HTC Performance (overclocking) OEM

[tronnixx]

Originally Posted by orionsbuckle

this is ok to use on our TP???

No, you cant use the HTC Performance app on the touch because it uses the TI OMAP processor. However, you can use Power Hack Master.

[weedahoe]

Originally Posted by tronnixx

I SAID IT IS NOT CONSIDERED OVERCLOCKING because the PXA27X is designed to operate at 312-416-520-624. None of those frequencies are considered overclocking. If you go over 624, then yes. But this processor is actually designed for 1 of those 4. Believe it or not, in some embedded devices using the same processor the default freq. is 520Mhz. Next time please read my post more carefully. It does indeed speed it up over 416Mhz safely without damage as it was designed by Intel this way. Again, it's not considered overclocking. HTC probably wanted it at 416Mhz for battery reasons, or for a new model with the same processor perhaps.

I read your post and completely understand what you are trying to say but perhaps you should go back and read mine because I said we all are aware of the current Mhz of which the processors run at and we all know what they are capable of. The HTC Advantage for instance runs by default at 624. But what I was trying to convey to you is that most people HERE will consider taking the 6700 which is default at 416 to 624 as OC'ing because the carrier or manufacture locks it in at that slower rate for various reasons. So although it is not true OC'ing because the CPU is capable of that, many here call it that because they are forcing it to a higher Mhz because it is higher than the carrier/manufacture standard. I agree true OC'ing will consist of cryo/hydro-cooling the CPU in normal cases but there is a difference of 'understanding' on here v/s a PC board. Does that make sense?

[tronnixx]

Originally Posted by weedahoe

I read your post and completely understand what you are trying to say but perhaps you should go back and read mine because I said we all are aware of the current Mhz of which the processors run at and we all know what they are capable of. The HTC Advantage for instance runs by default at 624. But what I was trying to convey to you is that most people HERE will consider taking the 6700 which is default at 416 to 624 as OC'ing because the carrier or manufacture locks it in at that slower rate for various reasons. So although it is not true OC'ing because the CPU is capable of that, many here call it that because they are forcing it to a higher Mhz because it is higher than the carrier/manufacture standard. I agree true OC'ing will consist of cryo/hydro-cooling the CPU in normal cases but there is a difference of 'understanding' on here v/s a PC board. Does that make sense?

I agree... Many do think it's "hacking" the system to go to speeds it was not designed for when in fact it is...

I guess the proper term for people to use would be "Clock Stepping" or "Speed Stepping".

[weedahoe]

Originally Posted by tronnixx

I agree... Many do think it's "hacking" the system to go to speeds it was not designed for when in fact it is...

I guess the proper term for people to use would be "Clock Stepping" or "Speed Stepping".

Ive never thought of it this way but I guess your right.

[tronnixx]

Ok, I am working on a new, and eventually freeware utility that will allow better control and more visible stepping of the PXA27x cpu to it's other frequencies. Standard Frequencies that is.

I am not sure if this is the right forum for this, but if there are any developers out there my question is:

I need to be able to set the clock frequency for the Intel XScale PXA27X dynamically from within Win CE. I looked to see if the Win CE Power Manager libraries (and other libraries in coredll lib) contain any functions to set the clock or least the IPM parameters but they do not. Just contain sleep modes, battery status, etc.

So, before I develop a driver which will communicate to the Intel SpeedStep Power Manager (via I2c) I would like to know if there is either another built in driver lib. or a 3rd party driver that would allow the integration to this app.

I wonder what XCPUScaler and Power Hack Master is using. And whatever method the HTC Performance Utility uses, I would love to get my hands on because there is no running applications or processes. I am thinking it is storing the new freq's directly to the IPM EEPROM or could use another HTC OEM driver...

If someone can help me with this one thing; I promise I will get you this util made fast.

If you can e-mail me at TeleProdLLC @ gmail . com

Thanks a mil!

[gguruusa]

Originally Posted by tronnixx

I agree... Many do think it's "hacking" the system to go to speeds it was not designed for when in fact it is...

lol - Just because one part of a device is speced to run faster than it is, does not mean that the system will tolerate it. The system was designed to run at the speed you received it running at. Whatever consequence there is for running faster is totally your responsibility. In the case at hand, it's hard to say if the reason the CPU is underclocked is because of power issues or heat issues or longevity issues or something else.

What is clear is that a lot of people have overclocked with no discernable consequence beyond needing to charge more often.

[tronnixx]

Originally Posted by gguruusa

lol - Just because one part of a device is speced to run faster than it is, does not mean that the system will tolerate it. The system was designed to run at the speed you received it running at. Whatever consequence there is for running faster is totally your responsibility. In the case at hand, it's hard to say if the reason the CPU is underclocked is because of power issues or heat issues or longevity issues or something else.

What is clear is that a lot of people have overclocked with no discernable consequence beyond needing to charge more often.

Where do I start? There are a few points needing correction. I know this processor inside and out. I hate to keep bouncing back to previous posts but you need to understand the following:

The Intel XScale PXA270, T.I. OMAP 850, and ANY other DVS (Dynamic Voltage Scaling) processor is designed to operate at any of those frequencies pre-set or dynamically scaling based on load. It's is not overclocked, it is just plain stepping.

The reason they call it stepping is because it steps the processor clock speed (i.e. voltage). The XScale (if enabled and depending how the OEM configured it) steps from say 312 to 416 to 520 to 624mhz as it needs and goes back down when under less or no load.

