PPCGeeks Forums HTC Arrive HTC HD2 HTC Thunderbolt HTC Touch Pro 2 HTC Evo 4G HTC Evo 3D Samsung Galaxy S II Motorola Droid X Apple iPhone Blackberry
Go Back   PPCGeeks > Site Information > Site News & Announcements

Notices



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2011, 02:48 PM
Mr. X's Avatar
Retired Staff
Offline
Pocket PC: HTC Desire
Carrier: Telus
Location: Ontario, Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,226
Reputation: 27769
Mr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation level
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

PPCGeeks.com Formal Position On Modifying Telecommunication Identifying Information Associated With Or Contained In A Telecommunications Instrument (ESN cloning):


In accordance with U.S. Public law number 105-172, PPCGeeks.com has decided to maintain its stance on the prohibition of the topic of how to tamper, clone or otherwise modify identifying information associated with a handset or other device used to gain access to a cellular network. An Example is esn cloning, but not limited to just this example.

In may 2002 the FCC retraced its statement on ESN cloning or cellular fraud (section 22.919) because public law number 105-172, the communications act also had section 301 removed because of this law. Both removed sections were considered no longer needed and redundant because of this public law.

According to this law it is a federal crime to "knowingly uses, produces, traffics in, has control or custody of, or possesses hardware or software, knowing it has been configured to insert or modify telecommunication identifying information associated with or contained in a telecommunications instrument so that such instrument may be used to obtain telecommunications service without authorization." This is a broad enough description to pertain to any service a telecommunication companies offers, as well as any hardware or software you used to achieve this is considered illegal and in breach of this law. An example of other services are, internet services like an air card and voice mail, but not limited to these examples.

Without authorization, means any device the carrier did not directly and knowingly assign to your account. Even if you have a valid account and are a paying customer, cloning a device to that account is unauthorized, because the device being authenticated and authorized on the network is the donor device not the device you cloned. An example of this but not limited to this example is cloning a Motorola flip phone to a Samsung Epic smart phone, The Samsung epic would authenticate as a Motorola flip phone, not a Samsung Epic Smart phone. The carrier did not explicitly authorize this smart phone device, and it is accessing the network in an unauthorized and illegal manner.


If a user was unlucky enough to be found breaching this law and proven guilty of the offense, the punishments are; “A first offense is now punishable by 15 years in prison, and a second or subsequent offense carries a possible 20 year sentence. Besides additional fines and penalties, the Act also authorizes the government to seize any and all personal property used or intended to be used in the crime. “


Since PPCGeeks.com has a server located in the U.S. If we were to allow talk of cloning and allow users to guide each other to commit a federal crime, it could be possible for us to come under fire legally, we would be forced by court order, if served, to give up any users' personal information they require. This would not be good for us or you guys. This is not just a matter of causing the carriers to become upset, its a federal crime, and the only thing we can do to protect you guys from this ever happening is to not allow it to be discussed on our site.


If it could be another way we would like nothing more then to allow the users to have the freedom to speak on this topic and develop new hacking methods and contribute to the scene in this form, but its something we do not wish to allow because of the reasons stated above.


While I write this I will also address our stance on tethering. PPCGeeks.com allows the talk of tethering, how to methods and guides on the matter. We do not frown upon this topic and I will state why below.


Tethering in some cases is a breach of your terms of service with your carrier, on the other had some carriers (all Canadian carriers) allow tethering, but do not always provide the means to do so built into the device. This is where the PPCGeeks.com community, among others, comes in and takes the users who are not in the “know” about tethering and guides them by the hand to the “know”. Any legal issues that may come from your carrier, if you were to tether, are strictly a civil suit. They would be pursuing you directly, and therefore would be less likely to do so through PPCGeeks.com. They would sue you for damages, but in most cases, if not all cases, I have researched. They do one of 2 things, terminate your service and charge you a hefty early termination fee, or they charge you for tethering based on the per-use fees that are quite high. Going to federal prison for 15-20 years is not one of the punishments carriers hand out for tethering.


