HTC Mogul Sprint ROM - GPS and REV. A New info!

[canospinach]

Originally Posted by neilson

Would it be within the rules to express frustration at others by saying whatever we want via PM, since that's strictly between 2 ppl and not affecting others on here? I agree with the rules, I just want clarification if that only extends to what's said publicly or if it encroaches on PM'd conversations?

Thats a very good question.

You want to approach a Mod to ask that for specific clarification.

However if you look at the rules they appear to be for the forum as a whole.

Here is the unspoken rule of thumb: (in my words)

Be Civil, Be Decent, Be Intelligent.

Again i dont know of any situation where it is appropriate to be anything less than professional, public or private message included. I would not say something to someone privately which i would not say publicly.

[AcidFire52]

Lets bring this back on topic please.

[iwillfearnoevil]

which basically is lacking new info, why is this even stickied until we actually get gps and reva?

[canospinach]

Originally Posted by aughsum

It was a good thread.. just used blah cause i couldnt remember the name of it and im not in an EVDO area so it wouldve taken forever to go back and copy the title.

Its good to see that someone took things a step further though... I just want a kaiser or something that does everything a 6-700$ phone should do. In a perfect world the update will unlock the full gpsONE or integrate an api layer so, if it is, in fact, locked into sprint nav we will be able to route coordinates elsewhere, and then when wm 6.1 hits im hoping it reduces memory overhead.. which wont happen but I can dream.

GPS is really my biggest gripe.. followed but the unresponciveness of the OS.. ive avoided my bt headset because of the horror stories on here and, despite the fact that a 600$ phone should be able to multitask, I usually only run one program at a time to curb the ram issue.. I just want gps without an external adapter.

http://www.cdmatech.com/products/gpsone.jsp

If you have not seen this already, here is the Qualcomm page on their GPSOne chip in the mogul.

I know it doesnt answer your question about if we will be locked into Tel-Nav, thought it might be interesting reading.

[Raging Idiot]

Ah, the good ol' semantics/perceptions arguments. Like a breath of fresh air.

actually, more like a breath of volcanic ash...

Gee, I don't have much control/power in my real-world life so guess I'll get on the internet and wield all the power I can muster via condesending verbage and over-use of "report-post" button against all those children that are requiring discipline.
Yeah, that'll show'em.

Actually, disagreements, or rather "war", can be a great motivator towards growth and innovation. We don't need Internet Mommies. We need freedom.
Sure, in the real-world complete independence and total equality can not peacefully coexist, because one would always trample on the other.

But this is the internet and we are as equal as our intellect allows and as free as the moderators abstain from power of control.

The abuse of power is the root of all evil. Of course sometimes the abuse of power occurs when one has the power to stop something bad and yet chooses not to stop it.
However, in the case of fact-finding (disputing) it is more motivating when the emotions are so highly engaged. Like the muscle fibers that must be torn down in order to regrow stronger so to can the mind and mental strength.
Most of the great minds through history had great adversaries to contribute.
Stifling all conflict stifles innovation.

100% Satisfaction should come with a bit of humility,
Raging Idiot

[pflatlyne]

Originally Posted by canospinach

Your right, that does not sound like normal operation.

As you know if you continuously have this issue time after time you may need to address other issues in how you handle your handset (charging habits, aftermarket chargers etc.). It would have been a great assist in your other post if you had posted more detail about your issue as the general info stated is not an out of the ordinary experience. In your other post in another thread you mention it overheats when on the phone and plugged in. In reality the phone is not designed to be used while charging as its a tremendous strain on the battery as well as charging mechanism. This may be part of your issue.

EDIT - USB charging or connectivity to a PC is far lower power input than a DC or AC adaptor which is why you can use the handset while USB connected but should not when charging on AC or DC. Some premium quality DC adapters may shut off charging during a call to prevent these issues during say in car use.

You and several other people reporting a problem in no way creates an "Implied warranty". Regardless is anyone questioning that this might be covered under warranty? Have you so far not had your handsets replaced? If you do not already have it, I might recommend the protection plan just to make sure you have the best experience at the service center.

Keep in mind when charging or using the phone you will experience heat buildup, sometimes it will feel hot to the touch and that is absolutely normal.

Unfortunately they rate CDMA batteries far too high for real life network usage. I generally charge twice per day. Most consumers have an overly high expectation of battery performance to begin with.

