Next WM release any time soon?

[electronicrice]

Originally Posted by 92GTA

Same here. I'm afraid I won't be going back to No2Chem for awhile now

Why be afraid when you're most likely not going to be getting another update for a loooong time since he's more focused on his own projects than the WM builds he was known for?

Besides, DCD's builds are far more stable and bug-free than his are.

[GaMedic]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Why be afraid when you're most likely not going to be getting another update for a loooong time since he's more focused on his own projects than the WM builds he was known for?

Besides, DCD's builds are far more stable and bug-free than his are.

Wow you seem bitter. These guys do this for free ya know. Gotta cut them some slack. I know it has been a "while" since we had an update. I personally don't consider 1-2 months a while when people are not getting paid. Yes I know some people have donated to help there cause. That is still not like getting paid. If they were being paid to put the time into the project and not producing results then yes it would be an issue. If you personally like using DCD's then thats great, but it doesn't seem fair for you to blast no2chem about what he chooses to do this week. If he wants to develop his on projects then that is his perogitive. I don't think any of us have given him a large enough donation to keep him dedicated to our interest over his interest. Just my thoughts. I am not trying to flame you, just think some of the comments about the developers and there lack of interest in the community are unfounded.

[electronicrice]

Originally Posted by Ga. Medic

Wow you seem bitter. These guys do this for free ya know. Gotta cut them some slack. I know it has been a "while" since we had an update. I personally don't consider 1-2 months a while when people are not getting paid. Yes I know some people have donated to help there cause. That is still not like getting paid. If they were being paid to put the time into the project and not producing results then yes it would be an issue. If you personally like using DCD's then thats great, but it doesn't seem fair for you to blast no2chem about what he chooses to do this week. If he wants to develop his on projects then that is his perogitive. I don't think any of us have given him a large enough donation to keep him dedicated to our interest over his interest. Just my thoughts. I am not trying to flame you, just think some of the comments about the developers and there lack of interest in the community are unfounded.

While I understand that they do this for free, what I don't understand is the fact that we have so much time in between builds, given the fact that for a long while we were getting steady updates and bug-fixed builds for our phones. I have used both no2chem's ROMs, PPCKitchen and DCD. I have gravitated between all of them and found something I liked in each iteration.

What my problem is is that while DCD continues to focus on the community and produce builds of WM to help make our phone better, faster and bug-free, while giving us the bleeding edge, no2chem, for months, has been focusing more on his own applications both for perceived functionality and as replacements of core windows applications, which are being implemented in future PPCKitchen versions, without the options of removal. This focus is a huge shift from what the kitchen idea was and has taken a considerable amount of time away from producing/porting newer versions of the WM builds.

I'm not bitter; as I said I'm disappointed. One guy at xda has been giving regular updates with newer builds of a program that a team of developers here have taken months to produce, and are still behind. And mind you, they have received A LOT of donations for their work, so while they're not being a paid a salary for it, they're being compensated quite well. If you don't believe that, take a look at PPCKitchen.org and tally the names of users who have donated money, more or less around the $5 range. And that's not even counting the donations just to no2chem himself. If that's not enough to keep interest in providing the community with new rom development at regular intervals then that's disappointing in itself.

With that being said, I find your rebuttal unfounded.

[chevyforlife]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

While I understand that they do this for free, what I don't understand is the fact that we have so much time in between builds, given the fact that for a long while we were getting steady updates and bug-fixed builds for our phones. I have used both no2chem's ROMs, PPCKitchen and DCD. I have gravitated between all of them and found something I liked in each iteration.

What my problem is is that while DCD continues to focus on the community and produce builds of WM to help make our phone better, faster and bug-free, while giving us the bleeding edge, no2chem, for months, has been focusing more on his own applications both for perceived functionality and as replacements of core windows applications, which are being implemented in future PPCKitchen versions, without the options of removal. This focus is a huge shift from what the kitchen idea was and has taken a considerable amount of time away from producing/porting newer versions of the WM builds.

I'm not bitter; as I said I'm disappointed. One guy at xda has been giving regular updates with newer builds of a program that a team of developers here have taken months to produce, and are still behind. And mind you, they have received A LOT of donations for their work, so while they're not being a paid a salary for it, they're being compensated quite well. If you don't believe that, take a look at PPCKitchen.org and tally the names of users who have donated money, more or less around the $5 range. And that's not even counting the donations just to no2chem himself. If that's not enough to keep interest in providing the community with new rom development at regular intervals then that's disappointing in itself.

With that being said, I find your rebuttal unfounded.

my standing exactly.

