Li-ion Type Battery's For Dummies And The Otherwise Misinformed

[TurboFool]

Fantastic and vital information. Too many myths surround these batteries, and having the truth laid out on the table is very helpful.

And I think the spelling error the smartass friend was referring to was "battery's" instead of "batteries." I know I can be anal about such things, as well, and that did distract me a bit at first. You might want to adjust that for obvious reasons. Otherwise, though, your thread is quite good.

[Baffles]

I don't know about the topping off, I find that my battery drains fast if I constantly top it off. I usually don't recharge my Mogul until it's down to around 20 or 30% battery, and it will go 2-3 days on a charge, depending on how much I use it. Lately I only get 1.5 or so days with heavy slingplayer usage.

[Intermountain Trust]

Originally Posted by TurboFool

Fantastic and vital information. Too many myths surround these batteries, and having the truth laid out on the table is very helpful.

And I think the spelling error the smartass friend was referring to was "battery's" instead of "batteries." I know I can be anal about such things, as well, and that did distract me a bit at first. You might want to adjust that for obvious reasons. Otherwise, though, your thread is quite good.

that is an interesting point on spelling so i looked it up as i have been spelling it two different ways, it seem both spellings are correct.


Now can someone tell me how to delete the other post that i made responding to rawr's friend so we do not have so much garbage to look through. As entertaining as it was i do not think we need to have it as a distraction.

figured it out post deleted

[gguruusa]

Originally Posted by Intermountain Trust

that is an interesting point on spelling so i looked it up as i have been spelling it two different ways, it seem both spellings are correct.

battery's and batteries...

batteries is the plural form of battery (as in "I have many batteries")

battery's is the possesive form of battery (as in "This battery's positive terminal is corroded")

[Intermountain Trust]

Originally Posted by gguruusa

battery's and batteries...

batteries is plural of battery (as in "I have many batteries")

battery's is the possesive form of battery (as in "This battery's positive terminal is corroded")

Thank you for taking the time to post the explanation.

[gguruusa]

I've seen a lot of people get hung up on the 1000 in "Up to 1000 charge/discharge cycles can be expected if used within the expected service life of about two to three years". Please bear in mind that "1000" is not a hard and fast number - it's an approximation of expected drain/charge patterns in an "average" environment. Your mileage will vary.

[canospinach]

Since you did not take the time to edit your original post, instead you chose to copy it directly over, it seems only appropriate to clarify your quote of my other post from another thread so that it is not misconstrued.

Originally Posted by Intermountain Trust

i see you are giving battery advice, I have not had time to respond to your lack of research until now.

Thanks Intermountain Trust, not sure why you believe i have a lack of information or research, but lets shed some light here on your info.

BTW - very good info, thank you for contributing.

Current battery technology has only so many "Cycles" of charge. As i posted which you misunderstood, not "Cycles" as per a memory effect, which is what your evidence is referring to, but each time you charge i am using the term cycle. I can understand why you read the posted info and took with it a different meaning

Originally Posted by Intermountain Trust

There is no memory and no scheduled cycling is required to prolong the battery’s life

For example:

Originally Posted by Intermountain Trust

The internal resistance of the Li-ion batteries cannot be improved with cycling.

these are both clearly a statement in regards to "Memory Effect". "Cycling" as i put it is something completely different and has zero to do with charging capacity. Instead we are talking about overall charging lifespan here.

Originally Posted by Intermountain Trust

Repeated insertion into the charger or cradle does not affect the battery by inducing overcharge

Li-Ions cannot be overcharged due to the protection internally as stated. However repeated insertion into a charger will decline the overall lifespan of the battery due again to its finite amount of charges it will take. These are 2 totally different statements in regards to "Cycling".

Originally Posted by Intermountain Trust

does not require periodic full discharge

True to keep its overall output. As i have stated in referance to a "Memory Effect". Again this in no way referances the overall amount of times the battery can be charged.

Originally Posted by Intermountain Trust

The Li-ion is most economical for those who use a mobile phone daily. Up to 1000 charge/discharge cycles can be expected if used within the expected service life of about two to three years

Thank you, this summerizes my point exactly as for charging "Cycles". As you can clearly see here the author states the exact point we are discussing.

Originally Posted by gguruusa

I've seen a lot of people get hung up on the 1000 in "Up to 1000 charge/discharge cycles can be expected if used within the expected service life of about two to three years". Please bear in mind that "1000" is not a hard and fast number - it's an approximation of expected drain/charge patterns in an "average" environment. Your mileage will vary.

Excellent point. Real world conditions can be very different from lab situations (statement of 1000 is based in lab conditions).

Originally Posted by Intermountain Trust

So far, little is known about the life expectancy of the Li-ion polymer. Because of the similarities with the Li-ion, the long-term performance of both systems is expected to be similar.

Li-ion and Li-ion Polymer can be really different in their behaviour even though they are both in the Li-ion family.

Again, great info. Thank you for helping me explain and validate my statement about "Charging cycles".

[GoodThings2Life]

At first, I was excited to see that someone else was taking time to educate people on lithium-ion best practices.

Unfortunately, this thread could be a whole lot better if it weren't done as a rant.

[Intermountain Trust]

Goodthings,

First of all please join and post your findings regarding batteries here. Second thanks for taking me to that post i followed one of your links which I will add to the links page. I had not remembered that particular site as it has been about 3 years sense i have seen it.

The site is another sponsored by Mr. Buchmann that has other information that i did not otherwise come across recently. one of those things that i think is important because of the whole E-Bay thing and people looking for cheap batteries i have copied and posted below.

Here is the link to Battery University a site sponsored by Mr. Buchmann's company Cadex Electronics Inc.
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/index.htm

enjoy IT

"Counterfeit cell phone batteries (clone batteries)

In the search for low-cost battery replacements, consumers may inadvertently purchase clone cell phone batteries that do not include an approved protection circuit. Lithium-ion packs require a protection circuit to shut off the power source if the charger malfunctions and keep on charging, or if the pack is put under undue stress (electrical short). Overheating and 'venting with flame' can be the result of such strain. (See photos of an exploded cell phone with clone battery on charge.)

Photos of a cell phone with a clone battery
that exploded while left on charge in a car


Cell phone manufacturers strongly advise customers to replace the battery with an approved brand. Failing to do so may void the warranty. Counterfeit cell phone batteries have become visible since the beginning of 2003 when the world was being flooded with cheap replacement batteries from Asia.

Cell phone manufacturers act out of genuine concern for safety rather than using scare tactics to persuade customers to buy their own accessories. They do not object to third party suppliers in offering batteries and chargers as long as the products are well built, safe and functioning. The buyer can often not distinguish between an original and a counterfeit battery because the label may appear bona fide.

Caution should also be exercised in purchasing counterfeit chargers. Some units do not terminate the battery correctly and rely on the battery's internal protection circuit to cut off the power when fully charged. Precise full-charge termination and a working protection circuit are needed for the safe use of the lithium-ion battery."

[paynej]

Ok, can you explain to me the difference between Li-Ion and Li-Poly batteries?


I've seen both available for our phones and have heard that they are not to be considered completely equal (capacities aside).

But I don't understand the differences that would make one preferable to the other.

Thanks!