in responce to the driver problem we have

[OrionSX]

Originally Posted by kellybrf

this has nothing to do with sprint, its an htc issue across all carriers and technologies. you can be outraged at this, but it just goes to show that people have an overwhelming sense of entitlement and will bitch about anything

Kellybrf:
Now listen here. Do you go to Dell and buy a brand new computer for 2000 dollars, with an nVidia Geforce 8800 graphics card, only to find out that the graphics card has no drivers, nor are there any available, making that 400 dollar card useless? I don't think so. Nor do you buy a v8 car and find out it only runs on 4 cylinders, coz they manufacturer forgot to put SPARKPLUGS in the other four! Too broad? Okay, you don't buy JBWeld (or any other Epoxy) and be satisfied with it when it didn't include the ACTIVATOR compound! You'd be pissed and you know it. Call it bitching if you want, but I think its you who should be proclaimed lead bitcher. Pot calls kettle black, eh?

Originally Posted by Polen

I just hope that if they are able to squeze more performance out of the graphics, that they don't cause any other issue, especially power consuption. It's a big balancing act with performance and power consuption on these devices.

-Polen

Polen:
The sad and irritating truth is that if the drivers were there to enable the ATI Imageon hardware (including Direct3dM and DDraw) this would actually REDUCE power consumption, as the main processor wouldn't have to handle nearly as much Software Rendering, both 3D and 2D.

[eehrhard]

Originally Posted by OrionSX

Kellybrf:
Now listen here. Do you go to Dell and buy a brand new computer for 2000 dollars, with an nVidia Geforce 8800 graphics card, only to find out that the graphics card has no drivers, nor are there any available, making that 400 dollar card useless? I don't think so. Nor do you buy a v8 car and find out it only runs on 4 cylinders, coz they manufacturer forgot to put SPARKPLUGS in the other four! Too broad? Okay, you don't buy JBWeld (or any other Epoxy) and be satisfied with it when it didn't include the ACTIVATOR compound! You'd be pissed and you know it. Call it bitching if you want, but I think its you who should be proclaimed lead bitcher. Pot calls kettle black, eh?

While I would like to have more performance out of my phone as much as anyone I think you have your analogys here backwards.

Being as this is not an advertised feature of the phone. (Most of you knew nothing about it until the HTCClassaction Website popped up or if you follow XDA quite closely) It would be more like You buying a 6 cyl car and the automaker giving you 6 cyl by just not utilizing 2 on its 8 cyl motor and sticking it in your car. Maybe your are mad cause you should have gotten 8 as all the hardware is there but you bought a 6 and got a 6. To have your analogy work you would have to have gotten a mogul without a keyboard or a touch that only had half the stated RAM.

These features should be made available but to feel entitled to them is kind of short sided. I am looking a my mogul box right now and see no info about the ati features.

Complain away to sprint, HTC, AT&T hopefully it will work and we will get even better stuff for our phone but at least realize (with the Mogul and Touch) we got the phone as it was advertized.

[Donatom3]

Originally Posted by eehrhard

While I would like to have more performance out of my phone as much as anyone I think you have your analogys here backwards.

Being as this is not an advertised feature of the phone. (Most of you knew nothing about it until the HTCClassaction Website popped up or if you follow XDA quite closely) It would be more like You buying a 6 cyl car and the automaker giving you 6 cyl by just not utilizing 2 on its 8 cyl motor and sticking it in your car. Maybe your are mad cause you should have gotten 8 as all the hardware is there but you bought a 6 and got a 6. To have your analogy work you would have to have gotten a mogul without a keyboard or a touch that only had half the stated RAM.

These features should be made available but to feel entitled to them is kind of short sided. I am looking a my mogul box right now and see no info about the ati features.

Complain away to sprint, HTC, AT&T hopefully it will work and we will get even better stuff for our phone but at least realize (with the Mogul and Touch) we got the phone as it was advertized.

Actually that Analgoy isn't completely correct. In this case they promised you a MSM 7500 which has the capability of the V8 as opposed to the V6. A closer analogy would be... They sold you a Hemi V8 but two of the cylinders weren't being used because they didnt' want to spend the extra time enabling them in the car's ECU. Now when you complain about it they say well the Hemi V8 we sold you still outperforms the V6 you could have bought. Now in this situation you're a bit pissed because when you were buying the car you thought you were getting the same Hemi V8 spec'd the same way that Chrysler makes it.

Now to all you people who say that it isn't advertised or this device isn't capable of what we're claiming it is.
1. All the devices with this chipset have been advertised as being able to deliver a multimedia experience. Even in HTC's own press release back in September they mention the 3D capabilities of this Chipset and specifically name the Mogul, TyTnII in the press release

2. With TCMCP I'm able to play a Video at decent frame rates that WMP (the built in default program) couldn't even handle at 3 fps. Why is that? Because TCMCP lets you choose a different rendering method which obviously takes advantage of more of the phone's Hardware capabilities. Later today CoreCodec the guys who make TCMCP will be releasing a new player that will take advantage of this devices graphics processor and be able to play H.264 video with no problem. They had to link the program to the qtv.dll driver.