If you want a real heat issue, back in 1992 Blaupunkt made a 1.2watt handheld that felt like you had a hot iron next to your head, not to mention in supporting that kind of power output the battery had no longevity and took almost 12 solid hours to charge

I have never known anyone NOT to use their phones while on the charger. Certainly,no where in the manual or on any of sprints websites did it suggest that the internet could be used for only an hour at a time (maybe two,but in any event,the battery goes dead,and the phone becomes useless until it is recharged) I have been through four phones right now,and all have had the problems. Ive even had it happen sometimes on usb,just not as common,especially if the keyboard is open and the back is off. (the latter of which is certainly not the way the phone was intended to be used) I agree,my usage uncovers the issue,but I think I am well within what is considered normal,even if it is not common. (for the record,I use the usb cable or the wall charger that came in the box.)

I admit,spring has replaced the phone,but if I buy a washing machine,and it does not wash my clothes,replacing it with another washing machine that wont wash my clothes really does not help. I also have the protection plan. This is of course a different issue. It certainly makes things easier,but I should not need it to get a working phone. Still this is a different subject,having nothing to do with my phone,but with sprints service in general. Some states require a retailer to honor the warranty while in others they can make you send it back to the manufacturer. It might be good customer service but certainly sprint is free to do as they wish in this regard. Still,I don't like how much effort sprint goes to in regards to figuring out how to make it as inconvenient as possible to NOT pay them an extra 8 dollars a month.
I do agree,sprint WILL replace my phone with another model if I complain enough. I have considered this option,and I may yet go this route,but the only similar phone does not have wifi. Its like if I had purchased a BMW and it had a problem where you had to wait for the engine to cool down completely before you could add gas (ok,not the best analogy) Of course replacing it with another if they all had the problem would not be an option. So maybe they tell me they will give me a different car altogether,but all that is available is a Ford. Certainly if Im desperate for a car that will do the job of driving,I might have no choice. (id have to be pretty desperate =) ) Still,I want turbocharger,heated leather seats and mirror defrosters.
Offering an inferior replacement,or one with the same problems is not a solution. They owe me a phone that can connect me to the internet,and has wifi and bluetooth. One where everything works. And certainly one that can connect for more than an hour or two at a time. After all,would anyone really buy a phone if it said in big letters on the front of the box "This phone is not intended to connect to the internet or make calls over two hours at a time." Almost everyone expects to put the phone on the charger and keep talking. Certainly no one expects that they cant talk on their phone on a long drive,with the phone on the charger.

[canospinach]

Originally Posted by pflatlyne

I have never known anyone NOT to use their phones while on the charger. Certainly,no where in the manual or on any of sprints websites did it suggest that the internet could be used for only an hour at a time (maybe two,but in any event,the battery goes dead,and the phone becomes useless until it is recharged) I have been through four phones right now,and all have had the problems. Ive even had it happen sometimes on usb,just not as common,especially if the keyboard is open and the back is off. (the latter of which is certainly not the way the phone was intended to be used) I agree,my usage uncovers the issue,but I think I am well within what is considered normal,even if it is not common.

I admit,spring has replaced the phone,but if I buy a washing machine,and it does not wash my clothes,replacing it with another washing machine that wont wash my clothes really does not help. I do agree,sprint WILL replace my phone with another model if I complain enough. I have considered this option,and I may yet go this route,but the only similar phone does not have wifi. Its like if I had purchased a BMW and it had a problem where you had to wait for the engine to cool down completely before you could add gas (ok,not the best analogy) Of course replacing it with another if they all had the problem would not be an option. So maybe they tell me they will give me a different car altogether,but all that is available is a Ford. Certainly if Im desperate for a car that will do the job of driving,I might have no choice. (id have to be pretty desperate =) ) Still,I want turbocharger,heated leather seats and mirror defrosters.
Offering an inferior replacement,or one with the same problems is not a solution. They owe me a phone that can connect me to the internet,and has wifi and bluetooth. One where everything works. And certainly one that can connect for more than an hour or two at a time. After all,would anyone really buy a phone if it said in big letters on the front of the box "This phone is not intended to connect to the internet or make calls over two hours at a time." Almost everyone expects to put the phone on the charger and keep talking. Certainly no one expects that they cant talk on their phone on a long drive,with the phone on the charger.

