PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

[Mr. X]

PPCGeeks.com Formal Position On Modifying Telecommunication Identifying Information Associated With Or Contained In A Telecommunications Instrument (ESN cloning):


In accordance with U.S. Public law number 105-172, PPCGeeks.com has decided to maintain its stance on the prohibition of the topic of how to tamper, clone or otherwise modify identifying information associated with a handset or other device used to gain access to a cellular network. An Example is esn cloning, but not limited to just this example.

In may 2002 the FCC retraced its statement on ESN cloning or cellular fraud (section 22.919) because public law number 105-172, the communications act also had section 301 removed because of this law. Both removed sections were considered no longer needed and redundant because of this public law.

According to this law it is a federal crime to "knowingly uses, produces, traffics in, has control or custody of, or possesses hardware or software, knowing it has been configured to insert or modify telecommunication identifying information associated with or contained in a telecommunications instrument so that such instrument may be used to obtain telecommunications service without authorization." This is a broad enough description to pertain to any service a telecommunication companies offers, as well as any hardware or software you used to achieve this is considered illegal and in breach of this law. An example of other services are, internet services like an air card and voice mail, but not limited to these examples.

Without authorization, means any device the carrier did not directly and knowingly assign to your account. Even if you have a valid account and are a paying customer, cloning a device to that account is unauthorized, because the device being authenticated and authorized on the network is the donor device not the device you cloned. An example of this but not limited to this example is cloning a Motorola flip phone to a Samsung Epic smart phone, The Samsung epic would authenticate as a Motorola flip phone, not a Samsung Epic Smart phone. The carrier did not explicitly authorize this smart phone device, and it is accessing the network in an unauthorized and illegal manner.


If a user was unlucky enough to be found breaching this law and proven guilty of the offense, the punishments are; “A first offense is now punishable by 15 years in prison, and a second or subsequent offense carries a possible 20 year sentence. Besides additional fines and penalties, the Act also authorizes the government to seize any and all personal property used or intended to be used in the crime. “


Since PPCGeeks.com has a server located in the U.S. If we were to allow talk of cloning and allow users to guide each other to commit a federal crime, it could be possible for us to come under fire legally, we would be forced by court order, if served, to give up any users' personal information they require. This would not be good for us or you guys. This is not just a matter of causing the carriers to become upset, its a federal crime, and the only thing we can do to protect you guys from this ever happening is to not allow it to be discussed on our site.


If it could be another way we would like nothing more then to allow the users to have the freedom to speak on this topic and develop new hacking methods and contribute to the scene in this form, but its something we do not wish to allow because of the reasons stated above.


While I write this I will also address our stance on tethering. PPCGeeks.com allows the talk of tethering, how to methods and guides on the matter. We do not frown upon this topic and I will state why below.


Tethering in some cases is a breach of your terms of service with your carrier, on the other had some carriers (all Canadian carriers) allow tethering, but do not always provide the means to do so built into the device. This is where the PPCGeeks.com community, among others, comes in and takes the users who are not in the “know” about tethering and guides them by the hand to the “know”. Any legal issues that may come from your carrier, if you were to tether, are strictly a civil suit. They would be pursuing you directly, and therefore would be less likely to do so through PPCGeeks.com. They would sue you for damages, but in most cases, if not all cases, I have researched. They do one of 2 things, terminate your service and charge you a hefty early termination fee, or they charge you for tethering based on the per-use fees that are quite high. Going to federal prison for 15-20 years is not one of the punishments carriers hand out for tethering.


What it boils down to, is although the legalities of offering information for educational purposes only, with a disclaimer as such are foggy, and it is possible we could put a disclaimer on it and allow it. PPCGeeks.com in no way, shape, or form ever wants to be tied up in any legal issue pertaining to our users, nor do we ever want to be forced to give out any user information to help the proses of legal punishment to our users. And lastly we do not want on our minds that we were partial aid, be it forced or not, to one of our users facing a life changing criminal record or sentence.


This is the the reason why we allow and deny what we do as a topic of discussion on our forums.


Sorry if you disagree, and hopefully you all understand where we come from as the staff and the site in whole.




Mr. X
PPCGeeks Forum Administrator

[smileyface22]

Wirelessly posted (TP2: Opera/9.80 (Windows Mobile; WCE; Opera Mobi/WMD-50433; U; en) Presto/2.4.13 Version/10.00)

[Tinkerbell]

Thank you for the update on the stance of PPCGeeks!

[schettj]

So, you're saying it's a WIDE stance?

Urban Dictionary: Wide Stance

[guitardoc64]

Thanks for the clarification X. Thanks for the laugh Schettj!!!

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by schettj

So, you're saying it's a WIDE stance?

Urban Dictionary: Wide Stance

this made me LOL HARDDDD


+Rep on that one lol

[psycho_maniac]

Shouldn't it be common sense not to talk about this cloning. I mean every other forum you go to says no. why should this site be any different? call vzw and ask them if they will help you clone your phone's esn LOLOLOL

[masetas]

Originally Posted by schettj

So, you're saying it's a WIDE stance?

Urban Dictionary: Wide Stance

LMAO!!!!!!!


X i get the stance of ppc on this issue but then do we have permission to help someone who has a phone like that, (regardless of him hacking or purchasing the phone that way) and ask for help on how to get mms or data etc... to work on his phone can we reply with instructions on how to gain mms, or data access since were not helping with the cloning itself?. I ask cause i dont want to get warned or banned for helping someone

[Mr. X]

Originally Posted by masetas

LMAO!!!!!!!


X i get the stance of ppc on this issue but then do we have permission to help someone who has a phone like that, (regardless of him hacking or purchasing the phone that way) and ask for help on how to get mms or data etc... to work on his phone can we reply with instructions on how to gain mms, or data access since were not helping with the cloning itself?. I ask cause i dont want to get warned or banned for helping someone

What people do to there phones away from here and in private is of no concern to us. as long as no one is being guided how to break the law here we're good.

[jamice4u]

Originally Posted by schettj

So, you're saying it's a WIDE stance?

Urban Dictionary: Wide Stance

My stance on this matter is narrow I agree with PPC geeks stance on this matter 100%. I be damned if I take a wide stance on this matter or any matter!!!! Why ruin somebody's life. 15 years in prison is not good for any man. Those who have a wide stance on this matter could potentially be force to take that same stance in prison for a long time.

Good looking out PPC Geeks!!! If somebody asks for esn tips I will refer them to this post, I did not know that the consequences were this severer. But I respect those who choose to take the wide stance on this matter because we are all entitled to our own opinion and lifestyle but, for me I will always take the narrow stance.

P.S. You learn something new everyday!!!