Just had my vogue stolen, but it was a ESN copy from my 6700

[buddhatikkigod]

Hey guys... well i backed out of an Asurion claim almost a month ago when i found out my 6700 was going to be replaced by another 6700. I have my Verizon 6700 sitting in a box, the keyboard isnt work... i snapped it while it was open but for the past year ive been using a Sprint Vogue/6900 that i copied my 6700's ESN onto. Its been good to me, ive got a little solid case for itand have beaten the crap out of it.

But last night a frackin thief went through my car in my driveway! What a feeling to know some theif was skulking around my house. The phone is pretty much worthless to the theif as it cant be hooked up to the sprint service with my verizon ESN and the original ESN which might still be recoverable (if you really know what youre doing with these phones) was stolen when the original owner listed it on ebay along with the phone. (he had to relist it with the titlte "Sprint 6900 bad ESN" and igot it very cheap. So the phone is not worth any money and this theif just basically hurt me for nothing.


Anyways when i do the *** claim, im not sure how to proceed. I have the original box and all accessories for my Sprint 6900 but Verizon never knew i had it.. i could call the police and file a claim to show im serious about owning a 6900 but i dont think Assurion will honor it. So i have to Assurion a semi-working 6700. I really hope i get a newer model phone but who knows.

[avi11223]

hot do you copy an esn number to a phone i have 2 htc touch one has a bad esn but works good and one has a clean esn but not working well

[MoonZ*BabysH]

UMMMMM.


Originally Posted by mindfrost82
09/02/08 - ZERO-TOLERANCE REMINDERS

This is a reminder that this website has a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy on posting warez, asking for warez, or anything related to warez.

Since ESN cloning is also illegal, we also have a ZERO-TOLERANCE policy on posting cloning instructions, asking about cloning, or anything related to cloning.

You WILL be banned if you post anything about warez (keygens, serials, cracks, anything about getting paid software for free) or ESN cloning.

[buddhatikkigod]

Really? im pretty sure here is where i originally got instructions on copying my ESN. I wont post instructions on how to.. but is it really illegal to erase or change a serial number on a unit and just possess it?

Just like if i had a laptop with a bad motherboard. The motherboard is where the entire laptops serial number is stored. So wouldnt it be illegal to buy a replacement motherboard on ebay taken from a parted unit and put it in my laptop? Not even trying to call up Dell and it serviced but just possessing it? I would only think its illegal if you try to get the unit serviced as if its a new unit.

Same with a pocket pc phone.Say i have a bad board on my phone but a good touch screen a model X330 phone. I buy an X330 on ebay with a broken touch screen and swap the parts. Would it be illegal to have my new phone that has a case that says a different serial number then what the motherboard says?
Seems like a grey area at most. Ive seen phones on EBAY that are listed as BAD ESN phones. Sometimes a seller posts the ESN number with the phone and some theif copies the good ESN and puts it on a stolen phone. thats illegal for sure. But then the seller has a phone he cant sell normally so he re-lists and puts that it has a BAD ESN. Then someone like me buys it and copies the ESN from my old phone onto that one to get it working on my network. That seems wrong and i know my carrier would be upset and cancel me, but if i never do anything with it or try to take advantage of it is it actually illegal?

Is that now a policy because its written that this illegal or is PPCgeeks just playing it safe?

Also im sorry if it seems like im complaining trying to stir trouble, im really just curious. As this site is a great resource for our pocket pc phones and im just wondering why this great tool of modifying our ESN to get newer phones working isnt allowed. Seems almost as bad as PPC Kitchen which lets us put a newer copy of Windows Mobile on our phones, sometimes new phones main feature is updated software that we get for free here.

[PocketPcUser]

Originally Posted by buddhatikkigod

Really? im pretty sure here is where i originally got instructions on copying my ESN. I wont post instructions on how to.. but is it really illegal to erase or change a serial number on a unit and just possess it?

Just like if i had a laptop with a bad motherboard. The motherboard is where the entire laptops serial number is stored. So wouldnt it be illegal to buy a replacement motherboard on ebay taken from a parted unit and put it in my laptop? Not even trying to call up Dell and it serviced but just possessing it? I would only think its illegal if you try to get the unit serviced as if its a new unit.

