HTC Mogul Sprint ROM - GPS and REV. A New info!

[Gilliland]

Originally Posted by bigmikemn

Oh Please - Can you little girls whine any more?

Don't get me wrong, I would like my phone to work correctly, but just reading the first page of this thread made me nauseous.

It's comical. The mogul is the most useful phone I've ever owned. I've got the 2.16 ROM installed, and by and large, it's working fine. Bluetooth works well, no problems at all. In more than a week with the new ROM, it has never "turned itself off". And I've gone in and out of roaming without any lockups, so that doesn't appear to be an issue either.

I have had to reboot the phone occasionally, but no more often than I did on the old ROM. And I have a couple of apps that no longer work, but nothing that I can't live without for the time being.

My Holux GPS works perfectly with the Mogul to get me where I need to be, and it does so without any of the limitations or extra charges of aGPS. So even if Sprint eventually activates that, I won't use it.

Sure, I look forward to the day when Sprint/HTC has a ROM version that makes everything work. In the meantime, I salute the folks who are building custom ROMs - perhaps I'll try one eventually. But all these whiners, jeez, get a life already.

Bottom line: I've got this great phone that also provides data service to my laptop, GPS service for me when I'm driving, feeds stereo music to my bluetooth headset, acts as an Internet browser when I don't have a computer handy, and provides a bunch of other useful functions that are too numerous to mention. I have no real complaints.

[dishe]

Originally Posted by Gilliland

It's comical. The mogul is the most useful phone I've ever owned. I've got the 2.16 ROM installed, and by and large, it's working fine. Bluetooth works well, no problems at all. In more than a week with the new ROM, it has never "turned itself off". And I've gone in and out of roaming without any lockups, so that doesn't appear to be an issue either.

See, that's just obnoxious and arrogant.

Look, a lot of people here are having problems. Maybe you don't, and that's cool, I'm really happy for you... but you can't possibly tell us to chill just because YOURS is ok!! I tried the 2.16 ROM for a day and it locked up no less than 7 times. I missed many business phone calls, and an urgent text from a family member. If we were in your situation we wouldn't complain, but clearly we're not. So have some respect and maybe a little sympathy for those of us who dropped a lot of money on something that doesn't work as it should.

And don't give me this "be happy with what we have" garbage... I've owned 5 PDA-phones over the last few years, and all of them were more stable than the Mogul. Sprint always seems to have these problems (6700 had issues as well)- when I was on GSM, all my HTC phones just worked that way they should... they didn't freeze, bluetooth sounded great, everything just worked!
So, no, this shouldn't just be "accepted for what it is"... there is some kind of incompetence at work with Sprint, and if we don't complain they'll just get lazier and think they can get away with it.

Now, that being said, I've been building my own custom ROMs with the help of some of the other folks here so my device is almost perfect, which is why I haven't complained much until now. But I shouldn't be REQUIRED to do that for a working device.

I do agree that voicing our opinions in this forum is useless, which is why I generally don't do it. In fact, I'm pretty happy with the Mogul, so I actually wasn't going to complain at all until I saw your post.
I mean, that's just the wrong attitude, dude. Friggin weak.

Those of us who DO have problems, however, should be contacting sprint and saying this is unacceptable to charge so much for a phone that doesn't work correctly yet (when other devices have proven that Windows Mobile is perfectly capable of operating correctly!). Call and raise hell. My phone works because of things I did to it, but I'm still supporting the cause.

[livejazz]

Originally Posted by dishe

See, that's just obnoxious.

Look, a lot of people here are having problems. Maybe you don't, and that's cool, I'm really happy for you... but you can't possibly tell us to chill just because YOURS is ok!! If we were in your situation we wouldn't complain, but clearly we're not. So have some respect and maybe a little sympathy for those of us who dropped a lot of money on something that doesn't work as it should.

And don't give me this "be happy with what we have" garbage... I've owned 5 PDA-phones over the last few years, and all of them were more stable than the Mogul. Sprint always seems to have these problems- when I was on GSM, all my HTC phones just worked that way they should... they didn't freeze, bluetooth sounded great, everything just worked!
So, no, this shouldn't just be "accepted for what it is"... there is some kind of incompetnace at work with Sprint, and if we don't complain they'll just get lazier.

Now, I do agree that voicing our opinions in this forum is useless, which is why I generally don't do it. In fact, I'm still happy with the Mogul despite these problems, so I actually wasn't going to complain at all until I saw your post.
I mean, that's just the wrong attitude, dude.

Those of us who DO have problems, however, should be contacting sprint and saying this is unacceptable to charge so much for a phone that doesn't work correctly yet (when other devices have proven that Windows Mobile is perfectly capable of operating correctly!).

Actually, dishe, you are close to very accurate. Truth is, though, that there are a few of us on here that have direct connections with Sprint technical and some cordial and objective dissimination of usage reviews and criticism is very helpful when we speak with these brainiacs at Sprint. Beleive it or not, they actually ask what we have seen on the forums. This is why there are a couple of forums that I have been a member of for a long time without posts that are proportional to my length of membership. I do a lot of reading and relaying information. These nice techs are pulling their hair out, right now, over this ROM. Quotes go something like this:

"That is why we wait to put these things on our web site so that only the insiders get them and we can find out if the power users can mush it up."