What it boils down to, is although the legalities of offering information for educational purposes only, with a disclaimer as such are foggy, and it is possible we could put a disclaimer on it and allow it. PPCGeeks.com in no way, shape, or form ever wants to be tied up in any legal issue pertaining to our users, nor do we ever want to be forced to give out any user information to help the proses of legal punishment to our users. And lastly we do not want on our minds that we were partial aid, be it forced or not, to one of our users facing a life changing criminal record or sentence.


This is the the reason why we allow and deny what we do as a topic of discussion on our forums.


Sorry if you disagree, and hopefully you all understand where we come from as the staff and the site in whole.




Mr. X
PPCGeeks Forum Administrator
__________________

If I have helped you, you like my work, want to get me a coffee or you feel like you wish to help me get my next device.

feel free to its appreciated, but not required!

Thanks To everyone who donated!
Reply With Quote
This post has been thanked 13 times.
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2011, 04:54 PM
smileyface22's Avatar
Regular 'Geeker
Offline
Pocket PC: HTC Arrive
Carrier: Sprint
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 299
Reputation: 220
smileyface22 is keeping up the good worksmileyface22 is keeping up the good worksmileyface22 is keeping up the good work
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Wirelessly posted (TP2: Opera/9.80 (Windows Mobile; WCE; Opera Mobi/WMD-50433; U; en) Presto/2.4.13 Version/10.00)

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2011, 05:16 PM
Tinkerbell's Avatar
Sprinkler of Pixie Dust
Offline
Pocket PC: Tin Can ^^)
Carrier: Verizon
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,228
Reputation: 13345
Tinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation levelTinkerbell can't get a higher reputation level
Mentioned: 75 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Re: PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

Thank you for the update on the stance of PPCGeeks!
__________________
PPCG Development Team Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ


Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2011, 09:38 PM
schettj's Avatar
morsus mihi
Offline
Pocket PC: iPhone 4
Carrier: AT&T
Location: Not from around these parts
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,017
Reputation: 3616
schettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIPschettj is still contributing even after becoming a VIP
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Re: PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

So, you're saying it's a WIDE stance?

Urban Dictionary: Wide Stance
__________________
Reply With Quote
This post has been thanked 6 times.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2011, 10:09 PM
guitardoc64's Avatar
CBM Ultrasonic Specialist
Offline
Pocket PC: Samsung Galaxy S4 (Sprint)
Carrier: PPCGeeks-I just pay Sprint for the phone part
Location: Lake Charles, LA
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,276
Reputation: 3153
guitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIPguitardoc64 is still contributing even after becoming a VIP
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to guitardoc64 Send a message via Yahoo to guitardoc64
Re: PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

Thanks for the clarification X. Thanks for the laugh Schettj!!!
__________________
Former Windows Mobile enthusiast and developer, now a modder working on Android. I still have my PPC 6700 and HTC Touch, but I'm rocking a Nexus 6
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-17-2011, 11:39 PM
Mr. X's Avatar
Retired Staff
Offline
Pocket PC: HTC Desire
Carrier: Telus
Threadstarter
Location: Ontario, Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,226
Reputation: 27769
Mr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation level
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Re: PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

Quote:
Originally Posted by schettj View Post
So, you're saying it's a WIDE stance?