[gguruusa]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

While I understand that they do this for free, what I don't understand is the fact that we have so much time in between builds, given the fact that for a long while we were getting steady updates and bug-fixed builds for our phones.

Try actually taking the time to fix stuff instead of *****ing about it, and you'll see why it sometimes takes more time than others. We make releases when we feel there is enough changes to warrant a new release. Sometimes that's quickly, sometimes not.

[QUOTE=electronicrice;387333]What my problem is is that while DCD continues to focus on the community and produce builds of WM to help make our phone better, faster and bug-free, while giving us the bleeding edge, no2chem, for months, has been focusing more on his own applications both for perceived functionality and as replacements of core windows applications, which are being implemented in future PPCKitchen versions, without the options of removal.[/qoute]
First, No2Chem can do whatever he wants to do. If you don't like it, to bad. Second, No2Chem's work benefits his roms and many other users. Sorry you'd like him to do something you appreciate better, but making your device more useable doesn't always mean porting a new rom. Third, you are really stretching when you talk about things being implemented in PPCKitchen kitchens without the option of removal (it doesn't happen to any significant extent, and the extent to which it does happen happens just as much w/ any other kitchen, DCD included). Tell me a no2chem app that's built in and why you'd be better off with it removed.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

This focus is a huge shift from what the kitchen idea was and has taken a considerable amount of time away from producing/porting newer versions of the WM builds.

Really? You can't seriously think that bringing No2Chem's apps/roms to the kitchen is not in keeping with PPCKitchen's goals or takes away from the kitchen idea. Furthermore, just because you don't see updates for your device doesn't mean kitchens for other devices haven't been worked on. Titan's aren't the only phones in the world.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

I'm not bitter; as I said I'm disappointed. One guy at xda has been giving regular updates with newer builds of a program that a team of developers here have taken months to produce, and are still behind.

And now you have crossed into insanity. Are you using PPCGeeks_OEM.rar? I bet so. Does DCD maintain some 16 kitchens? No. Does DCD maintain kitchens for 6 different devices? No. Does DCD write software for you to use on your device to make it more useable as No2Chem does? No. Does DCD write tools to improve your rom building experience? No. Does DCD do things like make unlockers (ImCokeMan) or run help rooms for people who have borked their phones? No. Does DCD work on adding support for new devices? No. DCD has done some good work, but it is hardly on the scale of PPCKitchen or even No2chem.

Besides, who said we're behind? Just because we didn't release 20273 doesn't mean we didn't do it or even release some portions of it. Despite your opinion of how much better 20273 is over 20270, your actual testing of similarly configured roms is non-existent. 20273 is not significantly better than 20270. It's certainly not better enough to divert the time it takes to release it from other activities we have going on.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

And mind you, they have received A LOT of donations for their work, so while they're not being a paid a salary for it, they're being compensated quite well. If you don't believe that, take a look at PPCKitchen.org and tally the names of users who have donated money, more or less around the $5 range. And that's not even counting the donations just to no2chem himself. If that's not enough to keep interest in providing the community with new rom development at regular intervals then that's disappointing in itself.

Who said that list was people who donated money? I can assure you it isn't. You'd do better begging on a street corner.

[electronicrice]

Alright cool. Here we go.

First, No2Chem can do whatever he wants to do. If you don't like it, to bad. Second, No2Chem's work benefits his roms and many other users. Sorry you'd like him to do something you appreciate better, but making your device more useable doesn't always mean porting a new rom. Third, you are really stretching when you talk about things being implemented in PPCKitchen kitchens without the option of removal (it doesn't happen to any significant extent, and the extent to which it does happen happens just as much w/ any other kitchen, DCD included). Tell me a no2chem app that's built in and why you'd be better off with it removed.

You want some no2chem apps that aren't necessary to make the phone better? nueUSB, nueLED, nueBattery, etc. Anything that has been implemented into the ROM to replace original Windows components is unecessary and does not NEED to be there. They're just prettier apps, designed to give a LITTLE more control over something that works fine on its own. We don't need someone telling us that their application is for our benefit when that same program is used in dozens of other roms on other devices and they function fine. Besides it's really just a way to get his name out there. Oh, and for the record, if you actually go to re-read some of the threads, you'll notice yourself and colonel giving the finger to users who wondered why they couldn't remove some of no2chem's apps. You buried it in the SYS folders. Not everyone knows how to remove that stuff, and NOT everyone wants it. So I am right there.

I'm not saying no2chem can't do what he wants with his time. I said that you shouldn't expect an update from one of his "nueROMs" for a while because he's more focused on his "applications". That is evidenced by his "preview" builds and lack of any real release or update to a ROM base that other users can implement in their own kicthens, or even to PPCKitchen.

