user interfaces * Expand the Smartphone market with support for Linux and other third-party operating systems * Provide support for wireless peripherals such as WiFi, Bluetooth, QUALCOMM's FLO solution, as well as popular broadcast standards " Ok, so now consumers have no doubt that anything with the MSM7500 will be one bad a-*shutyomouf!*, right? HTC, Qualcomm, and the various phone carriers did state which MSM7500 devices would and would not have GPS, qVGA resolution, TV-Out, bluetooth, wifi, and EVDO... but did not state anything about not enabling the chipset's full media functionality... every piece of consumer-available data stated the opposite. This is why everyone is pissed off and why a class-action lawsuit would go through. Example: Sprint's device spec list for the HTC Touch. On the list of full features, Sprint lists "Easily manage work and play with the versatile Touch. This go-anywhere Windows Mobile 6 device combines a smarter phone with wireless email, built-in web browser and rich media capabilities.", "Enjoy powerful, always-on data flow with expanded capabilities, plus a brilliant, colorful display and broadband-like download speed", and "Download exciting, interactive games that you’ll want to play all the time. With hundreds of options to choose from, it’s easy to find all your favorites." ... on the Microsoft pocketpc specs page for the Sprint HTC TOUCH, it clearly lists that it has a Qualcomm MSM7500 processor but no GPS. There is info about GPS and EVDO rev A both getting enabled by q1 2008 on Sprint's own HTC Touch specification page (wmexperts.com confirmed it). We then fall back to Qualcomm's statement about what the MSM7500 is supposed to do. My point is that there was nothing released by Sprint, Qualcomm, or HTC to let the consumer know that the MSM7500 would not match the personal media experience of the previous generation, the companies released information giving the opposite impression to consumers. There's a similar lawsuit going through right now... the "vista capable" litigation. Microsoft got together with the hardware companies and slapped a "Vista capable" sticker on computers that would run vista as well as Jesse Ventura could use a Fro comb. We bought devices called SMARTPHONES... they specifically offer those "extras" as product features... that's what these devices are SUPPOSED to do. The legal definition of "False Advertising" is "Any advertising or promotion that misrepresents the nature, characteristics, qualities or geographic origin of goods, services or commercial activities" (Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C.A. § 1125(a)). Qualcomm's President said "The MSM7500 chipset brings the industry's best personal media experience to wireless, enabling faster, widespread adoption of the high data-rate services that operators and consumers want" Again, HTC didn't say anything to the contrary. The carriers didn't post any information about product limitations. The nature and characteristics of the products were represented as the best-performing smartphones to date. Seeing that the media experience of the MSM7xxx windows mobile devices is dwarfed by older Windows mobile devices, it DOES NOT constitute the "industry's best personal media experience" that Qualcomm advertised. Older devices provided a BETTER personal media experience. Ipso Facto... false advertising. The bottom line is that we paid for the best personal media experience and we're not getting it. The legality of the issue is pretty clear, HTC and Qualcomm are in the wrong. This seems to be more Qualcomm's fault than HTC's. In a recent interview with an Insider (see wmexperts.com), it was stated that this whole issue came from Qualcomm wanting to charge more for the MSM7xxx advanced video drivers. "HTC is put in an odd position as they are selling devices based on Qualcomm’s marketing and information, not on their own knowledge of how those processors work and are designed since they are not privy to that information. Qualcomm is not being as straightforward with them and in turn, HTC is trying to work around the issue by trying to fix or enhance their software, even though they are unaware that it is not really their fault." Qualcomm advertised the best media experience so it was their job to provide all the tools to enable it at the point of sale/licensing. They legally can not charge HTC extra for advertised features and so it would fall upon Qualcomm to remedy this issue by providing HTC with the tools they need to enable the MSM7500 to act as advertised. HTC must deliver an update to avoid fault. HTC and Qualcomm either need to give consumers the promised media experience, refund them at least half the cost of the device, or offer a free upgrade to a newer device with the promised functionality at a massive discount. I hope that they go through with the class-action, it's an open-and-shut case. I'm not quite clear on the laws governing the resale of products... if, when faced with a crippled product whose manufacturer was the victim of false advertising, the end user will need to sue the manufacturer of the product or manufacturer of the crippled component. I'm guessing it would go something like this: Consumers sue HTC. HTC is forced to sue Qualcomm. Qualcomm is punished for being a Jerkstore and consumers finally get what they paid for. Last edited by Draiko; 02-26-2008 at 03:45 PM.