I promise you that Sprint is genuinely concerned with the condition of this hardware. They stand a chance of loosing thousands of customers at a time if they are unhappy. I don't sell these phones one at a time. I sell them by the several hundred at a time or, even, thousands. Usually my deals are with very large companies and include "Satisfaction Guaranteed" arrangements with the carrier (Sprint in the case of the Mogul). If one of these companies gets too disturbed with the challenges of a device, the carrier could lose all of it's activations in one fell swoop. So, beleive me, there is great concern behind the scenes, right now.

matt

[Pibe38]

Originally Posted by livejazz

Actually, dishe, you are close to very accurate. Truth is, though, that there are a few of us on here that have direct connections with Sprint technical and some cordial and objective dissimination of usage reviews and criticism is very helpful when we speak with these brainiacs at Sprint. Beleive it or not, they actually ask what we have seen on the forums. This is why there are a couple of forums that I have been a member of for a long time without posts that are proportional to my length of membership. I do a lot of reading and relaying information. These nice techs are pulling their hair out, right now, over this ROM. Quotes go something like this:

"That is why we wait to put these things on our web site so that only the insiders get them and we can find out if the power users can mush it up."

I promise you that Sprint is genuinely concerned with the condition of this hardware. They stand a chance of loosing thousands of customers at a time if they are unhappy. I don't sell these phones one at a time. I sell them by the several hundred at a time or, even, thousands. Usually my deals are with very large companies and include "Satisfaction Guaranteed" arrangements with the carrier (Sprint in the case of the Mogul). If one of these companies gets too disturbed with the challenges of a device, the carrier could lose all of it's activations in one fell swoop. So, beleive me, there is great concern behind the scenes, right now.

matt

The only one thing that bothers me from their statement is that they say that they wait to put the updates on their site.

I have mentioned this a couple of times before, but the downloads section for the WM OS on the Sprint site has not been updated since Palm released the SMS patch for the 700wx. They never posted the 1.15 update for the 700wx and they never posted the 2.09 ROM for the Mogul.

Also, when you click on Available Updates from the launchpad home page on the Mogul itself, it says there are no updates available, meaning 2.09 for the Mogul never made it there either.

I believe it's nice if they feel this way, but if this is their position on that matter, then no updates out there have been sanctioned by Sprint since they have not posted them.

[livejazz]

Originally Posted by Pibe38

The only one thing that bothers me from their statement is that they say that they wait to put the updates on their site.

I have mentioned this a couple of times before, but the downloads section for the WM OS on the Sprint site has not been updated since Palm released the SMS patch for the 700wx. They never posted the 1.15 update for the 700wx and they never posted the 2.09 ROM for the Mogul.

Also, when you click on Available Updates from the launchpad home page on the Mogul itself, it says there are no updates available, meaning 2.09 for the Mogul never made it there either.

I believe it's nice if they feel this way, but if this is their position on that matter, then no updates out there have been sanctioned by Sprint since they have not posted them.

I have seen you speak about that. It is very frustrating to all of us mushrooms, isn't it? Truth is that it is, simply, left hand not speaking to the right. The Sprint higher-ups make that arrangement with HTC, contractually. The Sprint people do, in fact, work hand-in-hand on the ROM projects (with plenty of MS help) but by releasing the ROMs on the HTC site, first, the Sprint technical administrators beleive that it will provide somewhat of a filter in case there are any hiccups prior to any misunderstanding consumers getting a hold of it. It worked, in this case, perfectly. Sprint users are told to check the Sprint update page (sprint.com/downloads) for their updates.

If you remember, Sprint has said from the beginning that an official ROM update would be forthcoming (albeit they did say in the Fall) all along and even prior to release of the device. My feeling is that these releases were releases that HTC may have been more motivated to let out for their own credibility. In-as-much as the Sprint writers have input, we all know that this last ROM release was, primarily, fixing what was probably driver issues that have to do with HTC and not Sprint or Microsoft. So, for sure, if I were Sprint I would say "ok, let's let them get that on their site and see how the ppcgooks and pdaphonehome folks get along with it.

Some of this is speculative based on my experience, but most is personal knowledge. I can say that, in some respects, the technical folks are just as much mushrooms as all of us and most didn't even know of a new ROM until they started getting support calls.

matt

[KDiDDyDaDoN]

News flash for all the "I'm leaving Sprint cause of this BS" people. SPRINT DOES NOT CARE ABOUT YOU. If you have a contract with them then your paying to leave. If you don't good for you. But don't rant and rave like a 13 year old girl not getting to go on a date cause daddy doesn't approve. suck it up and be Men/Women and take it with a grain of salt.

