How is the TP2 faster that the TP?

SweetBearCub · #1 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 02:44 AM

I read an online review of the T-Mo TP2 and in it, they compared it to several other devices, one of them being a Touch Pro (For Sprint/VZW/Alltel, I presume) - It was faster in every benchmark, sometimes by a fair amount.

From my understanding, the T-Mo TP2 has a MSM7200 processor. The Sprint TP has an MSM7201A, and the TP2 will have a MSM7600, all running @ 528 Mhz. From my research, the 7600 is an older design than the 7201A, chosen for its ability to run a GSM radio alongside a CDMA radio, something the 7201A apparently cannot do. An unsubstantiated rumor I read said that the drivers (graphics, etc.) were more fully developed for the 7600, but given Qualcomm & HTC's track record in this area, I highly doubt it.

I'm also wondering how the TP2 can be faster if it uses an older processor (despite the fact that its model # is numerically higher) and it pushes around a bunch of extra pixels, 800x480 vs. the 640x480 of the TP.

Can anyone give me some insight into this mess? Thanks!

Armani G · #2 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 03:48 AM

TP2 is much faster... i know it has an older processor but man this thing is FAST! even with all the custom roms that the tp1 had this beats them all in speed and also being stable! I just can't wait to see how the custom roms run on this baby!

SweetBearCub · #3 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armani G

TP2 is much faster... i know it has an older processor but man this thing is FAST! even with all the custom roms that the tp1 had this beats them all in speed and also being stable! I just can't wait to see how the custom roms run on this baby!

Are there any reviews online where people who have access to a Sprint TP2 (Or if similar enough, a Telus TP2) have compared it to a Sprint TP1, maybe even benchmarked it? The T-Mo review only made offhand references to it.

Exil3d · #4 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetBearCub

I read an online review of the T-Mo TP2 and in it, they compared it to several other devices, one of them being a Touch Pro (For Sprint/VZW/Alltel, I presume) - It was faster in every benchmark, sometimes by a fair amount.

From my understanding, the T-Mo TP2 has a MSM7200 processor. The Sprint TP has an MSM7201A, and the TP2 will have a MSM7600, all running @ 528 Mhz. From my research, the 7600 is an older design than the 7201A, chosen for its ability to run a GSM radio alongside a CDMA radio, something the 7201A apparently cannot do. An unsubstantiated rumor I read said that the drivers (graphics, etc.) were more fully developed for the 7600, but given Qualcomm & HTC's track record in this area, I highly doubt it.

I'm also wondering how the TP2 can be faster if it uses an older processor (despite the fact that its model # is numerically higher) and it pushes around a bunch of extra pixels, 800x480 vs. the 640x480 of the TP.

Can anyone give me some insight into this mess? Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armani G

TP2 is much faster... i know it has an older processor but man this thing is FAST! even with all the custom roms that the tp1 had this beats them all in speed and also being stable! I just can't wait to see how the custom roms run on this baby!

From all my Travels on the intertubes I have come to a conclusion about the CPU the Pro 2 has. First of all, yes its a 7600 that supports gsm. Second of all, it STILL lacks proper 3d accelaration. Its has been proven thru all the youtube videos for the telus and tmobile versions. Just find those vids on youtube and look at the part where some of the vids show tom tom or Igo running. It runs as choppy as our Pro 1. Only reason it feels faster is because the interface TF3d 2 has been optimized. Other than that...... 3d accelaration is nill.

SweetBearCub · #5 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exil3d

From all my Travels on the intertubes I have come to a conclusion about the CPU the Pro 2 has. First of all, yes its a 7600 that supports gsm. Second of all, it STILL lacks proper 3d accelaration. Its has been proven thru all the youtube videos for the telus and tmobile versions. Just find those vids on youtube and look at the part where some of the vids show tom tom or Igo running. It runs as choppy as our Pro 1. Only reason it feels faster is because the interface TF3d 2 has been optimized. Other than that...... 3d accelaration is nill.

That's what I was afraid of. I have no need of TF2D, 3D, 3D2, or any variant. I like the standard WinMo (5.0-6.1) Today screen. When I turn it off/cook it out with a custom ROM - The perceived performance benefits will vanish.

(Even though it *should* be faster because the standard Today screen is much less graphically complex and much less processor intensive than TF3D, plus TF3D sucks up a fair chunk of RAM.)

Damn it HTC! Why do you make such nice phones and then cripple them with a lack of drivers?