Furthermore, just because you don't see updates for your device doesn't mean kitchens for other devices haven't been worked on. Titan's aren't the only phones in the world.

Duh, I'm well aware of that. I'm talking about THIS phone and the updates for it. I'm not concerned for the other phones. I'm talking about the time span between updates for the TITAN. There have been significant time increases between releases since the original kitchen was released.

And now you have crossed into insanity. Are you using PPCGeeks_OEM.rar? I bet so. Does DCD maintain some 16 kitchens? No. Does DCD maintain kitchens for 6 different devices? No. Does DCD write software for you to use on your device to make it more useable as No2Chem does? No. Does DCD write tools to improve your rom building experience? No. Does DCD do things like make unlockers (ImCokeMan) or run help rooms for people who have borked their phones? No. Does DCD work on adding support for new devices? No. DCD has done some good work, but it is hardly on the scale of PPCKitchen or even No2chem.

Crossed into insanity, eh? You "Kitchen Gods" are so self-righteous it's upsetting. Yes I'm using SOME apps from PPCGeeks_OEM.rar. But guess what? All of the apps I'm using from that RAR are actually taken from an old version that was released around the same time the first apache roms were. And most of them I have updated with downloads I found myself and turned them into OEMs. So your argument there is moot.

I'm not talking about 16 kitchens, I'm talking about the TITAN kitchen. I was also referring to no2chem in this as well. Where were all of these other kitchens when the roms for this phone were being updated and released? Seems like there were plenty of updates here when there were still other phones abound. Also, I don't need DCD to write software for me to make my phone more usable. That's such a stupid argument considering what I've already stated. Everything that comes stock on Windows Mobile works just FINE. We're also not talking about unlockers, chat rooms, etc. You know what my point was.

Besides, who said we're behind? Just because we didn't release 20273 doesn't mean we didn't do it or even release some portions of it. Despite your opinion of how much better 20273 is over 20270, your actual testing of similarly configured roms is non-existent. 20273 is not significantly better than 20270. It's certainly not better enough to divert the time it takes to release it from other activities we have going on.

Considering that I've flashed pratically every rom released and tested with the EXACT same setup of applications and pagepool, I HAVE in fact noticed a difference between all of them. I'm sorry if you think you're so high up that my matter of actually USING the phone doesn't count as testing, sorry, that's my benchmark and that's how I value a rom release.

Who said that list was people who donated money? I can assure you it isn't. You'd do better begging on a street corner.

And last but not least, if that list isn't for people who have donated time and/or money, then you need to change the title of the ticker to something more like "Thank you to all who have used our ROMs" or "Thank you to all who have given us feedback". If it says "Thank you to all who have DONATED..." It really kinda means one thing. Unless of course someone donated their house, car, child or fettucine.

Stop coming in here everytime there's a comment against your work like a whining school girl, getting butt-hurt. You'd do better in prison with a giant named Tiny.

[WorldWide]

Sensitive computer thugs yall all need hugs. Ha ha.

[gguruusa]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Alright cool. Here we go.
You want some no2chem apps that aren't necessary to make the phone better? nueUSB, nueLED, nueBattery, etc. Anything that has been implemented into the ROM to replace original Windows components is unecessary and does not NEED to be there. They're just prettier apps, designed to give a LITTLE more control over something that works fine on its own. We don't need someone telling us that their application is for our benefit when that same program is used in dozens of other roms on other devices and they function fine.

nueLED is standalone. Do you even know what the difference is between the nue version and the original? In most cases the nue version IS the original, just slightly altered. That's why we do a direct replacement. Stuff like nueLED where he actually wrote significant code are standalone, user selectable packages.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Besides it's really just a way to get his name out there.

Is that why we don't mention that they're in there? Good logic.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Oh, and for the record, if you actually go to re-read some of the threads, you'll notice yourself and colonel giving the finger to users who wondered why they couldn't remove some of no2chem's apps. You buried it in the SYS folders. Not everyone knows how to remove that stuff, and NOT everyone wants it. So I am right there.

If you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd realize its like a child saying why can't I have a green pencil when you gave them a yellow pencil. If you have some specific need for the yellow pencil, go get it. The green pencil is superior for the majority of people[/quote]

Originally Posted by electronicrice

I'm not saying no2chem can't do what he wants with his time. I said that you shouldn't expect an update from one of his "nueROMs" for a while because he's more focused on his "applications". That is evidenced by his "preview" builds and lack of any real release or update to a ROM base that other users can implement in their own kicthens, or even to PPCKitchen.