[atoy74]

Originally Posted by eehrhard

While I would like to have more performance out of my phone as much as anyone I think you have your analogys here backwards.

Being as this is not an advertised feature of the phone. (Most of you knew nothing about it until the HTCClassaction Website popped up or if you follow XDA quite closely) It would be more like You buying a 6 cyl car and the automaker giving you 6 cyl by just not utilizing 2 on its 8 cyl motor and sticking it in your car. Maybe your are mad cause you should have gotten 8 as all the hardware is there but you bought a 6 and got a 6. To have your analogy work you would have to have gotten a mogul without a keyboard or a touch that only had half the stated RAM.

These features should be made available but to feel entitled to them is kind of short sided. I am looking a my mogul box right now and see no info about the ati features.

Complain away to sprint, HTC, AT&T hopefully it will work and we will get even better stuff for our phone but at least realize (with the Mogul and Touch) we got the phone as it was advertized.

Very good point and technically correct. That's one way to look at it.

I feel there's another side to this.

Consumers would/should expect a company's new product would outclass the previous models. These devices are sold that way (new 400MHz processor!, double the previous model's RAM!, smaller form factor! etc) and by that it's implied that they're faster. As the videos have shown, this is not the case.

I am a technical person but it never occurred to me that I should check that this particular feature was enabled. That's a small and very technical detail that most people are not aware of. If folks were aware, I'm sure it would have influenced many sales. Seems like HTC was running on the expectation that folks would not notice.

Look, it's part of the chipset, why shouldn't it be enabled? Consider an engine manufacturer made their engine with a supercharger and most people knew that to be "part of the system." Shouldn't the car manufacturer that is using that engine be clear that they've disabled the supercharger?

(Car manufacturers are a difficult analogy in this case because of the gravity of the purchase. Yes, most of us do a lot of research when purchasing a $25k+ car compared to a $250 phone...still, the arguments are relative)

By HTC promoting that they're using that chipset they were also implying that those features would be available if not explicitly stated where they weren't (available.)

[dew.man]

Originally Posted by atoy74

Look, it's part of the chipset, why shouldn't it be enabled? Consider an engine manufacturer made their engine with a supercharger and most people knew that to be "part of the system." Shouldn't the car manufacturer that is using that engine be clear that they've disabled the supercharger?

It's all about consolidate and cross-platform development. The chipset is an enabler and cost saver.

QualComm puts out a chipset that ALLOWS the customer-manufacturer to offer different features to their end-users. Just because this chipset may have WiFi capabilities, in no way obligates the phone maker to add the other hardware/software (ie antenna) to enable this functionallity.

This same practice has long been done in every other industry.

And for those of you using the car/engine example, would it be fair to say that when you buy a cheap chevy sedan it should perform on par with a vette just because they may use the same block?

And how do you justify the premium of a Rolex?

[Mikeschevelle]

Originally Posted by dew.man

It's all about consolidate and cross-platform development. The chipset is an enabler and cost saver.

QualComm puts out a chipset that ALLOWS the customer-manufacturer to offer different features to their end-users. Just because this chipset may have WiFi capabilities, in no way obligates the phone maker to add the other hardware/software (ie antenna) to enable this functionallity.

This same practice has long been done in every other industry.

And for those of you using the car/engine example, would it be fair to say that when you buy a cheap chevy sedan it should perform on par with a vette just because they may use the same block?

And how do you justify the premium of a Rolex?

Dont remember the last time that a "cheap chevy sedan had a vette block.

Poor analogy. Would you be pissed if you bought a vette and found it to be slower that a 4 year old vette.

How do i justify a rolex. Easy. its not a piece of shit.

[ajk511]

Originally Posted by Mikeschevelle

Dont remember the last time that a "cheap chevy sedan had a vette block.

Poor analogy. Would you be pissed if you bought a vette and found it to be slower that a 4 year old vette.

How do i justify a rolex. Easy. its not a piece of shit.

cheap chevy sedan with vette block.....caprice, impalla ss
vette slower than a 4 year old vette.....71-79, all slower than 60-69.
82-91....slower than vettes built 25 years earlier.

sorry, had to do that.

but on the same analogy, vette owners complained enough and after the years what were they reworded with? the LS1 when the camaro got the ls1 and vette owners complained what happend???? now we have the LS7

so complaining to htc aint gonna hurt nuthing. worst they can do is say no.

[Mikeschevelle]

Originally Posted by ajk511

cheap chevy sedan with vette block.....caprice, impalla ss
vette slower than a 4 year old vette.....71-79, all slower than 60-69.
82-91....slower than vettes built 25 years earlier.

sorry, had to do that.

but on the same analogy, vette owners complained enough and after the years what were they reworded with? the LS1 when the camaro got the ls1 and vette owners complained what happend???? now we have the LS7

so complaining to htc aint gonna hurt nuthing. worst they can do is say no.

those were not the cheap ones though. you had an upgrade from the 6 cyclinder. I also thank you for upping my vette slowness complaint as that was my point. chevy fixed their problem so lets see what HTC does

[eehrhard]

Originally Posted by atoy74

Very good point and technically correct. That's one way to look at it.