The reason no one has had problems with it (besides going through battery quicker) is because it is designed this way.

HTC did not set it at 416Mhz because they were afraid it would cook it. They set it for power management reasons and figured that device would benefit more at 416Mhz.

You said "just because one part of the device is spec'd at one speed just mean the system will tolerate it". The PXA270 processor in the htc IS THE SYSTEM. If you're familur with the Intel Xscale PXA27X and T.I. OMAP processors you would know that they are SoC's (System On Chips). In fact, on the HTC 6700 almost all core system control is on the 1 pxa270 chip. Really the only external chips are the T.I. DS 15xx battery managment IC, DACs, ADCs, power regulators, clock crystals, wifi transceiver, bluetooth transceiver, T.I. PCM codec IC, etc. Any system component that would be affected by clock stepping (or incorrectly labeled overclocking) is built in to the PXA270. In other words, it is designed to tolerate it.

You are right about the battery charge. That is the only reason your phone did not come at 624Mhz. HTC figures if they put it at 624Mhz it would drain the battery rapidly, not many people even fully utilize the 416Mhz, why would they need 624Mhz and pay with reduced battery life...

I promise you, no one will damage their phone at a Intel Spec'd frequency. Just don't try to run it at a frequency not listed by intel. Intel PXA270 Spec Standard Freqs: 312-416-520-624. There are a few others freqs that are not standard but stay away. You will fry it if you mess with the lcd clock, bus clock, ram clock and cpu clock if your not within spec or scaling between non-standard and standard freqs. Intel warns of switching between say a bus of 208Mhz and 211Mhz, 104Mhz ram clock and 111Mhz ram clock.

NO OVERCLOCKING... CALL IT CLOCKING... OR STEPPING... as weedahoe said, there is no external cooling or running at speeds it wasnt designed for. It's not overclocking, thus there is nothing for anything to tolerate.

[gguruusa]

Yep, the cpu is designed to run at all those speeds. But, there's plenty of systems the cpu has to interact with that I can't begin to tell you the engineering of. What I do know is the device gets hotter than hell under certain conditions even with a reduced clock. Think of it this way...I can put an 800 hp engine in my chevette, and the engine will idle just fine. It'll also twist the frame into a pretzel. Unless you know initmately the design specs of ALL the components and how the device fared during environmental testing, which I'll be the first to admit I don't know, you really have no idea what will happen if you change how 1 part runs,...regardless of whether that single part is designed to deal with the change.

And the xscale processor is not "the system". That's way off base.

[weedahoe]

Thats a good anaolgy with the Chevtte. Me personally, the 67 is gotten so much age behind it and no newer device has came out with the same CPE that I dont quite understand ppl still wanting to mod it and trick it out more than what has already been done. If you are just stepping on the PPC scene then I think its a good device to start out with as its like a bike, we all had one. But we all also graduated to faster and more powerful toys as well. I understand what tronnixx is trying to do but it is hard to do on a device that no one (very few ppl) have compare to how many had it this same time last year. And so with that I just think you are investing too much time on a dead star that no one looks up in the sky to see or even realizes it is there anymore.

[tronnixx]

Originally Posted by gguruusa

Yep, the cpu is designed to run at all those speeds. But, there's plenty of systems the cpu has to interact with that I can't begin to tell you the engineering of. What I do know is the device gets hotter than hell under certain conditions even with a reduced clock. Think of it this way...I can put an 800 hp engine in my chevette, and the engine will idle just fine. It'll also twist the frame into a pretzel. Unless you know initmately the design specs of ALL the components and how the device fared during environmental testing, which I'll be the first to admit I don't know, you really have no idea what will happen if you change how 1 part runs,...regardless of whether that single part is designed to deal with the change.

And the xscale processor is not "the system". That's way off base.

You just made me pull my hair out...
It's not off base at all. You may not be able to tell me about the engineering of it, but I can assure you that I can. I have worked with the XScale in many embedded systems. It's part of what I do...

The processor in the 6700 is most of the system, hence that is why they call it a System on Chip. I am not saying that the CPU does not heat up more at a higher frequency because of course it does, and you dont need to be a engineer to know that.

But what I am telling you is that it is designed to run safely at up to 624Mhz. Again, it will run warmer but it will not damage it.

HTC and many other OEMs choose the XScale (or other SoCs) because they contain most of the system within and therefore it means less engineering and external components.

You cannot compare the XScale to a Intel Pentium, or a car for that matter. The XScale contains MOST of the internal systems that would be affected by a clock change.

The only components external to the CPU that would be affected by the speed of the proccessor would be the EEPROM/RAM/ROM chips but it would not damage them because the requirments on the pxa270 for the memory are compatible at 624mhz too.. I did my research

Now, indirectly speeding up the clock increases current draw (of course) on other components but the power devices and hardware in the XV6700 can tolerate it. It's quite a well built system.

I don't understand how people that don't understand the inner engineering of something can argue with someone who does...

Please, do your research before making such an assumption... If you would like to continue this debate on a technical level go to: http://www.phytec.com/pdf/datasheets/PXA270_DS.pdf (PXA270 Design PDF). In particular, look at Page 14 (The Block Diagram). Most of the systems built in to this processor are those that are on the motherboard in a typical PC. Such as Real-Time Clocks, Serial UARTS, etc.

How do you think they manage to fit such a computer in to a tiny case? If it were not for SoC's this phone would be twice the size!

Weedahoe: You are right, but I am only investing time in to it because somtimes it's just more fun this way