Urban Dictionary: Wide Stance
this made me LOL HARDDDD


+Rep on that one lol
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2011, 11:11 AM
psycho_maniac's Avatar
Super Senior VIP Member
Offline
Pocket PC: Nexus 6p
Carrier: Att StraightTalk
Location: Wi,USA
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,027
Reputation: 3882
psycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIPpsycho_maniac is still contributing even after becoming a VIP
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Send a message via MSN to psycho_maniac Send a message via Skype™ to psycho_maniac
Re: PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

Shouldn't it be common sense not to talk about this cloning. I mean every other forum you go to says no. why should this site be any different? call vzw and ask them if they will help you clone your phone's esn LOLOLOL
__________________
Phone: Nexus 6p | Carrier: StraightTalk Att
Kernel: Stock | ROM: Stock Oreo
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-19-2011, 05:09 PM
masetas's Avatar
VIP MVP
Offline
Pocket PC: TP Dos/OG Epic/Touch
Carrier: Sprint
Location: Sur CALI
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,232
Reputation: 765
masetas knows their stuffmasetas knows their stuffmasetas knows their stuffmasetas knows their stuffmasetas knows their stuffmasetas knows their stuffmasetas knows their stuff
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Re: PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

Quote:
Originally Posted by schettj View Post
So, you're saying it's a WIDE stance?

Urban Dictionary: Wide Stance
LMAO!!!!!!!


X i get the stance of ppc on this issue but then do we have permission to help someone who has a phone like that, (regardless of him hacking or purchasing the phone that way) and ask for help on how to get mms or data etc... to work on his phone can we reply with instructions on how to gain mms, or data access since were not helping with the cloning itself?. I ask cause i dont want to get warned or banned for helping someone
__________________
IF I helped feel free to hit the thanks button

Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2011, 11:32 AM
Mr. X's Avatar
Retired Staff
Offline
Pocket PC: HTC Desire
Carrier: Telus
Threadstarter
Location: Ontario, Canada
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 7,226
Reputation: 27769
Mr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation levelMr. X can't get a higher reputation level
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Re: PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

Quote:
Originally Posted by masetas View Post
LMAO!!!!!!!


X i get the stance of ppc on this issue but then do we have permission to help someone who has a phone like that, (regardless of him hacking or purchasing the phone that way) and ask for help on how to get mms or data etc... to work on his phone can we reply with instructions on how to gain mms, or data access since were not helping with the cloning itself?. I ask cause i dont want to get warned or banned for helping someone
What people do to there phones away from here and in private is of no concern to us. as long as no one is being guided how to break the law here we're good.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-20-2011, 02:20 PM
jamice4u's Avatar
Regular 'Geeker
Offline
Pocket PC: Samsung Epic with Cyanogenmod 7
Carrier: Sprint
Location: Daly City California
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 404
Reputation: 1170
jamice4u is halfway to VIP status based on repjamice4u is halfway to VIP status based on repjamice4u is halfway to VIP status based on repjamice4u is halfway to VIP status based on repjamice4u is halfway to VIP status based on repjamice4u is halfway to VIP status based on repjamice4u is halfway to VIP status based on repjamice4u is halfway to VIP status based on repjamice4u is halfway to VIP status based on rep
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Re: PPCGeeks Stance on ESN Cloning Or Anything Of The Likes

Quote:
Originally Posted by schettj View Post
So, you're saying it's a WIDE stance?

Urban Dictionary: Wide Stance
My stance on this matter is narrow I agree with PPC geeks stance on this matter 100%. I be damned if I take a wide stance on this matter or any matter!!!! Why ruin somebody's life. 15 years in prison is not good for any man. Those who have a wide stance on this matter could potentially be force to take that same stance in prison for a long time.

Good looking out PPC Geeks!!! If somebody asks for esn tips I will refer them to this post, I did not know that the consequences were this severer. But I respect those who choose to take the wide stance on this matter because we are all entitled to our own opinion and lifestyle but, for me I will always take the narrow stance.

P.S. You learn something new everyday!!!
__________________
4G Hotspot tethering with Samsung Epic just start 3G first and then start up 4G otherwise your phone will restart. wifi_tether_v3_0-pre10.apk wifi_tether_v3_0-pre12.apk

Please don't forget to thank me.

Last edited by jamice4u; 05-20-2011 at 11:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  PPCGeeks > Site Information > Site News & Announcements

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
©2012 - PPCGeeks.com