Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

I came across this article and found it interesting. There are some valid points but maybe the author has failed to realize that there are some loyal Windows Phone users.

Yes, I have transitioned to Android and personally, I'm glad I did. But what are your thoughts on this article and the fate of Windows Phone 7???

No, this thread is not meant to be a pi$$ing match for which platform is better!

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/3242...eis-doomed.htm

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

A interesting read. Maybe it's true, Microsoft is a little too late, as MS will show a new phone platform, Apple and google/android has had time to build their base. It will take a long time for MS to build up their WP7 only app library, when both the others already have a HUGE head start.

It's a known fact, some of Microsoft's loyal phone users are slowly moving to other phone platforms because WM has been OK for the last few years, not awsome by any means (6.5 is a step in the right direction but, in no way awsome compared to other platforms).

Now that WP7 is abanding all past users (no app compat with WP7) and totaly changing the platform, it is a big risk. They might get it all, or lose even their most loyal. It's something to be seen.

I've been with Microsoft from PocketPC 1.0 and every version inbetween. I am also a known MS fanboy. WP7 is their last shot with me, if it is not WOW, I will be moving platforms myself.

Maybe they are a little too late.....

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

This is Microsoft we are talking about. They have are doing what they need to do at this point in time.
We are a dying breed... I mean those of us who have been with MS since Win CE and gone through thick and thin with them. Most of us are still with them. I now have 4 fanboys of my own. One 20 one 16 and two Little guys. They are the target audience for MS. Microsoft already has me. I'm not changing platforms. And if you did... No big loss. MS is putting out a product that can be used the way people want to use their phones.... You don't think they've studied the market and done their research?
Yeah... It's an uphill battle... But Microsoft is entering with some big guns and they're coming out swinging.
I can't wait for Holliday season 2010.
p.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

i think its to early to call it doomed but i will say the odds are HEAVILY stacked against them. with the marketing juggernaught that is apple and with android getting 160k activations a month, microsoft will have to bring their a game. they will have a customer in me, i will get a wp7 at launch to see what its like but they truly have an uphill battle but its way too early imo to say their doomed before its evn released.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

hopefully its not the same reasearch team that worked on the kin phones lol ;)

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Yeah, I wasn't really calling it doomed myself but more or less just relaying what the article itself asks. I definitely agree they have a HUGE uphill battle ahead of them. I have been a Windows Phone user for years now but I also have experience with linux and I truly can see open source having endless possibilities moving forward. I was always "satisfied" with my WP, especially the TP2. But with my Evo, I am extremely impressed. I guess only time will truly tell what happens to MS in the mobile phone market, starting with the release of WP7.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Don't worry the people that worked on the kin will not work on the initial WP7 release..only the people that helped Kin fail worked on it lol (Read the article on engadget)


But yes, I see this is not going to be well for M$, they are taking a long time to do the release and when they finally come out with one in fall/christmas they will most likely be facing against the CDMA iphone.

I personally think that M$ made it worse for themselves by breaking the tie with verizon who is going to push an LTE phone by end of this year as they promise...even if a 4g phone comes out with WP7, unless they can convince sprint to let legacy plans use it or drop the $10 fee or etc...because as trens show..sprint sucks at marketing devices through...and since it looks like sprint will be doing the release phone they better be ready to put in some serious money...

And lastly..if M$ does not put in youtube and puts their LIVE video only like on the kin it will be a /facepalm

And for their sakes they really need to stop calling it Windows Phone....Windows = PC if you ask any person..well almsot any to most others Windows = a hole in the wall that you can look out and see outside sometimes made of glass (crazy I know)

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

I still think they should have branded it the X-Phone with its ties to X-Box Live instead of Windows, with which it has nothing in common with.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Windows != PC... Windows = Microsoft = reputation.

Ppl said the same thing when MS launched the XBOX. "Microsoft means computers. not video games..." And now look wherethe XBOX is at... MS SUCCESSFULLY (emphasis intended) made their brand a household name for not only PC, but for video games. And they came into that market WAY late in the game... What makes anyone think that they can't do that in the phone arena?

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Ok 2 things...

1) Microsoft is the name of a company..a company can do many things..Windows on the other hand is a product.. imagine M$ came in next day and called Microsoft Office the XBOX and the XBOX Microsoft office..wouldn't you be confused? you dont have to convince me..ask anyone what Windows is..they will tell you its a computer....I mean M$ even makes commercials saying Windows = PC...