Same with a pocket pc phone.Say i have a bad board on my phone but a good touch screen a model X330 phone. I buy an X330 on ebay with a broken touch screen and swap the parts. Would it be illegal to have my new phone that has a case that says a different serial number then what the motherboard says?
Seems like a grey area at most. Ive seen phones on EBAY that are listed as BAD ESN phones. Sometimes a seller posts the ESN number with the phone and some theif copies the good ESN and puts it on a stolen phone. thats illegal for sure. But then the seller has a phone he cant sell normally so he re-lists and puts that it has a BAD ESN. Then someone like me buys it and copies the ESN from my old phone onto that one to get it working on my network. That seems wrong and i know my carrier would be upset and cancel me, but if i never do anything with it or try to take advantage of it is it actually illegal?

Is that now a policy because its written that this illegal or is PPCgeeks just playing it safe?

Also im sorry if it seems like im complaining trying to stir trouble, im really just curious. As this site is a great resource for our pocket pc phones and im just wondering why this great tool of modifying our ESN to get newer phones working isn't allowed. Seems almost as bad as PPC Kitchen which lets us put a newer copy of Windows Mobile on our phones, sometimes new phones main feature is updated software that we get for free here.

Hello,
Here is my 2cents. I work in the IT Industry, and know a good deal about DMI'ing and such. Essentially, this is what you are referring to. When you purchase a new MB from a MFG, you are then authorized to use a DMI Utility to "write" information to your MB using this utility. It is in this case that you are authorized to do so. This is probably the same with ESN, as only Carriers and MFG are authorized to alter/utilize and change any of the said information. So, I would say that ESN is not that grey as you may think, since even people who work at the registers at your local Sprint Store may or may not even be authorized themselves.
Take what I say above with as much salt as needed.

[buddhatikkigod]

So wouldnt it be just as bad as putting a newer copy of Windows Mobile on our phones?

[detroit_doug]

Originally Posted by buddhatikkigod

So wouldnt it be just as bad as putting a newer copy of Windows Mobile on our phones?

While copying over or flashing custom ROMs to your phone is one thing - its NOT illegal to do so it just will void out your warranty is all

What is illegal is the "cloning" of an ESN as that is how less than reputable people will steal cell service from unsuspecting people eating your minutes and the like without you even knowing it until its too late

What you do is up to you - what you do when an OP says not to is a whole different story here on this site LOL

Detroit Doug

[buddhatikkigod]

oh i know, im not trying to disobey him. Im not giving out info im just wondering. But im pretty sure through this site and another is where i got all the info to copy my esn



sorry the link i just posted was an article on cloning but it also had info on how to so heres the part o the article i was interested in:

CLONING CELLULAR TELEPHONES IN GENERAL There has been much written about the legality of cloning one cellular phone to another. There is also much confusion as to whether or not a person who "clones" a phone is actually breaking the law. And just what is cloning? Cloning is the act of making one cellular phone "act the same" as another. This is accomplished by copying the identity and phone number of one phone and inserting it into another. The phones do NOT have to be the same model or even the same brand. The second phone is now for all purposes the same as the first. It will ring if one when the original phones rings. It will cause any charges incurred, to be billed on the original phone's monthly billing statement. Herein lies the problem. By stealing somebody else's mobile number (MIN) and Electronic Serial Number (ESN), a person can "clone" a cellular phone and then make calls which are charged unlawfully to another. This is clearly illegal. Its called fraud. What however, if the person who owns the original phone also owns and uses the clone? Then there is NO theft of service; no crime. No fraud. The second phone becomes an 'extension' so to speak. Why would anybody want an extension? Look in you own home for the answer. Cellular phone users generally use the cellphone to expand their communications capabilities. When in a car, a more powerful, permanently installed unit can be used. When departing the car and say, going up an elevator to work, a smaller, less powerful pocket model can be used. Putting both on the same number makes sense. Who wants to have several numbers? How many phones can you talk on at the same time?