I feel there's another side to this.

Consumers would/should expect a company's new product would outclass the previous models. These devices are sold that way (new 400MHz processor!, double the previous model's RAM!, smaller form factor! etc) and by that it's implied that they're faster. As the videos have shown, this is not the case.

I am a technical person but it never occurred to me that I should check that this particular feature was enabled. That's a small and very technical detail that most people are not aware of. If folks were aware, I'm sure it would have influenced many sales. Seems like HTC was running on the expectation that folks would not notice.

Look, it's part of the chipset, why shouldn't it be enabled? Consider an engine manufacturer made their engine with a supercharger and most people knew that to be "part of the system." Shouldn't the car manufacturer that is using that engine be clear that they've disabled the supercharger?

(Car manufacturers are a difficult analogy in this case because of the gravity of the purchase. Yes, most of us do a lot of research when purchasing a $25k+ car compared to a $250 phone...still, the arguments are relative)

By HTC promoting that they're using that chipset they were also implying that those features would be available if not explicitly stated where they weren't (available.)

I agree completely that it should be enabled. I would probably even pay for the driver if it was because of cost that it was not enabled. I am just stating that when you all went to the sprint store if you are anything like me you knew exactly what you were buying. I knew it didnt have GPS, I knew rev A was not out yet. I played with it for 30 days and knew that the video performance was not great. I also agree that a newer phone should out perform its predecessors but all the carriers let you test drive these phones. If you dont like it get a different phone. Its not real hard.

I dont think HTC selecting a chipset is promising us anything. If you look at the chip diagram there is a spot on there for TV out. Are we bitching an moaning that our phones do not have a svideo out or a rca out? Qualcomm is designing a chip to do as much as possible and appeal to as many companys as possible. HTC has a business model to follow. If it was going to take too long or cost too much to add feature x then fiscally they have to make a decision to add or not add said feature. I am guessing that HTC would not cripple a device on purpose just to piss you guys off. HTC would probably love for all of the phones they offer to have Wifi, 3D hell WiMax but its not always possiblel. I'm not a HTC shill or anything I think they could do alot of good just saying that they are working on it.

I personally love my mogul. I love what it can do and what i cannot do obviously was not a deal breaker for me. I honestly really do not want to game or watch movies on my phone. Maybe a short clip, Youtube or a game of Zuma or Bejeweled but If I want an enjoyable multimedia experience I am 10 out of 10 times either using my PSP or my Ipod Touch.

Generally speaking the more a device tries to do the worse it is at doing all of it. I want my phone to excel a being a PDA and a phone first and formost. If these new drivers reduced my battery life I may have to skip them anyway.

[atoy74]

Originally Posted by eehrhard

I played with it for 30 days and knew that the video performance was not great. I also agree that a newer phone should out perform its predecessors but all the carriers let you test drive these phones. If you dont like it get a different phone. Its not real hard.

I agree. It's different when you find out the poor performance is not due to immature software build or system bug but an actual omission by the manufacturer. In the computer biz we all live off patches and service packs. One thing is waiting for a fix to come the other is finding out that there will never be one and "the next model will fix everything, go get that one"

Originally Posted by eehrhard

I dont think HTC selecting a chipset is promising us anything. If you look at the chip diagram there is a spot on there for TV out. Are we bitching an moaning that our phones do not have a svideo out or a rca out? Qualcomm is designing a chip to do as much as possible and appeal to as many companys as possible. HTC has a business model to follow. If it was going to take too long or cost too much to add feature x then fiscally they have to make a decision to add or not add said feature. I am guessing that HTC would not cripple a device on purpose just to piss you guys off. HTC would probably love for all of the phones they offer to have Wifi, 3D hell WiMax but its not always possiblel. I'm not a HTC shill or anything I think they could do alot of good just saying that they are working on it.

Again, this is not a large marquee type feature that they've disabled (such as wifi, gps, REV.A, etc) but a very technical/detailed chipset ability that most individuals would have not have any idea to look for. That DOES NOT mean that it shouldn't impact a user or a user should not expect the proper performance from their "state-of-the-art" device.

Originally Posted by eehrhard

I personally love my mogul. I love what it can do and what i cannot do obviously was not a deal breaker for me. I honestly really do not want to game or watch movies on my phone. Maybe a short clip, Youtube or a game of Zuma or Bejeweled but If I want an enjoyable multimedia experience I am 10 out of 10 times either using my PSP or my Ipod Touch.

Generally speaking the more a device tries to do the worse it is at doing all of it. I want my phone to excel a being a PDA and a phone first and formost. If these new drivers reduced my battery life I may have to skip them anyway.

I'm glad you feel that way. It shows that this driver issue doesn't really affect you. On the other hand, my Touch has replaced many devices including my Ipod. It has become the media centric device many have been waiting for.