I'll still get the TP2 for its bigger screen (hooray death of the useless d-pad, which HTC slowly made less and less usable), much more usable keyboard, and tilt feature. I was going to say that the 3.5mm jack was nice, but I have an HTC remote on the way that plugs into the USB port, has a long cord, and ends in a small remote with a mic, call send & end buttons, track next/prev (also ff/rewind), volume up/down buttons, and as the icing on the cake, it has a plug for any 3.5mm headphones you want to use. Oh yes, and it has a clothes clip. This remote will let me do calls and music (and voice control too) from one unit, so in my mind it's much better than a separate 3.5mm jack that only does audio out.

**Young_breedent** · #6 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exil3d

From all my Travels on the intertubes I have come to a conclusion about the CPU the Pro 2 has. First of all, yes its a 7600 that supports gsm. Second of all, it STILL lacks proper 3d accelaration. Its has been proven thru all the youtube videos for the telus and tmobile versions. Just find those vids on youtube and look at the part where some of the vids show tom tom or Igo running. It runs as choppy as our Pro 1. Only reason it feels faster is because the interface TF3d 2 has been optimized. Other than that...... 3d accelaration is nill.

I disagree completely. Have you actually played with the TP2??? Well i have and the overall experience on the device is better, not just TF3D. I don't know what they did to make the screen more sensitive, and the device run faster but it's definitely an improvement over the original TP. SO for those of you who just use the regular windows mobile home screen you will still see the improvements. Also the battery life is better, the speakers are waaaayyy better, the keyboard is waaayyyy better, the screen is waaayyyy better, and you don't have those heat issues. I was never disappointed with the speed of my touch pro just other things. So for them to make it faster with all the other improvements is definitely worth the upgrade

**shaggylive** · #7 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 03:51 AM

the processor is only one piece of the phone. there are many other areas that performance can be gained, including software/drivers

SweetBearCub · #8 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaggylive

the processor is only one piece of the phone. there are many other areas that performance can be gained, including software/drivers

I agree that drivers and software can be optimized - However, as this community knows, the graphics performance on most HTC phones since at least the Mogul/VX6800 has been atrocious, easily surpassed by previous devices. This pitiful performance has been traced to the fact that devices which use Qualcomm MSM series processors are doing all video rendering in software, with no hardware acceleration whatsoever. From my understanding, Qualcomm charges the manufacturer (HTC) extra to either include the graphics accelerator hardware or the needed drivers, and for whatever reason, HTC is unwilling to pay these fees.

I know that the community had some limited success porting a 3D driver for our phones from another manufacturer (Samsung?), but this does not address the terrible 2D performance (watching scrollbars fill in, waiting 5+ seconds for the screen to rotate after sliding the keyboard in or out, extremely slow program responses such as severe GPS lag while in a moving vehicle, etc..)

I know that custom ROMs can improve this situation somewhat, but they cannot eliminate it, and usually any speedups that they are able to effect come at the cost of either less battery life or less functionality. A phone with proper 2D and 3D graphics drivers would not have to make these tradeoffs, and graphics performance would not be an issue.

Can someone post some kind of evidence from the released versions of the TP2 showing how they have managed to speed the phone up? If it's just software optimization (and not drivers), then the speedup will be all but worthless, as most people will move to load a lot of software on their phones. They are after all being promoted as a mobile office, if not a netbook/laptop replacement. As soon as the default software configuration is changed by more than a minor amount, I bet those optimizations will go out the airlock.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really excited about the TP2, and in fact I have a $150 upgrade credit waiting to spend on it - But I don't want to get it and find that it still has the horrible performance of my TP1. (Which, even running the latest Energy ROM, is crappy, considering how powerful the phone is hardware-wise. Using my TP1 is like watching a V-8 being forced to run on 2 cylinders.)

Zeybrin · #9 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 07:59 AM

okay. . . you list all of this detailed information about the cpu. . . but even the fastest cpu's will run like a pentium 1 without the right RAM. . .

just because it has the same amount of ram as the touch pro 1. . . doesnt mean its the same speed. . . or maybe the system clock ticks faster? making quick changes more possible. . . or even just faster bus speeds. . .

the processor may be older, but 500 mhz is 500 mhz, is 500 mhz (not the exact number but you get the point) maybe the only reason they are using an older processor is because they have more room for a larger one. . .

cpu has very little to do with speed when compared to the quality of the RAM.

buddhatikkigod · #10 (**permalink**) 08-24-2009, 08:14 AM

500mhz on different cpus can be entirely different. Compare a 500mhz P2/p3/ or celeron to a 500mhz Core Duo/Solo