New SERO Oct 1st

[blackangst]

Originally Posted by nerys

but if I can not convince a relatively high intelligence group of people on a forum such as this what freaking chance do I have?

NOT ONE PERSON has answered the gasoline issue. not one. this tells me its an ego thing. the only responses I get to that are "its not analogous" or "no it needs to be like this"

So I ask you. Both sprint and shell provide a Product. One is cellular service one is gasoline.

WHY is it ok for sprint to charge more for otherwise identical hardware using exactly the same service but NOT ok for shell to charge more for otherwise identical cars just some are nicer but SAME gasoline.

the analogy is perfect. but all the responses I get belittle demean or claim I am in a "rage fest" whatever the heck that means.

Because your analogy is flawed. First, the hardware is NOT in any way otherwise identical. Lets compare the Epic to the TP2. There are more differences than similarities! Second, using your logic (or lack thereof) it would be like saying its illegal for gas companies to charge more for otherwise similar higher octane fuel. But its not.

[beserker15]

The reason why the gas analogy doesn't work is because you are comparing a service to a product. Your comcast analogy works a lot better. You're right, it's kinda the same as charging someone more for internet because they have a kickass i7 computer versus a pentium 2. It's the reason why comcast enforced a fairly strict 250gb bandwidth cap now, so it doesn't matter which device you use, just don't go over 250gb. I'm quite sure though, our SERO account does not have the same cap, as shown by the people who brag about tethering and using up like 10gb+ without consequences. SERO came out during the time when bandwidth was plenty and there were not enough devices to make use of it, hence everyone was throwing around the term "unlimted".

Sprint would make more people happy, as well as behave "more ethically", if they were to enforce a 5gb limit for all SERO customers while opening up all of their devices (besides 4G ones of course). However, their priority isn't to make people happy. It's to make people happy enough to not leave while also making money. If this is truly unlawful, you have the right to challenge it...but I'm quite sure Sprint has enough lawyers working for them to make sure what they are doing IS LEGAL. That's why they notify plan changes in your bills and you reserve the right the cancel your 2 years commitment with them.

You don't need to "educate" anyone. People pay for the service with their hard earned money. Once it becomes too costly and too "unfair" people will automatically leave. Sprint can't afford to bleed customers again, so that's why they need to keep prices low. There are plenty of excellent, and cheap, prepaid providers ready and willing to take SERO customers if Sprint gets out of hand.

[nerys]

A better poll.

Do you think any cellular provider should be allowed to force you to pay more per month to use a device that uses the exact same service your using now JUST because its a new cool device that the provider had NO hand in making that you buy outright full price yourself.?

YES or NO

that would be a far less biased and more revealing poll.

alas it would be impossible on this forum as you guys would flood it with YES responses.

[nerys]

Originally Posted by blackangst

Because your analogy is flawed. First, the hardware is NOT in any way otherwise identical. Lets compare the Epic to the TP2. There are more differences than similarities! Second, using your logic (or lack thereof) it would be like saying its illegal for gas companies to charge more for otherwise similar higher octane fuel. But its not.

NO your not allowed to use the epic because IT IS different it uses a NEW service 4g

limit your comparison to otherwise IDENTICAL (as far as SERVICE IS CONCERNED) devices.

For example 8330 to 8530 virtually IDENTICAL handsets only the "trackball/touchpad" is different.

try that one.

[nerys]

"The reason why the gas analogy doesn't work is because you are comparing a service to a product."

except the ACTION by each company (ie what we are comparing here) IS exactly the same. They want to charge MORE to use their gas simply in a different car.

the gas is not better. its not MORE gas. the ONLY difference is your car is nicer.

Sprint wants to charge more to use their data simply in a different phone

the data is not better. its not More data. the ONLY difference is your phone is nicer.

See how that works? I replace CAR with PHONE and GAS with DATA and both statements make perfect sense.

that is the very founding point of an analogy.

"You don't need to "educate" anyone. People pay for the service with their hard earned money. Once it becomes too costly and too "unfair" people will automatically leave. Sprint can't afford to bleed customers again, so that's why they need to keep prices low. There are plenty of excellent, and cheap, prepaid providers ready and willing to take SERO customers if Sprint gets out of hand. "

that IS the inevitable end result the problem is STOPPING it before it gets to that point and people suffer (not suffer like pain you know what I mean)

the idea is to nip it NOW before it gets too far before a solid precedent is set.

[nerys]

Originally Posted by blackangst

Because your analogy is flawed. First, the hardware is NOT in any way otherwise identical. Lets compare the Epic to the TP2. There are more differences than similarities! Second, using your logic (or lack thereof) it would be like saying its illegal for gas companies to charge more for otherwise similar higher octane fuel. But its not.

No you keep changing the comparison.

