ATI Driver for Touch Pro

[dr g]

Originally Posted by cornelious2

Sorry missing the point again. a camera takes a point in time frame of a video and since it is digital has to process the information into a format in this case primarily jpeg. If it has poor video processing performance it cannot grab all of the information fast enough thusly extending the exposure and bluring all but the steadiest of subjects. that is exactly how I can turn a 20 dollar web cam into something that performs near the level of my 300 dollar digital camera. An image is the same thing as a really short video from the terms of processing.

*note* I tried the driver and having someone time the time it takes from focus to snap it shaved about an eight of a second off the shot in medium light. noticable but not significant enough if it slows down literally any other part of the phone since the camera is still not quite useable.

No, no, no, that's not how it works at all. These image capture devices cannot stream full-resolution images fast enough to be displayed in the viewfinder or saved as video. Few devices intended for still capture can capture at their full still resolution at video framerates. There are distinct preview and capture modes, each of which utilize the sensor differently.

Speeding up or slowing down the preview function has NOTHING to do with the still capture functionality of the camera. You would NEVER want the exposuring of the still camera function to be tied in any way to the processing speed or display speed of the device. You simply cannot get decent photographs like that ... cameras just do not work that way. You would see exposure problems in the images.

You cannot significantly change the camera's effective shutter speed with no other compensation and get proper exposuring.

[bullet2300]

Originally Posted by jmorton10

d3dm_ati.dll

Looks like it was already enabled (or uninstalling the cab didn't undo the change)

~John

This is the exact same thing my phone has, running stock Sprint ROM, phone is from build date 12/9/08.

Guess they started including it or something...

[jmorton10]

Originally Posted by bullet2300

This is the exact same thing my phone has, running stock Sprint ROM, ...

So the Sprint ROM has it, the Verizon ROM has it -I guess the question is, what setup DOESN'T have it??

~John

[bboyneko]

Originally Posted by bullet2300

This is the exact same thing my phone has, running stock Sprint ROM, phone is from build date 12/9/08.

Guess they started including it or something...

Mine was a build date of November and did not have it.

[cornelious2]

Originally Posted by dr g

No, no, no, that's not how it works at all. These image capture devices cannot stream full-resolution images fast enough to be displayed in the viewfinder or saved as video. Few devices intended for still capture can capture at their full still resolution at video framerates. There are distinct preview and capture modes, each of which utilize the sensor differently.

Speeding up or slowing down the preview function has NOTHING to do with the still capture functionality of the camera. You would NEVER want the exposuring of the still camera function to be tied in any way to the processing speed or display speed of the device. You simply cannot get decent photographs like that ... cameras just do not work that way. You would see exposure problems in the images.

You cannot significantly change the camera's effective shutter speed with no other compensation and get proper exposuring.

I am not talking about the preview, I am talking about processing the IMAGE from the sensor into storage. IE drawing the picture into a sortable format quicker means less exposure time needed to the sensor.

n. pl. vid·e·os
The appearance of text and graphics on a video display.

not talking about motion video

[dr g]

Originally Posted by cornelious2

I am not talking about the preview, I am talking about processing the IMAGE from the sensor into storage. IE drawing the picture into a sortable format quicker means less exposure time needed to the sensor.

You need a lesson in basic photography. Exposure time is an independent value based on light conditions and is not, nor should it ever be, reliant on or affected by sensor readout speed.

[cornelious2]

Originally Posted by dr g

You need a lesson in basic photography. Exposure time is an independent value based on light conditions and is not, nor should it ever be, reliant on or affected by sensor readout speed.

Speak for yourself. Exposure time is based on the medium you used and how much time it takes to capture the image under a given light condition. The sensor is the same thing as the lens and that is independent of the media. that's the reason why back in the day people had to sit perfectly still for minutes at a time to take a picture while now you can snap crazy numbers of pictures onto film into film. now that we are digital its not light directly onto film its light compressed into a file. That is the bottle neck in our exposure.

Again the digital capture process is the exposure time for our photo or the time it takes to pull the image off of the sensor. Which is a function of video processing.

here is an article which explains what I am talking about
http://www.articlesbase.com/advertis...lay-73100.html

[dr g]

Originally Posted by cornelious2

Speak for yourself. Exposure time is based on the medium you used and how much time it takes to capture the image under a given light condition. The sensor is the same thing as the lens and that is independent of the media. that's the reason why back in the day people had to sit perfectly still for minutes at a time to take a picture while now you can snap crazy numbers of pictures onto film into film. now that we are digital its not light directly onto film its light compressed into a file. That is the bottle neck in our exposure.