2) The reason why M$ got through the market was 2 things, 1) they paid developers money to make the games..aka bribe...that won't work here because Google is already doing the bribing (its actually one of the reasons Google broke through with Android) and also a lot of game publishers were frustrated with Sony and they lost a bunch of exclusives...

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

number 2 is funny....bribing....the bigger the bribe the easier to take is the rule of thumb....plus you forgot to mention that Xbox is a great product and that is why it was successful...also Sony is not hurting by any means with the PS3 so I don't think they lost too many exclusives...lets remember MS is a big dog in this game also...they are not going to just lie down and let market share go without a fight...

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Ok but once a company is already bribed its harder to get them to switch sides..not to mention put more financial burden where as before M$ would have needed to pay less..now they must beat Google's bribe + make it worth it for the company.

Not to mention the bribe is not in raw cash...they give the carriers and manufacturers a % of adwords and app store....There is no way bing search advertising is on par with adwords in revenue...and the manufacturer takes a bigger risk with an undeveloped app store...

And lastly, Verizon will not launch the WP7 phones due to the fiasco with the Kin...aka your going in with a new product and already the largest carrier doesn't want your product...AT&T will always be iphone oriented...so only one to push is Sprint..but hey, Sprint did wonders for Palm did it not? >.>

I'm not exactly saying M$ is doomed as in this title but the odds against them is REALLY BAD

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

source?

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

GRRRRR...goddammit microsoft!! thanks for the bad news jerk lol, just kidding, thanks though

EDIT: after reading it a couple times its not as bad as i thought. i guess there wont be any verizon wp7 phones when it first drops, not that they wont carry them at all ever, thats what i thought you were saying

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Well of course, this is the initial launch..but how long this will last also depends since Verizon was originally one of the launch partners and now it is not..then Verizon may be ticked that M$ left them out and not stock their phones for a while and focus marketing their cdma iphones for a year...either way its not a good start from M$ end...

Obviously eventually they will be on Verizon..assuming it lives to tell about it..

Aka we know the initial launch is what will make or break WP7

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

the initial launch will be important yes, but it wont make or break the brand, marketing and devs will. if they dont sell a million in the first month that doesnt mean it wont take off. m$ has too much riding on this, this isnt the red headed stepchild that was the kin, this is one of their bread and butter projects.

the kin was just a perfect storm of fail you could say. wrong timing, wrong carrier choice, poor product, poor software, etc all those put together is why it only lasted 2 months. wp7 will be around for YEARS for sure. it may not be the next big thing or wildly popular but microsoft isnt gonna just lay down on this one even if the launch isnt the 2nd coming of the iphone.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

But the market is different these days..if they don't break through early on it will kill them for other reasons...

Remember that manufacturers actually have to PAY licensing fees to sell the OS to M$...where as using their own platforms and/or android is free.

So if you were a manufacturer..which handsets would you release..ones that that are more popular and you make more profit on..or less popular that you have to pay fees for thus making less money?

Remember, they pretty much killed off their winmo base with wp7 by the looks of things..if they don't break through..manufacturers and consumers will just abandon them little by little...

The mobile department also has high maintenance costs to M$ as well and if its not earning its keep it won't bode well..

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

For me the move meant I have to carry 2 PDA's, the Evo for general use and the TP2 for HanDBase. There are times I really enjoy the Evo and other times I outright hate it. The TP2 has always been in the "enjoy" column. The Evo in the "hate" column more than I care to think about. Will I go back? No. I may though move on the the next big guy with a real live keyboard. Incidentally, the cost to get the Evo to do what I want is not a factor, only the missing hardware keyboard.

The HanDBase developer is more than aware of my desire for a Windows 7 release, which he says is not in the immediate future due to restrictions placed by Microsoft.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

I still find it very odd that there is no zune app. I don't understand how they are trying to compete with a phone that was the hellspawn of an mp3 player if they won't let users of phones that are more than capable of anything, use the companies music service.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

good point, im not the biggest music fan but i know many are. they will need something esp with google bringing in their own music sharing service with gingerbread

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

My guess is it boils down with this..if they copy Apple and include WP7 inside the Zune they will get complaints from their Hardware partners...(since zune is manufactured by M$..well at least produced by them)

But yes it is kinda silly on their side..I mean Zune HD beat the iphone 3gs except the development is dead :/

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

The problem as I see it with WP7 is timing. They are releasing a phone that is seriously short on options compared to what the WM6.x line already delivered on.