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02-26-2008, 05:39 PM
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Re: HTC Video Drivers Coming?
What the hell are you talking about going to Qualcomm next and that the HTC specs weren't enough info? Fine. Check with the phone seller to see what the phone is capable of on their network.
From the Sprint web site: At no point does either site claim to be a full-functioned multimedia entertainment system with a 3D graphics engine. I read it a few times to be sure. Is the chipset capable of that? Sure, probably. Did HTC license and develop for it? Obviously not. Now you can disapprove of that, but all the disapproval in the world doesn't mean jack squat.
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02-26-2008, 07:06 PM
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Re: HTC Video Drivers Coming?
Quote:
At no point did any company say that it WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO any of this. The fact that the MSM7500 is inside coupled with the Qualcomm statement/press releases/advertising led everyone and their mother to believe that it WOULD do this stuff. Facts: Qualcomm said it would. It doesn't. HTC and Sprint didn't say anything except that it would play games and give us a rich media experience. It doesn't. HTC scolds everyone for not "shopping smart". Everyone smacks the back of HTC's head and tells them that 3D acceleration was one of the main selling points of the MSM7xxx series chipset! The only missing MSM7500 feature that was brought to the public's attention was the lack of WiFi hardware in the CDMA HTC Touch. We're all cool with that because EVDO rocks and bluetooth picks up the slack. GPS and Rev A are welcome extras. If Qualcomm and/or HTC offered the missing driver as a $25 download, half the mob would disappear. They aren't even doing that! Hell, I called Qualcomm last friday and left them a message asking them if I could buy the missing drivers for a nominal fee! They're sitting on a possible lawsuit that can be resolved and net them a tidy profit if they would just play it right. Personally, I got a Sprint Touch for next to nothing and I don't play games on the thing, I don't really need the extra 3D acceleration... I DO care about the issue because future mobile devices are going to get more and more complex and companies can't keep crippling hardware without letting potential customers know. How would you like it if you went to a McDonalds and paid for a value meal only to have them say "We're going to give you a soda right now and a box of fries in about 6 hours. Just because we have the hardware to make burgers doesn't mean we actually make them, you'll need to call up our corporate offices, convince them to pay an extra $20/hr to the guys working the microwaves in the back, and then MAYBE we'll make you a burger, you'll probably have to wait until we get newer burgers though... oh and you'll have to pay for the whole meal again too". Just in case you can't see the metaphor... Guy buying the value meal = People who bought devices with the MSM7xxx series chipsets. Mcdonalds = wireless carriers (ie: Sprint) Guys working microwave = Qualcomm (they want extra money from HTC for the drivers and think that they're only getting paid enough to stand there) Corporate offices = HTC (they don't want to pay Qualcomm for the drivers and feel that Qualcomm shouldn't charge more for a product's key features) What is stopping Qualcomm and/or HTC from clocking down the MSM7500 to 300 mhz and pulling this same routine? They said it was an MSM7500 400 mhz CPU on the spec sheet. Wouldn't you want your 400 mhz CPU to actually throttle all the way up to 400 mhz when needed or would you just sit back and say "well, they never said it would use all 400 mhz, so I guess it's ok... derp derp"? A spec sheet is a description of what the device can do and how the device will perform. Right now, anyone in California could sue over this and win... Cali has something called the "Computer Lemon Law" that includes "Computer not functioning as promised" as one of the clauses. Most states have something similar in place. Windows Mobile devices qualify as computers and hence they fall under the Computer Lemon Law. http://www.e-californialemonlaw.com/...Lemon_Law.html Last edited by Draiko; 02-26-2008 at 07:39 PM.
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03-14-2008, 01:21 PM
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Re: HTC Video Drivers Coming?
I have a bit of an update...