Why then all the concern about people using a cloned phone? First, the media has lumped "cloned phones" into the "it's illegal category", without knowing "that of which they speak". All cloned cellphones are NOT used illegally. But, hey, you knew that. The real situation is that the phones are typically given away for free to entice buyers. No money to be made here. Money is made by selling you service for the phones. Want a second phone. Get a second service and pay twice. Ever see anybody use two phones at once? No. How about a person watching two TVs at the same time? Nope. This is an old argument the should have been settled years ago when the Bell Telephone Company was told to let customers buy their own phone and NOT have to pay for extensions. Cable TV companies tried and got away with for years charging families twice for two cable services to have two separate TVs on one cable line. One for the kids in the TV room, and one for the adults in the Living room.


The reason phone companies can get away with saying cloning is illegal, is that there exists a law which prevents tampering, for fraudulent purposes, with the ESN of a cellular phone. The law is so poorly written the in its first incarnation, legitimate technicians were "guilty of a crime" just for servicing the things. But no technician has ever been arrested for service work, even though the law say they are "committing a crime". Click here. The law has since been updated. Interesting enough, some cellular companies are now starting (11-4-199 to offer cloning as part of their service package(s).


Check with your local cellular providers to see if they offer these services in your area. If they say no, ask them if they know who will. It all boils down to this, "Who has their hands" in your wallet or pocket book. You, or the phone company. You make the decision.

[buddhatikkigod]

i agree, im just wondering if it was truly illegal or not. I guess i answered my own question by finding it on google. But its strange it used to be allowed. I guess it was allowed and it helped some people then it came ot the mods attention that a few people might be stealing phones and using this as a resource to copy good ESN's onto those phones. Oh well... just wondering.

But as to what pocket pc user said, wouldnt using PPC kitchen and putting a newer OS on would be a violation of your contract.

[detroit_doug]

Originally Posted by buddhatikkigod

i agree, im just wondering if it was truly illegal or not. I guess i answered my own question by finding it on google. But its strange it used to be allowed. I guess it was allowed and it helped some people then it came ot the mods attention that a few people might be stealing phones and using this as a resource to copy good ESN's onto those phones. Oh well... just wondering.

But as to what pocket pc user said, wouldnt using PPC kitchen and putting a newer OS on would be a violation of your contract.

On a literal sense, yes and no - definitely a void of any warranty to be sure
on more detail (excluding the warranty issue)
In regards to what your installing, say its a port of TF3D utilized on the TP and Diamond, it may or may not depending on YOUR contract with YOUR carrier - different carriers, different rules and regulations and you need to read what you signed to know for sure
This aside, I know it is also up to the tech involved if and how they deal with it, the Sprint techs I consider useful and will only deal with enjoy Custom ROMs as well and have no issue with it, on the other hand a lazy or uninformed one will threaten with a cancellation due to a breach of contract (usually just to find out how little their input carries later though with corporate LOL) but will make them feel important at the time (and yes it has been reported to happen and it did just the other week for me with an IDIOT tech in Atlanta, GA at a Sprint store that couldnt tell the difference in the cable I needed for my phone to PC connection VS a wall charger)

Now if you install a custom ROM with WinMO 6.5 for instance, the issue isnt with your carrier nearly as much as it is rather with Microsoft as it is still Intellectual Property of M$ and not the manufacture or carrier its leased to and they (M$) has indeed came down on some threads of some sites in regards to WinMO 6.5 but then just gave up shortly afterwards and havent been heard from since regarding it that I know of

But for one hopefully last time, infractions of a TOS or contract by using a custom ROM or modifying a WinMO OS to suit your desire through use of a kitchen is NOT illegal and NOT theft nor is it related to those activities nearly as much as cloning and ESN swapping can and in commonly used for wheras 99.9% of people dropping a custom ROM on a phone is doing so for speed, reliability and a variety of tech geeky goodness resulting in stained drawers and hardened nipples in the attempt to impress their equally techno-geekilicious friends as well LOL as kitchens and custom ROMs have NOT been spoken of in relation to a specific law (at least in the USA) as ESN Swapping/Cloning as been and thus deemed an illegal act

Detroit Doug