While there are some new features, what made it a Windows device is forever lost. They went to look at what the competition was bringing to the table and cloned it some form or another. Unfortunately for them what they cloned was about the first generation (software wise) of each device.

On top of their "lack of timing" anything new that they bring to the table, I'm sure the competition is more then happy to steal into their designs since Microsoft stole the whole concept from Apple. Whatever new innovations that is currently being integrated into WP7 has probably already been reversed engineered and will be seen in a future Apple or Gingerbread update whenever those are released.

What's Microsoft going to do then, sue? I can hear Apple now, hey here's a Windows 6.x device and here's a iPhone from 3 years ago. Now here's a WP7 device and here's a current iPhone, who copied from who?

It's going to be so much easier to integrate a couple of cool features into an already stable OS then to start from the ground up as Microsoft decided to do.

While I still haven't given up my PPC-6800 because I'm not fully happy with Android yet, I can't see trying something that's practically 3 years stale out the door. Plus in January if the iPhone goes to Verizon as rumored and finally off of AT&T, why not just go to the original designer of the phone Microsoft cloned? Why pay Microsoft anything for stealing a design concept to begin with?

Finally GSM, really? Nearly everyone I know despises AT&T. Who in their right mind is going to leave Sprint to go AT&T and their newly imposed metered data plans. We already know that Verizon is passing on the initial release. That alone might hurt Microsoft sales enough for WP7 "Kin" levels of karma to kick in.

I guess we will see what happens after this holiday season, but personally I'm really disappointed in what M$ did and eagerly await it's judgment day.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Why do people keep talking about an OS that is not even out yet "Doomed"
"lost" "no chance" etc. WTH?

Look at the Xbox, Did it have a chance seeing as how it was joining in on a market that already had the big 3? (Sega later departed but hey shows you how hard the market was to figure out.) Did Microsoft not "Fix" Windows with Win7 for all those people who disliked Vista? Did Android really have a clear chance when it first came out vs Winmo, BB, Palm, iPhone, etc?

Everything going into WP7 looks fantastic, things that are not in it yet will be added later. (and more than likely months not years later) and the direction they are going allows for more universal app support (less this app works on this phone and not that one) universal driver requirements (no more broken drivers, slow devices, etc) and overall ease of use.

One thing Microsoft Sees and knows they need is Dev support. Look at Win Mobile now. Almost every large dev that makes apps is making them for Android and iOS but not WM6. This really blows for us WM6.X users now but its mainly due to the fact that making 1 great app for all WM devices really is becoming a pain in the neck. With WM7 the app support is much easier and fluid which should help make apps easier to develop and easier to distribute to all the devices with a much more guarantee that it WILL work.

Now if you need something that it cannot do out of the box, what in the world makes you think that outside devs will leave it like that? Seriously? the iPhone can be Jailbroken, Android Rooted, Why do you think WP7 will be locked forever? Mass USB support? Of course, File Managers? Sure, outside app installs? Duh.

Wait until the phone makes it out and Microsoft with a clear goal in mind, starts putting real pressure on the competition. OF course you are not forced to choose one or the other OS out there, but the pressure of such a large company as Microsoft against Google and Apple = Great pressure to make the OS better than the other guy. That in turn means better support and options for the consumer. So until the OS is out (and then hopefully after a year I say) then be the judge of the OS/Device.. Until then. Please people stop with the ignorant nonsense about WP7. If you really don't want to believe it will succeed, nobody is keeping you from going to Android or iOS.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

I looked at two recent reviews of it on BGR and CNET, it seems none of the reviewers liked it. Just looking at it, it seems to be overly complicated for no reason. Too much eye candy with all those moving tiles on the home screen. MS's biggest problem with the old WinMo was that it was too techy for the average user and they seem to be making it worse with 7.

I hope they get their act straight on release day, the way it is looking now is going to be a disaster, only the hardcore nerds will buy it, the rest will stick to the iphones, androids and bb.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

The XBOX succeeded because microsoft gave away money to the developers...at the same time Sony lost quite a few exclusives and Nitendo started targeting little kids...sega was already pretty much out just by their release times...

Yes..same way they fixed win ME with XP..by making you pay 2x for something that is defective and then for a fix...

Android got support because Google started to pay manufacturers to use Android, which interested the dieing Motorola cellphone division and teamed up with Verizon (who actually knows how to market) created the "Droid" campaign.

