New SERO Oct 1st

[Dr.8820]

Originally Posted by blackangst

Yeah Im out of this one too. Anyone that gets wtfowned as many times as he has in this thread really cant be reasoned with. Reminds me of the quote attributed to Mark Twain ""Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference".

Have fun with your rage fest nerys

lol, wait 'til mr. prime reads what he said lol!!

[nerys]

Just because you declare it does not make it so blankangst

I choose option 4 - attempt to educate people and attempt to compel sprint to NOT do this.

Succeed or not its better than simply giving in thats for sure.

[beserker15]

Originally Posted by nerys

ahh what forum are you reading? more unique names in this thread agree with me than you thats for sure (at least last time I counted I would have to check again to be sure)

Hmm I better check its possible those post agreeing me are multiples from a small number of individuals.

either way its an ego thing. How can you agree with the insane gas price idea but not agree with the insane sprint price idea?

It's fairly split between those who likes the SERO Premium idea and those who oppose it....but among those who oppose, I believe you are one of the few that actually thinks it's unlawful. I agree, for many things, if we want it, we must fight for it. However, arguing pointless in a forum that will never get back to Sprint makes no sense. It's obvious no one can change your opinions on this...but you cannot change anyone else's opinions either. You aren't educating anyone in this forum, your comments just results in more arguments.

You say you don't know why people side with Sprint? Well they've given you many reasons. If you don't agree with it, that's fine. There were reasons to oppose Sprint as well. We fight for what we want in this country. I feel what I have now is reasonable and there is no point for me to fight. I also feel in the future that my hardware won't "downgrade" because TP2's are plentiful on craigslist and "dumbphones" are continuing to improve in resolution, screen size, speed, and ability. These are MY reasons. I don't know the future, but neither do you. If you feel otherwise, send out those letters to Sprint, BBB, etc. If all you do is "educate" people on these forums, you are basically giving in because you aren't actually doing anything that would change Sprint's decision. If you succeed in your attempts, you'll be a hero to every SERO customer out there. So go for it

[nerys]

but if I can not convince a relatively high intelligence group of people on a forum such as this what freaking chance do I have?

NOT ONE PERSON has answered the gasoline issue. not one. this tells me its an ego thing. the only responses I get to that are "its not analogous" or "no it needs to be like this"

So I ask you. Both sprint and shell provide a Product. One is cellular service one is gasoline.

WHY is it ok for sprint to charge more for otherwise identical hardware using exactly the same service but NOT ok for shell to charge more for otherwise identical cars just some are nicer but SAME gasoline.

the analogy is perfect. but all the responses I get belittle demean or claim I am in a "rage fest" whatever the heck that means.

the only logical reasons I can think are are 1 of 2 options (let me know if you can think of any more)

either the users truly do not comprehend how the analogy is perfect OR they comprehend fully but their ego's won't let them admit otherwise.

I am not buying hardware from sprint. Spring "approved" x set of hardware I select from that hardware and use it to "access" my service.

Here I have another analogy for you.

Comcast. Provides a service not unlike SPRINT. a telecom service that requires more maintenance as you use more.

Would it be ok with you if COMCAST was able to charge you MORE if you used a dual core windows 7 or Apple OSX machine than users who are using the same machines but with OS9 or Windows XP?

OR what if Comcast decided to charge you MORE if you had a larger than 17" screen because you know you can put more content on the larger screen and use more data.

FORGET SERO.

lets say you have the original $39.99 450minute unlimited power vision data account.

WHY does sprint have any say in what "otherwise" sprint approved hardware you use to access the service.

YOU DO NOT GET MORE or DIFFERENT service. same service. that is what your paying for.

WHY is it ok with you for sprint to dictate the price of your SERVICE based on your otherwise identical (uses same service) hardware?

Why is it NOT ok for gas company to charge more to nicer cars?

Why is it NOT ok for comcast to charge more if you have a faster computer or larger screen?

because your not buying a car from the gas station your not buying a computer or monitor from comcast. ITS NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS what car or computer you use.

JUST LIKE it should not be any of sprints business what phone you use that is otherwise sprint and tech compatible with your account?

Would you fight if a gas station tried to charge more for gas for nicer cars or comcast (or whoever your ISP is) tried to charge more for your larger screen or faster computer?

OF COURSE you would the very idea is preposterous.

so why not with sprint?

Again I am not asking for anything special from sprint. Just that the HONOR the original terms of our agreement within reason and one of those things is I was able to use any power vision phone.

So why not now?

the reason is simple. they know people DESIRE these phones so they are using it to "bait" you into paying more.

the WHY is why is it lawful or moral for them to do this?

If I can not convince a small educated group what chance do I have of convincing the masses?

When the right and wrong are SO obvious it makes me wonder what kind of people could object? do not take offense but my first thought is this is a bunch of tweens with parents paying the bill and they want their nice new phone $10 a month that they don't have to pay be damned.

but I DO have to pay it and pay it to get NO NEW SERVICE OF ANY RELEVANCE.

its literally a "because we can" fee and those are not supposed to be allowed.

