Anyone used the GPS in Europe yet?

[bedoig]

Originally Posted by shaggylive

do you people really think that flight mode disables aGPS!! I believe your mistaken... I think all it effectively does is block smartmode... in this country if your phone has power, it has aGPS.

What makes you say that? Do you have some support for this? You could be right, but I'd like to see some evidence before believing something that illogical.

Isn't flight mode intended to disable all radios on the device in order to avoid any potential interference with other electronic doodads? That would be my assumption. Along the same lines, I think it is possible that Flight Mode could disable the GPS chip even though it is a passive signal. Perhaps there is a bug that allows it to keep running after turning on flight mode, but not after a soft reset while still in flight mode.

Unless a lot more people start coming forward with similar experiences/evidence, I'm going to have to test on my own later this year in order to make up my mind.

[nmhusa]

Originally Posted by bedoig

What makes you say that? Do you have some support for this? You could be right, but I'd like to see some evidence before believing something that illogical.

Isn't flight mode intended to disable all radios on the device in order to avoid any potential interference with other electronic doodads? That would be my assumption. Along the same lines, I think it is possible that Flight Mode could disable the GPS chip even though it is a passive signal. Perhaps there is a bug that allows it to keep running after turning on flight mode, but not after a soft reset while still in flight mode.

Unless a lot more people start coming forward with similar experiences/evidence, I'm going to have to test on my own later this year in order to make up my mind.

The GPS chip has nothing to do with the radio. I can switch to flight mode and turn on GPS with Holux gps, run iGuidance and get a fix in seconds. The GPS receiver is a passive reciever and does not require the radio to be on. aGPS would require the radio to be on, but the Mogul is capable of regular GPS (like a TOM TOM, Garmin standalone unit) as well as aGPS.

As a test I just performed the above while typing this post.

My assumption is that the Comm Manager software interface that turns on Airplane mode predates the GPS activation software and either HTC/Sprint were to lazy to rewrite it, were not required to (as GPS is a passive reciver and not a transmitter), or just plain did not think about it (the most probable reason). If the FAA gives a hoot I am sure we will see changes in a later firmware release.

[bedoig]

Originally Posted by nmhusa

The GPS chip has nothing to do with the radio. I can switch to flight mode and turn on GPS with Holux gps, run iGuidance and get a fix in seconds. The GPS receiver is a passive reciever and does not require the radio to be on. aGPS would require the radio to be on, but the Mogul is capable of regular GPS (like a TOM TOM, Garmin standalone unit) as well as aGPS.

As a test I just performed the above while typing this post.

My assumption is that the Comm Manager software interface that turns on Airplane mode predates the GPS activation software and either HTC/Sprint were to lazy to rewrite it, were not required to (as GPS is a passive reciver and not a transmitter), or just plain did not think about it (the most probable reason). If the FAA gives a hoot I am sure we will see changes in a later firmware release.

I realize GPS is a passive signal. That's why I said this in the post you quoted:

Originally Posted by bedoig

I think it is possible that Flight Mode could disable the GPS chip even though it is a passive signal.

Part of the debate centered around wether the GPS chip could still obtain a lock after a soft reset while still in flight mode. I recently tested this as well, and didn't have any problems getting a fix on my position. It seemed to take slightly longer, but that is understandable. So I think it is still safe to say that the chip is capable of getting a lock without assistance from the cell towers (ie true standalone mode). Wether this holds true when traveling to a vastly different location remains to be seen. Several people have reported having trouble when trying to get a lock after traveling to different countries. Perhaps a program like WiFiFofum could help in getting a lock by establishing a rough estimate of your location based on surrounding wifi networks. I think we still need more data to really put this issue to bed.

[shaggylive]

no I havn't forgot about my bold claim, but I read alot over the winter, but kinda gave up, cuz I don't even have a passport. when i get some time I will find my ref's and post links.
in the meantime, anybody have access to a RF detector? (a real one not a hotspot one)
http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/sh-055dv.html
also
http://www.cellbusters.com/product_i...products_id=28

[jpeepers]

Originally Posted by shaggylive

no I havn't forgot about my bold claim, but I read alot over the winter, but kinda gave up, cuz I don't even have a passport. when i get some time I will find my ref's and post links.
in the meantime, anybody have access to a RF detector? (a real one not a hotspot one)
http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/sh-055dv.html
also
http://www.cellbusters.com/product_i...products_id=28

I have access to all kinds of RF test equipment and analyzers.