People already have those features elsewhere....unlike buying a game console or on operating system you have to cough up a 2 year contract for something incomplete?

M$ took too long getting their appstore out.and they killed most of the development by saying WP7 won't support old apps...there used to be a LOT of APPS for winmo that others didn't have...

Same reason we aren't hacking the Instinct?

---------------------------------------------------

M$ is not gonna get a golden pass in..if they can't pull through fast enough they will be eaten by the competition...similar to what happened to the kin...I'm not saying exactly they are doomed but out of all the things they have done, this is the longest stretch....

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Here's a preview from Engadget. Overall it's positive. The only things I can see that I really don't like about WP7 is the lack of multitasking and the Facebook integration (I might actually be able to live with no copy and paste). My biggest problem with the Facebook stuff is that certain people, like me, who don't use Facebook that much or not at all, won't need all the Facebook stuff. Also, say in a few years Facebook loses popularity when the next big social networking site comes around. Remember when Myspace was all the rage and Facebook was only used by college kids?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/w...depth-preview/

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

What's to live with? Why the hell does every talk like it's never coming? It won't be there at launch but soon after in an update it'll get it. It's not that big of a deal.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Most of the reviews I have read seem to be pretty positive as well. Responsive touch, different interface. I agree, most of the general complaints have been with the facebook thing, copy and paste, and multitasking. Hopefully by release, the facebook thing will be like similar to Sense, where it only "updates" the information from your phone contact list, and not all your "friends" on facebook.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Well this is the rule by the nature that the person always likes what he has seen first. So if the android came first then windows have to suffer the loss.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

This is going to be wildly successful. First, this isn't a from scratch OS since it is built oo top of CE. It also isn't a copy from Apple when you take into account that they are just finally tackling the capacitive screen features of the phone. Not to mentioned realized after too many years that a start button does not make a Microsoft OS.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Wildly successful based on what? I have to disagree.. and not even based on what the OS may or may not be able to do.. but moreso on the fact that they took WAY too long to debut it. And November is STILL 3 months away and who knows how many phones will have come out by then. On top of that winmo lost a ton of users to Android.. and with the plethora of phones droid has been pumping out lately I dont see many people making the switch back to windows.

Im sure they wont bomb, but timing is everything and microsoft pretty much blew it in that retrospect. Had it made a debut around the summer I probably would've checked it out since I wasnt too far gone from the tp2.. but at this point and after having my evo for a while I have no desire to go back. Especially with the news of how they've practically closed off the OS and made it a social networking phone.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Well really, nothing right now is out that is as smooth as the iphone experience. Even Android's UI is inconsistant at times, the pinch to zoom can be a little choppy.. but if you want an iphone-like experience on another carrier without the price tag of an iphone you really have just android. And as far as the 'well WP7 isnt as tweakable, mutlitasking, etc' i really dont think most consumers care about those things. Heck i dont really care about those things much anymore. Multitasking has NEVER been a feature i like on WM. Either it slows down the device, its useless when the two programs you want to switch between close each other when you open one, or it drains your battery.

Oh and dont forget, Android was a dud up until the droid marketing campaign. It was then that a real iphone competitor hit a major national carrier.

I just really hope they dont market it with the typical bright color generic happy music that seems to permeate windows marketing these days. They need something cool and unique.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

id say wp7 is more responsive than andriod, and just as good as ios4, or yet even better.
here are recent reviews of it
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/19/w...depth-preview/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt72pnfAPvE

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

Are we watching the same videos?:scratch:

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

I looks like a refreshing change to me, I plan on getting one for my wife and waiting for the ones with a keyboard for myself.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

you couldn't even pay me to own a wp7. that UI looks like it was drawn up by a 2nd grader. i talked to sprint the other day and they tell me they aren't even planning to carry those phones to their knowledge. winmo isn't a hot seller for them android is.

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=741131

now if it looked like that, maybe?

Re: Windows Phone 7... Doomed?
 

thats your opinion, i think the ui looks great. and you never know it may come to sprint, just not at launch date.

check this petition out
http://community.sprint.com/baw/message/199792#199792

DOOM Reply
 

Maybe there is just too much "toilet paper" in GUIs in Mobile Operating systems nowadays. There's a reason we don't have it on the desktop, and that happens to be the same reason I hate it on a mobile. IMO.

- 2 Bunny