[muyoso]

Dude, nobody cares anymore. If you care so much which you obviously do, go sue sprint and demand they give you a free phone and free 4g service. Everyone else will either stick with their current plan or upgrade peaceably.

Judging from your statements on here, you are obviously pretty fringe on the political spectrum of people, I would guess to the left, but you could be one of those rabid no compromise libertarians. Just realize that you are not the voice of reason, as no one who is so far fringe can ever be the voice of reason.

[Dr.8820]

we're arguing with exil3d 3.0 lol!

[nerys]

I follow no political affiliation. I follow two philosophies.

OBEY the constitution. Period.

Freedom means you can do anything you want so long as it does not infringe on the freedom of anyone else.

Most political parties (I have yet to find any exceptions) are total BS.

[quick99si]

ahh what forum are you reading? more unique names in this thread agree with me than you thats for sure (at least last time I counted I would have to check again to be sure)

I think you're very confused. Roughly half of us support the basic initial concept behind your nonsensical rants, yet very few people agree with what or how you present your arguments. Your analogies are awkwardly plagued with convenient logical disconnects and your line of reasoning is riddled with bias and otherwise subjective rhetoric.

You're making SERO customers looks like a whiney, cheap, and most of all self-righteous group of individuals. You do not speak for us and please stop implying that you're the majority leader on this one. If you truly feel that way however, then I'm afraid that you are as delusional as you are misguided when it comes to contract litigation (and common sense in some ragard).

Do us all a favor an take it to PM.

[blackangst]

Originally Posted by nerys

well when did the terms say I COULD NOT use any phone mr. sprint since 2000. I say there was no such rule UNTIL the instinct.

My contention is that sprint should NOT be permitted to make such rules. This is not sprints sand box contrary to what people thing. We have laws and we decide what those rules are.

It IS Sprint's sandbox if you choose to accept Sprint's T&C's. Which you did when you activated service. "We" as you so aptly put it do not decide on a whim what a corporations T&C's are. If they are found to be illegal, they are adjusted and punished. The issue with the Instict was settled in the courts years ago. Whine and b1tch all you want, the law is not on your side.

Originally Posted by nerys

IE sprints rules need to reasonable. My contention is that this is NOT reasonable.

No, they dont. EVERY carrier has device restrictions, and never has it been found to be illegal. COMPANIES, not the general public, make the rules. If you dont like them, tough. Go somewhere else. Is it also "illegal" for carriers to require a data plan for some devices? No.

Originally Posted by nerys

normally market forces will enforce reasonable limits on a company. but market forces DO NOT APPLY normally in this context because they are using OUR AIRWAVES and we have unwillingly (thanks FCC) granted them an effective oligarchy via selling bandwidth and the intrinsic limits of that bandwidth (frequency bands)

thats all.

Wrong. "Market forces" do not enforce ANYTHING in regards to T&C's. They could influence, but the never enforce. Please cite an example if you disagree.

By the way, I know you know this, and it has been pointed out to you before, but you need to re-read it:

Our Policies
Services are subject to our business policies, practices and procedures ("Policies"). You agree to adhere to all of our Policies when you use our Services. Our Policies are subject to change at anytime with or without notice.

When You Accept The Agreement
You must have the legal capacity to accept the Agreement. You accept the Agreement when you do any of the following: (a) accept the Agreement through any printed, oral or electronic statement; (b) attempt to or in any way use the Services; (c) pay for the Services; or (d) open any package or start any program that says you are accepting the Agreement when doing so. If you don't want to accept the Agreement, don't do any of these things.

Our Right To Change The Agreement & Your Related Rights
We may change any part of the Agreement at any time, including, but not limited to, rates, charges, how we calculate charges, or your terms of Service.

There you go. You agreed to Sprint's T&C by not only using their services, but paying for it as well, and you have failed to quote where Sprint violated their terms by putting device restrictions on certain plans.

You mention ethics quite a bit in this thread. Perhaps you need to brush up on the law. Ethics and law dont necessarily go hand in hand. Why? Because ethics are subjective. So far you have made dozens of accusations while not citing any law to back up your position. In fact, many including myself have cited law, including SCOTUS cases, in defense of Sprint. Yet you still rage on.

/sigh

This will probably be my last post in regards to this, unless of course you cite law or T&C that support your position.

Have a nice day, sir. Or ma'am. Whatever you are.

[muyoso]

Originally Posted by quick99si

I think you're very confused. Roughly half of us support the basic initial concept behind your nonsensical rants, yet very few people agree with what or how you present your arguments. Your analogies are awkwardly plagued with convenient logical disconnects and your line of reasoning is riddled with bias and otherwise subjective rhetoric.

You're making SERO customers looks like a whiney, cheap, and most of all self-righteous group of individuals. You do not speak for us and please stop implying that you're the majority leader on this one. If you truly feel that way however, then I'm afraid that you are as delusional as you are misguided when it comes to contract litigation (and common sense in some ragard).

Do us all a favor an take it to PM.

This thread need a poll like YESTERDAY. Poll options:

I like that Sprint is offering Sero Premium, but I wont join
I don't like that Sprint is offering Sero Premium, and I won't join
I like that Sprint is offering Sero Premium and I will join


Then we can see where people stand.