I can tell your really frustrated with your phone and are disappointed with its performance

I realize its not common knowledge which is why i wanted to share it here with you. Just because the majority of people speed does not mean it is right or correct. Just because people charge while talking does not imply it is the proper or right thing to do. In most cases they dont tell you that for best performance you need to drain your battery dead and then fully recharge, but its a fact of the design either way.

Everytime you plug your handset into a power source you are taking a "Cycle" of charge away from your battery (the chemicals inside only do their thing so many times before they stop). People who run all day on and off the charge will kill their battery within a fairly short period (as they are using multiple cycles each day without draining the battery). Li-ion cells dont develop a "memory" for charge, but have the least amount of times they can be cycled. NiCd batteries had the most cycles of charge but had a horrible memory effect. There is no perfect battery yet.

As you mentioned if you are seeing excessive heat buildup usage patterns must be addressed. especially if you see the same reoccuring issue time and time again. At that point we can begin to rule out hardware factors and are instead directed towards environmental issues.

I hate to say it again, but a washing machine being a mainly mechanical object is going to have an entirely different set of performance circumstances than something which is an electronics based unit. Lets compare them to full fledged computers instead of cars. In this comparison you will see more users with similiar reoccuring issues similiar to the consistency seen here with the 6800 (heat shutoff issues, OS issues, hardware, 3rd party app issues etc).

I certainly agree you should have a functioning handset that you are happy with.

[Intermountain Trust]

originally posted by canospinach
"I realize its not common knowledge which is why i wanted to share it here with you. Just because the majority of people speed does not mean it is right or correct. Just because people charge while talking does not imply it is the proper or right thing to do. In most cases they dont tell you that for best performance you need to drain your battery dead and then fully recharge, but its a fact of the design either way.

Everytime you plug your handset into a power source you are taking a "Cycle" of charge away from your battery (the chemicals inside only do their thing so many times before they stop). People who run all day on and off the charge will kill their battery within a fairly short period (as they are using multiple cycles each day without draining the battery). Li-ion cells dont develop a "memory" for charge, but have the least amount of times they can be cycled. NiCd batteries had the most cycles of charge but had a horrible memory effect. There is no perfect battery yet.

As you mentioned if you are seeing excessive heat buildup usage patterns must be addressed. especially if you see the same reoccuring issue time and time again. At that point we can begin to rule out hardware factors and are instead directed towards environmental issues."




pflatlyne,
you stated that you have had 4 phones to date. My question is have you received a new battery with these phones, or have they done the typical take you battery out of the old phone and put it into the new one? if this is the case you may have a battery with defective overload circuits.
additionally i have been online using my mogul in phone as modem for up to 6 hours at a time without my battery heating up or quitting.
slowly charging the whole time which may be better for the battery as it keeps it from overheating while charging due to the lower charge rate.

canospinach,
i see you are giving battery advice, I have not had time to respond to your lack of research until now.
allow me to assist you,

i have personally kept my previous Li-ion powered phone plugged in constantly including while driving, the only exception to this is while i was walking around. My original battery lasted for a period of 1 year 11 months before i started to have noticeable effects from aging.

I however new the above statement would just not be good enough for you from threads i have been reading throughout this site. specifically where you constantly badgered an individual after their post challenging you on any level. this entry is a bit long for your benefit. i have made some highlights for the readers benefit i hope you enjoy.

The excerpts found below are from a book authored by Mr. Isidor Buchmann who is the president, founder and CEO of Cadex Electronics Inc. from his website at
http://http://www.buchmann.ca/faq.asp

"The Li-ion is a low maintenance battery, an advantage that no other chemistry can claim. There is no memory and no scheduled cycling is required to prolong the battery’s life. In addition to high energy density and lightweight, the self-discharge is less than half compared to the NiCd and NiMH, making the Li-ion well suited for modern fuel gauge applications.
On the negative, the Li-ion is fragile and requires a protection circuit to maintain safe operation. The load current is moderate and charging must be done according to strict standards. In addition, the Li-ion is subject to aging, whether used or not.

The loss of charge acceptance of the Li-ion/polymer batteries is due to cell oxidation, which occurs naturally during use and as part of aging.
Li-ion batteries cannot be restored with cycling or any other external means. The capacity loss is permanent because the metals used in the cells are designated to run for a specific time only and are being consumed during their service life.