Again the digital capture process is the exposure time for our photo or the time it takes to pull the image off of the sensor. Which is a function of video processing.

here is an article which explains what I am talking about
http://www.articlesbase.com/advertis...lay-73100.html

I am sorry but that article is COMPLETE garbage. The writer is an utter hack, and it's no surprise his "e-zine" is a broken link.

There are so many things wrong with your understanding of the situation it's not funny. And if you're reading babble like the article above, I can see why.

I am going to have trouble even composing a logical, coherent response because your understanding is so off-base.

1. Motion blur in TP photos is caused by slow shutter speed.

2. Shutter speed is an integral component of basic photographic exposuring. Indeed all substrates have effective "ISO ratings" that reflect their light sensitivity, and that property is also an integral part of basic photographic exposuring. The sensor is the medium in digital cameras.

3. Shutter lag -- the delay between pressing the shutter button and the actual photo being taken -- has zero relationship to the shutter speed used for exposuring.

3. Our camera sensors use "electronic shutters", which is really a system of hardware and software controls that allow reading out of data from the image sensor into the processing hardware. The sensor behaves essentially identically to film -- it gathers charge based on its length of exposure to light. This length of exposure must be precisely controlled in order to properly process the data into an image.

4. Sensor readout is usually a quick process, but more importantly, it is irrelevant to taking a single photo. By the time the readout process begins, the exposure time is over and data is shifted out of the light-gathering areas of the sensor to the data pipeline areas.

5. There is no way you can have a digital camera operating without active control of all aspects of exposuring. Shutter speed, which is one such aspect, is controlled by a simple timer; image processing either of the preview image or of the final image is not part of the shutter speed equation whatsoever, nor can it be, because it is variable and would render the camera unreliable.

6. The real way to boost shutter speed in the context of proper exposuring is to either a. open up the aperture or b. increase the sensor effective ISO. Since cell phone cameras usually have fixed apertures, b. is the only option for speeding up shutter speed in low light. This is apparently the deficient part of the TP's camera; it does not aggressively boost effective ISO to freeze motion in low light. This can only be solved by modifying the camera control and processing software; the D3D driver obviously does neither.

7. The article you cite is first of all irrelevant to what we are discussing here, but also is completely wrong. The image processing he speaks of occurs AFTER the photo is exposed, after any shutter lag would have any effect. The only thing faster image processing would speed up would be shot-to-shot time, or, if the camera had a buffer, buffer clearing.

[cornelious2]

I knew you would take the shutter lag portion and ignore the part of the article that talked about what was important. That was just an article I found quickly supporting my argument.

no it talked about about shutter lag AND it talked about the transfer of the image to the buffer which takes some aspect of video processing, the more you talk the more I realize you really don't know how a digital camera works.

simple matter is this. All the sensor does is gather the light. after that the reading of this light has to get PROCESSED and stored into the buffer. The faster this happens, the quicker the shutter can work.

all the sensor does convert the light into an electronic signal so it can be analyzed.

The process of a digital camera is light hits sensor, sensor makes a signal signal is processed and sent to buffer, buffer is cleared (and image is compressed) and stored to slower media.


*edit* after reading more technical specs and re-afirming what I originally was talking about. I go back to calling shenanigans on you.

[dr g]

Originally Posted by cornelious2

I knew you would take the shutter lag portion and ignore the part of the article that talked about what was important. That was just an article I found quickly supporting my argument.

no it talked about about shutter lag AND it talked about the transfer of the image to the buffer which takes some aspect of video processing, the more you talk the more I realize you really don't know how a digital camera works.

simple matter is this. All the sensor does is gather the light. after that the reading of this light has to get PROCESSED and stored into the buffer. The faster this happens, the quicker the shutter can work.

all the sensor does convert the light into an electronic signal so it can be analyzed.

The process of a digital camera is light hits sensor, sensor makes a signal signal is processed and sent to buffer, buffer is cleared (and image is compressed) and stored to slower media.


*edit*
I just realized one point we are both not addressing and I think I understand your viewpoint. the sensors most low end digital cameras (and even more so for phones) cant really handle the mega pixles they are rated for which is why there is processing between sensor and buffer. in a high end camera it is truly just a bus speed issue as to how fast the data from the sensor can trandsfer to the buffer and the shutter can close.

If it were really a case of the hardware being incapable of processing fast enough to avoid blur, thus somehow dragging the shutter speed, the camera would be incapable of fast shutter speeds and freezing motion even in bright light. We know this is not the case. In bright light, the blur problem goes away. So the camera IS capable of high shutter speeds, it just does not compensate in software to boost effective ISO in low light, so as to avoid long shutter speeds and blur.