What were you trying to do, see if the phone is still transmitting while in Flight mode?
Give me an example of what you wanted to do and I'll test it out.

[bedoig]

Originally Posted by shaggylive

no I havn't forgot about my bold claim, but I read alot over the winter, but kinda gave up, cuz I don't even have a passport. when i get some time I will find my ref's and post links.
in the meantime, anybody have access to a RF detector? (a real one not a hotspot one)
http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/sh-055dv.html
also
http://www.cellbusters.com/product_i...products_id=28

Unless you have some real proof, I'm going to stick with the assumption that the GPSOne chip is capable of full standalone mode. Per one of Qualcomm's releases on the GPSOne chip:

Originally Posted by Qualcomm

...integrated gpsOne® solution to improve Standalone-GPS performance

Originally Posted by Qualcomm

...as well as Standalone-GPS, which expands the availability of positioning capabilities to areas where cellular networks are not accessible.

The aGPS functions of the GPSOne chip are there purely as an enhancement to the standalone GPS. Using aGPS the phone can get a lock indoors and in other locations where location based services wouldn't normally be available.

Originally Posted by Qualcomm

The Company's new gpsOneXTRA Assistance technology provides enhanced operation for Standalone-GPS by enabling a user to download a small assistance data file through a brief Internet access session. gpsOneXTRA Assistance technology provides benefits such as a faster time-to-fix and operation, indoors and in challenging environments for up to seven days..

Originally Posted by Qualcomm

...supported as part of the gpsOne solution on select Mobile Station Modem™ (MSM™) chipsets for both CDMA2000® and WCDMA (UMTS) networks.

I suppose it is possible that flight mode does not disable aGPS, but I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't. Either way, the chip should still function without assistance from the cell networks.

[shaggylive]

Originally Posted by jpeepers

I have access to all kinds of RF test equipment and analyzers.

What were you trying to do, see if the phone is still transmitting while in Flight mode?
Give me an example of what you wanted to do and I'll test it out.

yes. the ideal test would be inline with an external antenna, to make sure ANY activity over the cell radio is detected.

"why blindly believe, when we can walk to the moon and see the flag..."

[shaggylive]

the frequencies being used would be helpful too... I think gps is around 1500mhz

[DogPack6]

Well I've given up with the GPS in Germany...never once received a lock. As a backup, I used a BT GPS. With the NO2CHeM 6.1 ROM 5060, I was unable to set the GPS hardware port in the native redirector to anything but (none), so I was forced to use GPSGate, which worked like a charm. I've been quite busy with work, but I wish I had more time to test the GPS lock issue with the stock ROM.

For the internal GPS issue, the GPS is returning sat data, it just won't lock.

The behaviour of the external GPS and internal GPS using the native redirector for internal and GPS gate for external is different.

With the internal GPS, sats are read and data is recieved, but after a while it appears the GPS resets and starts reacquiring GPS data, while the external GPS seems to build on the signal of sats it is currently communicating with. In addition, the phone itself will periodically soft reset while acquiring data through the internal GPS.

I used the GPSviewier trying cold reset to completely reset the internal GPS and there seemed to be no improvement.

[DogPack6]

Another observation:

Posted throughout these forums, it is recommend setting EnableGPSSmartMode to 0 for standalone mode and 1 for aGPS. Enabling this setting tells the GPS to start acquiring a fix based on the last known location. In aGPS mode, the GPS is getting assistance in acquiring a fix via methods other than the last known location, so I assume this registry setting is essentially not applicable or at least insignificant when using aGPS. I'll test when back in the states to see if the speed to lock is any different when this value is changed.

The value in this registry setting would be useful in standalone mode (assuming the GPS truly functions in standalone mode). In standalone mode, setting a value of 1 should cause the GPS to start searching based on the last known location. This should significantly improve the time to lock, assuming your current location has not changed significantly since the last lock. The only time it might be beneficial to set to 0, is when running in stand alone mode and starting in a location significantly different from the previously known location. Even in this scenario, there may not be much, if any, noticeable difference as the entire sky still must be searched. Having an incorrect starting location may not be any worse than starting with no known location (I'll leave GPS gurus to this one until I have a chance to research the GPS algorithm used for finding sats in the sky).