You missed the point. His apps are part of what makes his roms good. Working on the apps is integral to the features of his roms. I couldn't tell you about why he does or doesn't make basekit releases at any given time, but I can tell you making a release is a chore - it's not like "oh, I'll just zip up this directory."

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Duh, I'm well aware of that. I'm talking about THIS phone and the updates for it. I'm not concerned for the other phones. I'm talking about the time span between updates for the TITAN. There have been significant time increases between releases since the original kitchen was released.

Your statement was that DCD is the only one doing anything, and he's just a one man show. I merely pointed out that you have a micro view. Plenty is happening, just not where you are looking.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Crossed into insanity, eh? You "Kitchen Gods" are so self-righteous it's upsetting. Yes I'm using SOME apps from PPCGeeks_OEM.rar. But guess what? All of the apps I'm using from that RAR are actually taken from an old version that was released around the same time the first apache roms were. And most of them I have updated with downloads I found myself and turned them into OEMs. So your argument there is moot.

No, the argument was that lot's of things get updated beyond just the base OS.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

I'm not talking about 16 kitchens, I'm talking about the TITAN kitchen. I was also referring to no2chem in this as well. Where were all of these other kitchens when the roms for this phone were being updated and released? Seems like there were plenty of updates here when there were still other phones abound.

Several new devices have been added to the supported list since introduction of the titan kitchen. Those devices didn't have kitchens before, now they do. Just because the phone existed, doesn't mean it had a kitchen.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Also, I don't need DCD to write software for me to make my phone more usable. That's such a stupid argument considering what I've already stated. Everything that comes stock on Windows Mobile works just FINE. We're also not talking about unlockers, chat rooms, etc. You know what my point was.

Yes, your point was DCD does more than anyone else. It was ignorant. The fact is you DO need other people to write software for your phone, and what comes stock doesn't "work just fine" or you wouldn't be here.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Considering that I've flashed pratically every rom released and tested with the EXACT same setup of applications and pagepool, I HAVE in fact noticed a difference between all of them. I'm sorry if you think you're so high up that my matter of actually USING the phone doesn't count as testing, sorry, that's my benchmark and that's how I value a rom release.

Again, your testing sucks. No one said that DCD doesn't do this that or the other better than anyone else. What was said is that 20270 is not significantly different than 20273. Unless you made a stock 20273 kitchen, I don't know how you'd compare it to 20270.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

And last but not least, if that list isn't for people who have donated time and/or money, then you need to change the title of the ticker to something more like "Thank you to all who have used our ROMs" or "Thank you to all who have given us feedback". If it says "Thank you to all who have DONATED..." It really kinda means one thing. Unless of course someone donated their house, car, child or fettucine.

Hmmm.... maybe some did? No one said what was donated, and no one is going to. You assume it is cash, and I'm telling you you are wrong. The title is accurate, your interpretation is flawed.

Originally Posted by electronicrice

Stop coming in here everytime there's a comment against your work like a whining school girl, getting butt-hurt. You'd do better in prison with a giant named Tiny.

You really are ignorant. You didn't even comment on my work except indirectly in one senetence. Between the two of us, one of us knows more about what work has been done, is being done, and will be done - which was the subject of this thread.

[electronicrice]

Originally Posted by gguruusa

All of your nonsense.

Listen, the point I was trying to get across is that 1) there haven't been updates for a while from here and 2) not everything thinks the way you do, or wants what you want. You have a lot of technical prowess, but you don't know what all users NEED/WANT on their phones.

I'm done with the argument. We're both stubborn, we both have different views. I'm not admitting defeat and I'm sure you aren't either. It's going to be left at that.

G'day.

[superevilllama]

eh... yeah

Well it has been something I have said before. I personally am not putting anyone down. I know no2chem has done some awesome work and everyone including him puts their time in for free, and believe me, I certainly appreciate it. I think what electronicrice is saying, and I agree, is it seems different than what it used to be. There are not as many rom releases any more and it seems that everyone in general is trying to put their own twist on things rather than keep things stock, or at least customizable by the end user. Tweaks and such are put in already as default.

I know it has been brought up before and explained by gguru that before in the wm5 kitchen days for apache, it was only one developer, helmi, working on the roms. Now there are several developers, all who have their own talents and opinons on what they want their own roms to be, and thats ok, especially when they are the ones putting the effort into it. Some people prefer no2chem, some prefer dcd, some prefer official kitchen, and I guess its cool we all have these different options available. I do miss the combined effort that we used to have that seemed to speed up rom release and problem corrections. The changelogs used to be awesome in wm5 apache days. Always posting what was fixed, what needs to be worked on.

I will say dcds latest has been the best for what I need so far. It is quick, no issues period and mostly stock, with his own customizations also being able to be removed with a bit of work.