Li-ion offers internal resistance characteristics that are between those of NiMH and NiCd. Usage does not contribute much to the increase in resistance, but aging does. The typical life span of a Li-ion battery is two to three years, whether it is used or not. Cool storage and keeping the battery in a partially charged state when not in use retard the aging process.
The internal resistance of the Li-ion batteries cannot be improved with cycling. The cell oxidation, which causes high resistance, is non-reversible. The ultimate cause of failure is high internal resistance. Energy may still be present in the battery, but it can no longer be delivered due to poor conductivity.

Is the Li-ion a better choice? Yes, for many applications. The Li-ion is a low maintenance battery which offers high energy, is lightweight and does not require periodic full discharge. No trickle charge is applied once the battery reaches full charge. The Li-ion battery can stay in most chargers until used. The charging process of a Li-ion is, in many ways, simpler and cleaner than that of nickel-based systems, but requires tighter tolerances. Repeated insertion into the charger or cradle does not affect the battery by inducing overcharge.

On the negative side, the Li-ion gradually loses charge acceptance as part of aging, even if not used. For this reason, Li-ion batteries should not be stored for long periods of time but be rotated like perishable food. The buyer should be aware of the manufacturing date when purchasing a replacement battery.

The Li-ion is most economical for those who use a mobile phone daily. Up to 1000 charge/discharge cycles can be expected if used within the expected service life of about two to three years. Because of the aging effect, the Li-ion does not provide an economical solution for the occasional user. If the Li-ion is the only battery choice and the equipment is seldom used, the battery should be removed from the equipment and stored in a cool place, preferably only partially charged.

So far, little is known about the life expectancy of the Li-ion polymer. Because of the similarities with the Li-ion, the long-term performance of both systems is expected to be similar. Much effort is being made to prolong the service life of lithium-based systems. New chemical additives have been effective in retarding the aging process.

Is the Li-ion a better choice? Yes, for many applications. The Li-ion is a low maintenance battery which offers high energy, is lightweight and does not require periodic full discharge. No trickle charge is applied once the battery reaches full charge. The Li-ion battery can stay in most chargers until used. The charging process of a Li-ion is, in many ways, simpler and cleaner than that of nickel-based systems, but requires tighter tolerances. Repeated insertion into the charger or cradle does not affect the battery by inducing overcharge.
On the negative side, the Li-ion gradually loses charge acceptance as part of aging, even if not used. For this reason, Li-ion batteries should not be stored for long periods of time but be rotated like perishable food. The buyer should be aware of the manufacturing date when purchasing a replacement battery.

For best results, keep the battery cool. In addition, store the battery at a 40 percent charge level. Never fully charge or discharge the battery before storage. The 40 percent charge assures a stable condition even if self-discharge robs some of the battery’s energy. Most battery manufacturers store Li-ion batteries at 15°C (59°F) and at 40 percent charge."

Simple Guidelines

• Charge the Li-ion often, except before a long storage. Avoid repeated deep discharges.
• Keep the Li-ion battery cool. Prevent storage in a hot car. Never freeze a battery.
• Avoid purchasing spare Li-ion batteries for later use. Observe manufacturing date when purchasing. Do not buy old stock, even if sold at clearance prices.

IT

[neodorian]

@Intermountain:

You beat me to it. Li-ion batteries should be topped off whenever you can. They told me that the last time I bought a phone and it has held true. If anything, draining a Li-ion battery all the way and then charging it is counterproductive. On my Treo if I topped it off every night, the battery would last forever. If it was drained for some reason, I would plug it in and it would say it was fully charged within a short time but then it would drain very quicly until I charged it a few more times.

[Raging Idiot]

Originally Posted by Intermountain Trust

Up to 1000 charge/discharge cycles can be expected if used within the expected service life of about two to three years.

Maybe I missed it somewhere in the post, but I'm wondering what he meant by charge/discharge cycle. If the life of the battery isn't contingent on the amount of these cycles, then why would there be a number here at all. I probably have my battery half discharged and then recharged about twice a day. I wonder if that's considered 2 cycles or just 1 "full" cycle.
Not really a big deal either way, last year these batteries were being sold on ebay for $10 and might have even went down since then.

This is really good info to know, as it's practically universal to all the cell phones on this site. So perhaps this can be copied over somewhere and made a stickie for everyone else to benefit and to lessen the battery rumors that abound.