Piracy, warez and You.

[badutahboy]

A couple people have touched on this point, but nobody has done a great job of explaining it.

Let's be real.. Software IS overpriced. Not only is it more expensive than it was 7-8 years ago, but its costs are way down compared to what they were back then.

When I got my first PPC in 2001ish, I bought a bunch of software for it.. The most expensive piece of software I bought was 19.95. That price included the cost of development. production, marketing, wholesaling, and retailing. Back then, nobody sold their stuff online.. It was all retail.. The developer probably ended up with $6.50 of the $20 I paid.

Today, not only are developers saving a TON by not having the same production costs, but they're now banking the entire amount by cutting out the middle men (with some exceptions).. They're not only making 3x as much per unit, they're selling 50 times as many units, because EVERYONE has a PPC now, where very few people did as little as 3-4 years ago.

You can point to piracy as a cause, but the true cause is greed.


Now, to change the subject a bit to music piracy.. I find this argument hilarious, because there are a TON of bands who are big names specifically because of piracy, and the online music movement.. In fact, many record labels release music for free download now just to promote their bands, yet at the same time, they complain about piracy hurting the bottom line. Almost everyone I know downloads a CD before they buy it, but most everyone I know actually buys the CD if it's worth anything.. The ones that suck are the only ones getting hurt, because I don't know anyone who goes back and buys the 2-3 individual songs that they liked, but if they like the majority of the CD, they go buy it because they want the cover art and insert.

Piracy helps these industries just as much as it hurts them. As has been stated, Piracy represents a fairly small percentage of the copies of software in circulation, but pirates are usually the most informed about their devices, and the most likely to show their stuff off. Every pirate has at least 3 friends who are either wealthier or just more "honest" than them, who want the software and buy it.. If it weren't for that pirate (who probably would have lived without a piece of software rather than buying it), the developer probably would have lost a couple sales.

To some extent, Piracy is a form of free advertising for developers, and we all know that's the truth.

Now, I'm not just making excuses.. to be honest, I have NO "cracked" software on my PPC.. I've downloaded a few things to test them, but I always delete it or buy the full version. Trials are limited, and generally annoying.. WIth a crack, I can trial it until I can make an informed decision as to whether or not I want to buy the software... With a trial, that may not be the case..

I also find it funny to hear developers crying foul... As someone stated earlier, 90% of todays developers (including bill gates) learned via piracy and reverse engineering. In fact, nearly every developer I know personally is STILL using pirated versions of VB and other various software...

As someone stated earlier, if you want to combat piracy, lower your prices to a more "fair" level... however, most developers would never do that, because they'd rather sell 5 out of 7 pieces of software for full retail with 2 people pirating it, as opposed to selling all 7 by cutting their price by 30-50%.

[CarRamrod]

You are completely right. Software is extremely overpriced. I built my computer last Spring and had the choice of whether to buy Vista Home Premium or XP Professional. I looked at the prices and the difference between the two was only about $50 or so. Now my thinking was, I might was well go with Vista because if I'm gaming I will need it in the future for better games, and it will eventually be what everyone uses like XP is the OS now. It was ridiculous to see them both hovering around $200(Vista was around $230 I think) which is extremely expensive considering the OS's are very similar with improvements each time. I would have pirated XP but doing that is hit-or-miss since some of the downloads don't work fully and such. This is something most people don't see since they don't build their computers, but buy them with the OS preloaded onto it. Now, I could have bought the OEM version for around $100 or less but it only installs once so if I were to reformat I would be screwed. I'm also glad my brother was in graduate school at Pitt because they provided him with Office 2007 which I installed onto my PC. Office is pretty expensive as well so I'm glad I didn't have to pay for it. These are just examples of Micro$hit being a monopoly but there are many different softwares around that are extremely expensive as well. Hell, it's dumb to see video games going up to $60(except for Wii). I mean there is no reason for them to suddenly rise $10. You can't argue it's because of the great graphics and such because computer games are better looking and everything but still cost around $40-$50. I really hate inflation, but that's mostly gas. >_<

[veblen64]

Originally Posted by tbhausen

Market forces, if unspoiled by outside influences like piracy, dictate the value proposition. If something's overpriced and the value proposition isn't there, that seller will perish or adjust accordingly. Piracy skews this equation, by driving prices artificially high.

That scenario seems to assume perfect competition, whereas in reality some of these big software companies wield monopolistic pricing power. And, actually, monopolistic power drives prices artificially high.

Bootlegging of software could very easily drive the market price down to a more-reasonable new equilibrium price as a monopolistic firm must compete with the cheaper substitute good -- the pirated software (which is not truly zero-cost, as evidenced by the fact that many people would buy the legitimate copy instead if it were priced more reasonably).

I'm not advocating piracy. But there is certainly a distinction that needs to be drawn between bootlegging a massively-price-gouged program from a piggy, multi-billion-dollar, monopolistic corporation, and bootlegging a very useful and inexpensive program that some tiny startup company developed on a shoestring budget.

[tbhausen]

You guys don't trust the free-market economy... Overpriced items face competition from those that are a better value. Theft/piracy muddles the system. and short-circuits the free-market process. I bet M$ office suite would cost a lot less if everyone who used it to date actually paid for it.

Todd/Indy

[badutahboy]

Originally Posted by tbhausen

You guys don't trust the free-market economy... Overpriced items face competition from those that are a better value. Theft/piracy muddles the system. and short-circuits the free-market process. I bet M$ office suite would cost a lot less if everyone who used it to date actually paid for it.

Todd/Indy

You're totally wrong. Piracy has very little impact on the market, because most "pirates" would use a different program or go without if they couldn't pirate it... Just as an example, my brother used a pirated version of office for years and years, until he was put in a position where he needed a legit copy. Rather than buy it, he simply switched to open office.

Obviously there are people who'd still buy something, but pirate because it's free, but those people are a relatively small minority. Since pirates are a significant minority of the overall computer population, you're now talking about a minority of a minority who are actually "hurting" the software companies.

[chaser74]

i see everyone pointing out how piracy is bad but yet i find all over this site where i can download or am linked to area that are using HTC software that has been "stolen" from another device to be used on their own. yes piracy is a bad thing but it seems to be a necessary evil in a digital society.

[[sammich]]

The software isn't stolen from other devices. We already own the OS, and there is no price for it. We are usong different/upgraded/tweaked/ versions of the same drivers/2tilities etc...

[chaser74]

so if i own a pc running windows visat i can use it on every pc and tweak it a bit and give it out to everyone? I don not see the logic in your statement nor do i understand it. since you purchased the device and you cannot buy the software it is ok to tweak it and give it out to everyone? All i was pointing was a different way to look at piracy, some things are ok others are not. i am sure that they guys that wrote the software for the phones would like some credit. if i can get the look and feel of a HTC Touch without buying the phone then would i not be taking money fromthe developers ther by comiting piracy at is basic level.

just athoguh

[bkhoste]

Also remeber, in the USA you can sue anyone for anything at anytime. So, if a developer feels you stole their software and were giving it out they could sue the people who own this website. Just another thought.

[[sammich]]

But in all reality, we are not taking away credit. We are just modifying it so that it runs better on our devices. Most of the corporate ROM developers don't even bother following up on our issues. You can't just expect those with brilliant minds to stand by and do nothing.

And @ the vista comment - it costs about $399 for a full version of Windows Vista. It costs $0 to purchase a ROM. they aren't for sale. They aren't banned for sale.