Your trying to compare the gas to the phone. that is an invalid comparison.

the comparison is GAS TO DATA

Charging more "just to use" a newer phone is the SAME AS charging more "JUST TO USE" the newer car.

Neither sprint nor the gas company had any financial input into the purchase of the phone or the car.

They both simply PROVIDE what the Phone/Car USES.

Now if you come up with a Diesel Powered car you can not complain that it costs a different amount (you can but thats another subject all together so lets not go their)

Your car uses a DIFFERENT FUEL.

just like the EPIC uses a DIFFERENT service* (4g)

A good example is the BB 8330 and the BB 8530

Virtually IDENTICAL phones. yet one you can use and the other you can not JUST because its newer. Must pay more for its newness. The higher price of buying the hardware is not enough sprint wants to charge you MORE for the EXACT same service your getting now on nearly identical hardware.

Justify that.

[beserker15]

Originally Posted by nerys

"The reason why the gas analogy doesn't work is because you are comparing a service to a product."

except the ACTION by each company (ie what we are comparing here) IS exactly the same. They want to charge MORE to use their gas simply in a different car.

the gas is not better. its not MORE gas. the ONLY difference is your car is nicer.

Sprint wants to charge more to use their data simply in a different phone

the data is not better. its not More data. the ONLY difference is your phone is nicer.

See how that works? I replace CAR with PHONE and GAS with DATA and both statements make perfect sense.

that is the very founding point of an analogy.

"You don't need to "educate" anyone. People pay for the service with their hard earned money. Once it becomes too costly and too "unfair" people will automatically leave. Sprint can't afford to bleed customers again, so that's why they need to keep prices low. There are plenty of excellent, and cheap, prepaid providers ready and willing to take SERO customers if Sprint gets out of hand. "

that IS the inevitable end result the problem is STOPPING it before it gets to that point and people suffer (not suffer like pain you know what I mean)

the idea is to nip it NOW before it gets too far before a solid precedent is set.

That's why I pointed out the bandwidth cap that Comcast has. Without a cap, SERO Premium users on average WILL use more data. Android has a superior marketplace, almost nullifying the need to download software on a desktop and transfer them over (I do this often with my TP2). Android also goes online frequently to check for software updates (I often won't know if there are updates for my TP2 software until I search for it myself). Android will also have a far superior flash player soon that makes streaming content far more efficient, thus increasing the data load. Not to mention they will also have updated software, which are generally larger in size. Fring, Skype, etc are essentially not being updated anymore on Windows Mobile, so Android versions will be superior and use more data. HD games for instance, Android is slowly catching up to Iphones and already surpasses Windows Mobile. Most Windows Mobile games are small, within 10mb or so. Android games can hit up to 200mb already. Obviously you can say you don't play games or use any of that...but I probably will with an iconic phone. So will many other SERO Premium users. You might not use more data with SERO Premium, but on average...other people will. We are looking at the average aren't we?

If that is the inevitable end result that Sprint chooses to follow, then I'll inevitably switch to Pageplus or whatever is good at the time. I'm not in love with Sprint by any means and won't feel any remorse to ditching them for someone better. It's not even a big hassle either. A 10-20 minute phone call maybe, and I'll have a new provider.

[blackangst]

Originally Posted by nerys

A good example is the BB 8330 and the BB 8530

Virtually IDENTICAL phones. yet one you can use and the other you can not JUST because its newer. Must pay more for its newness. The higher price of buying the hardware is not enough sprint wants to charge you MORE for the EXACT same service your getting now on nearly identical hardware.

Justify that.

Well, sort of. One has flash one doesnt, one has 96MB memory one has 256MB, one has wifi one doesnt, one has 3G capability one doesnt, one has dedicated media keys one doesnt...but hey...yah almost

[fishpony]

Originally Posted by blackangst

Well, sort of. One has flash one doesnt, one has 96MB memory one has 256MB, one has wifi one doesnt, one has 3G capability one doesnt, one has dedicated media keys one doesnt...but hey...yah almost

You obviously don't understand his whole stance on this if you can't understand what he's sayin here.


So you're saying that because my new phone has more ram, media keys, and a flash that my old phone didnt then my bill should be higher?

[blackangst]

Originally Posted by fishpony

You obviously don't understand his whole stance on this if you can't understand what he's sayin here.


So you're saying that because my new phone has more ram, media keys, and a flash that my old phone didnt then my bill should be higher?

No, I understand perfectly what he's trying to say. Is it annoying that any carrier makes plan restrictions for phones? Yeah, it is. Is it annoying that Sprint is charging a premium for a new device? A little, yes.

My problem with him is his allegations that he cannot cite evidence for...that it is illegal. And his stance that corporations (read: Sprint) are somehow required to follow the public's opinion of what's right and wrong. He's deluded, naive, and overall comes off as a hack. The statements he had made in this thread really makes him come off as a buffoon. He argues his stance from emotion, not logic nor law.