I was trying to find out the reason for this entire driver issue because it just isn't making sense... well, I think I've finally found it. HTC can't develop the driver because Qualcomm wants money for licensing fees, right? Why is Qualcomm being so greedy? Well, it seems that they're trying to get money to pay for infringing on a few Broadcomm patents. A federal injunction was issued in December of 2007. Lemme summarize the important parts of the injunction here: "...the injunction prohibits Qualcomm from making, using and selling certain chipsets and software that infringe the three Broadcom patents." and " Qualcomm is prohibited, for example, from advertising, marketing or otherwise promoting; entering or fulfilling product orders; setting, determining or approving terms of sale; providing customer service or technical support; negotiating or entering into licensing, representative, reseller or distributor agreements; developing, designing or manufacturing; writing, modifying or updating software; developing or modifying circuits; writing, modifying or updating hardware description code language; or taping out or preparing documentation for, infringing products." What is killing us here is infringed U.S. Patent No. 6,847,686: Video encoding device including a video input processor, for receiving said video signal, a global controller, for controlling the global operation of the video encoding device, a motion estimation processor, a digital signal processor and a bit-stream processor, wherein the global controller stores encodes commands received from a host interface thereby programming the video input processor, the motion estimation processor, the digital signal processor and the bit-stream processor, the video input processor receives and stores the video signal in an external memory unit, the motion estimation processor retrieves the video signal from the memory unit, generates motion analysis of the video signal, stores the motion analysis in the memory unit and provides the motion analysis to the digital signal processor, the digital signal processor processes the video signal according to the motion analysis, thereby producing an encoding commands sequence and encoded data, the bit-stream processor produces an encoded video signal according to the encoding command sequence and the encoded data. So, Qualcomm embedded and ATi Chip into a mobile device CPU. ATi and/or Qualcomm jacked Broadcomm's patented technology to do this. Qualcomm sold this stuff to HTC (possibly with foreknowledge of the patent infringement). Broadcomm sued Qualcomm and won. Qualcomm can't sell/distribute/support any of the infringing hardware after 5/29/2007 unless they pay Broadcomm. Since Qualcomm has to pay out to Broadcomm but doesn't want to lose more money than they have to, they want HTC to pony up. My guess was that HTC planned to use some of the profit from the device sales to pay for the licenses for those drivers. Then they'd "update" the device drivers later on making customers happy and reducing initial costs. While they may have purchased the licenses for GPS/EVDO rev A prior to 5/29/2007, they probably dragged their asses with the video driver license. Now, Qualcomm can't even sell HTC the license without paying out to Broadcomm. HTC doesn't want to pay out, so they're going to wait for Qualcomm to revise the hardware so that it side-steps the Broadcomm patent (MSM7200A)... hence HTC's statement "Future products will support..." blah blah blah, you know the rest. Meanwhile, Qualcomm can still sell the affected chipsets while only losing 6% of the profits (6% being the royalty fee to Broadcomm). So, in essence, we're all suffering because Qualcomm decided to be a pack of thieves, Broadcomm decided to be a bunch of royal-douche-bags, and both Qualcom and HTC are too cheap to pony up to Broadcomm. Unless someone from ATi or Qualcomm releases an open-source driver, someone codes a driver, someone just pays Broadcomm, or someone sues the CRAP out of the lot, we're never going to see a driver for the embedded Imageon in current devices. If a driver is ever created and released by the user community, it would HAVE to be open source (or at least free) in order to avoid any legal action from Broadcomm since Broadcomm, ATi, and Qualcomm all suck butt. The only legal courses of action would be: 1. Sue HTC under the computer lemon law. HTC will in turn sue Qualcomm for selling them stolen technology. Qualcomm will either eat the cost or sue AMD/ATi for partial fault. 2. Bypass HTC and sue Qualcomm directly. The computer lemon law has a sloppy grip when it comes to hardware manufacturers and, unfortunately for HTC, a class action suit against HTC would have a better chance of winning than one against Qualcomm due to the wording of the computer lemon laws. I'm just a Software engineering Grad student here, but I'm pretty sure that this is the case given the information presented. This all really sucks. I really can't decide if I should hate Broadcomm... I understand where they're coming from, but COME ON... don't kill of driver support! Seriously! Just stop Qualcomm from selling hardware or ask for 75% of the net profit from sales of the infringing hardware! Broadcomm is making this entire situation both tough and confusing! I'm really hating them all right now and I kinda feel sorry for HTC.
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03-14-2008, 02:12 PM
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Re: HTC Video Drivers Coming?
Cannot wait for nvidia mobile chipsets
 To hell with all these guys.
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03-14-2008, 06:26 PM
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Re: HTC Video Drivers Coming?
Quote:
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