[Pibe38]

Originally Posted by livejazz

I have seen you speak about that. It is very frustrating to all of us mushrooms, isn't it? Truth is that it is, simply, left hand not speaking to the right. The Sprint higher-ups make that arrangement with HTC, contractually. The Sprint people do, in fact, work hand-in-hand on the ROM projects (with plenty of MS help) but by releasing the ROMs on the HTC site, first, the Sprint technical administrators beleive that it will provide somewhat of a filter in case there are any hiccups prior to any misunderstanding consumers getting a hold of it. It worked, in this case, perfectly. Sprint users are told to check the Sprint update page (sprint.com/downloads) for their updates.

If you remember, Sprint has said from the beginning that an official ROM update would be forthcoming (albeit they did say in the Fall) all along and even prior to release of the device. My feeling is that these releases were releases that HTC may have been more motivated to let out for their own credibility. In-as-much as the Sprint writers have input, we all know that this last ROM release was, primarily, fixing what was probably driver issues that have to do with HTC and not Sprint or Microsoft. So, for sure, if I were Sprint I would say "ok, let's let them get that on their site and see how the ppcgooks and pdaphonehome folks get along with it.

Some of this is speculative based on my experience, but most is personal knowledge. I can say that, in some respects, the technical folks are just as much mushrooms as all of us and most didn't even know of a new ROM until they started getting support calls.

matt

Well... I, once again, disagree up to a point. Before I continue please don't take me disagreeing in a bad way, it's nothing against you, it's just a different opinion. I actually appreciate your input very much, and enjoy being able to discuss this in a mature way on these past posts

Anyway, if that were the case (Sprint letting HTC release updates on their site to let us test them before they release them on their site) I would believe this to be a very shady practice. It's like saying, well you release it first and if it works I'll put it on my site, if it doesn't, then you take all the blame even though we've been working on this together.

Also, as mentioned by other users before, if minimal testing had been done on their side, they would have seen these issues without having to use power users as guinea pigs, or beta testers.

Finally, when Sprint 'announced' the 2.16 ROM on their forums (BuzzAboutWireless), they linked to the HTC site. So even if their mentality was to let HTC release it on their site and wait for results before they post it on Sprint.com, it can be tracked to them.

Still doesn't explain why the 2.09 ROM and the 1.15 update for the 700wx are not on their site since they have been out for a while. I do believe, as you said, that the left hand does not talk to the right hand... and it is very frustrating for the users. I know Sprint and HTC work together on software releases, I just think that users expected a little more from both HTC and Sprint given HTC's experience.

And I speak for most other users, I have actually been kind of lucky with the 2.16 ROM since it has only locked up twice for me. The only constant issue I have encountered is the d-pad not working after BT has been on for a while, and that can be worked around with screen.

Anuway, I'll just say again (just in case), this is my opinion only and it's meant for the sake of discussion, not attacking anyone, complaining, etc.

[dishe]

Once again, the best thing HTC could do is release a phone with an available Developer's Kit for the community.
That's how these things are packaged to the OEM's... I played with an industrial PPC recently that my friend was working with for his job (the kind with a barcode scanner attached that they use in stores like Target for inventory and Point of Sale). Its so interesting how this stuff works...
The manufacturer sells the hardware to the client (for example, Target), and gives them an SDK to develop firmware for their own needs. The developers at the Target Coorperate HQ create a ROM and distribute the device to their stores and train the employees in their use.

In our case, HTC develops hardware and gives Sprint a development kit to install and create firmware for their customers.
Then, we as users determined to make it work properly, have to reverse-engineer the software, essentially ripping it apart to try and figure out how things work and then put it back together again in a fashion that suits the general user community. Sprint sort of knows about it, but they turn a blind eye because officially they don't want to support such efforts. Its sad that devices are often left to the development community to support.

Now, how amazing would it be if HTC just handed the SDK over to us and said "here, we saved you the trouble. Make the phone work how you want it to"???

[shaun0207]

I dont know anything about custom ROMs or what they need to work. But couldnt someone just take either the 2.09 ROM from Sprint and cross it with everyhing that works from the Alltel ROM, like BT, annd maybe drop the GPS function from a T-mob Wing into it?

I really dont know how to do this. But maybe it would help solve the problem.

[livejazz]

Originally Posted by dishe

Once again, the best thing HTC could do is release a phone with an available Developer's Kit for the community.
That's how these things are packaged to the OEM's... I played with an industrial PPC recently that my friend was working with for his job (the kind with a barcode scanner attached that they use in stores like Target for inventory and Point of Sale). Its so interesting how this stuff works...
The manufacturer sells the hardware to the client (for example, Target), and gives them an SDK to develop firmware for their own needs. The developers at the Target Coorperate HQ create a ROM and distribute the device to their stores and train the employees in their use.

In our case, HTC develops hardware and gives Sprint a development kit to install and create firmware for their customers.
Then, we as users determined to make it work properly, have to reverse-engineer the software, essentially ripping it apart to try and figure out how things work and then put it back together again in a fashion that suits the general user community. Sprint sort of knows about it, but they turn a blind eye because officially they don't want to support such efforts. Its sad that devices are often left to the development community to support.

Now, how amazing would it be if HTC just handed the SDK over to us and said "here, we saved you the trouble. Make the phone work how you want it to"???

Funny, I actually have two different generations of those on my desk, right now.