Graphics Performance issues?

[esqueue]

Originally Posted by micro254

this is a business phone ... intended for business use. not playing games, if you wanna play games get that icrap and join the kids that are running around with one because it plays cool games ..... again this is only my opinion .

im gonna gt back to work now

Now that I don't agree on. This phone has way too many glitches ATM to be a great business phone. Every time I slide out my keyboard I am pissed by it launching either my phone or touchflo app. Everytime I tilt my phone in Opera it changes the screen position and exits the program. I knew that the phone comes with issues before buying it so I am just waiting for an update but I think that WM devices aren't stable enough to be called business devices. The only WM devices that I have used so far are the Mogul and TP so my opinions are based on that.

[dr g]

Originally Posted by SprintTouch08

My guess is they were more concerned with a speedy overall device and using 3d for TouchFlo than video playback or gaming since its a business device. Youre getting much better and speedier overall usage for a little compromise to gaming and video which their product wast geared to nor ever promoted or promised as.

The same processes that drive TouchFlo drive all graphics on the device. Improved drivers would improve touchFlo as well. It's more a situation of "good enough" not "make one part extra good to the detriment of others".

[SergioNet]

Ok, some of you comes with different excuses.

Originally Posted by aceracer24

You're on Sprint, you have 30 days to try and buy, sounds like you should return it if it's not living up to your expectations. You didn't get duped by HTC or Sprint. I don't have much else to say on the subject. I realize some people are upset but the fact remains, regardless of whats under the hood, the phone was never advertised as a multimedia device. You got what you paid for. Trying to compare it to other mobile phones isn't going to fix what you think is broken.

And what about the rest of us, which don't have an option to return it within x days?

Yes, true. HTC Touch Pro was not advertised as a multimedia device, but it is.
Let's talk about advertisements, what about HTC HD? That's advertised as business device too, huh? The slogan (available on their site) for HD: "See more. Feel more. Experience more. Entertainment on the go, in your hand."
I translate it to "See more frames. Feel more lag. Experience more frustates. Entertainment on the go, in your hand, without HD of course."
Yes, HD is based on the same chipset, Qualcomm MSM7201A. So the poor graphics experience is available in the HD too. (read on xda-developers about video experience, it's far away perfection, see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_6j5XsWhLo ) Now you cannot contradict me. And it's advertised as... a multimedia device! surprise! WM advertised as a multimedia device.

Now coming back to Touch Pro. If it's only for business purposes, why the hack they included TouchFlo 3D with Pictures and video, Music, Teeter, etc?

Plus as a business device, simply it isn't that powerful (with included applications). Just try to view a PowerPoint presentation with Office Mobile. Is the slide navigation instant or do you have to wait some time? Grr.. Try to open a (new) document with Word Mobile. Why do I have to wait so much time? And examples can go on..
Now try to use the phone in landscape mode. Ouups it has "vsync" (redraw) issue while dragging, scrolling, opening menus, etc etc. I guess it doesn't bother you that while checking a web page for "business propose"? Samsung Omnia doesn't have this issue.

Graphics is needed in applications too (eg: TomTom, Igo, etc).

GPS navigation is not very good because the 2-3 seconds lag (delay).

What does annoy us as is the fact that HTC have made a regress in terms of performance by choosing Qualcomm for their CPUs. Why do the Qualcomm CPU-enabled devices perform so.. We don't know, some are saying because it lacks FPU (float point unit), some because poor drivers implementation, others because simply qualcomm chipsets have poor performance.

Don't know if you are fan of emulators, but I am. And I was so disapointed to see how the games runs, I expected to run perfectly on TP hardware (I mean.. there are 528Mhz!). Come on.. cannot play perfectly smooth (with sound) SNES, SEGA ROMS? That's not normal.

As already stated in many different places, Dell Axim x51v, which was launched in 2005, using 2004 year CPU-GPU chipset is way better in terms of graphics performance. Is this normal? TP has hardware acceleration too. Again, if it was just for business means why they included such feature?

See the article, see the comparison of DragonBall game.
Is it normal that a device with OMAP 850 180Mhz is capable of smooth playing and a device with Qualcomm 528Mhz provide a sluggish experience?
And that's just an example.

Please, open your eyes.

As for comments like "if you knew that previous devices such as tytn ii had same issues, why did you chosed touch pro?"
That's why:
- I was thinking that after the tytn ii debates (see http://www.htcclassaction.org/ ), HTC realised that costumers were dissapointed about the graphics performance and actually will try to improve their next products. I thought that HTC learned from its mistakes.. Anyway,, unfortunately, as we can see, this didn't happent.
- HTC said "HTC will utilize hardware video acceleration like the ATI Imageon in many upcoming products. Our users have made it clear that they expect our products to offer an improved visual experience, and we have included this feedback into planning and development of future products.". If with "visual experience" they reffer just only to Manilla3D (Touch Flo 3D), it's sad.. The upcoming products are Diamond, Touch Pro & HD, as you probably thought. Anyway, by reading this I was thinking, man, HTC has realized that costumers want decent performance and they've switched to a better Qualcomm processor + hardware acceleration. But.. you can see the result
- I've read many many topics over Internet but no one, at that time, talked about general gaming experience on Touch Pro and other issues (such as vsync issue in Landscape mode).

I personally use the Touch Pro for: internet browsing, music player, sometimes radio fm, alarm, appointments, sometimes Teeter, etc. I wish I could use it also for playing emu games, but.. it ruins the game experience.

Cons of touch pro: graphics, poor earpiece/speakerphone quality, very low volume IMO (I've tried different patches, volume is increased but distortions appears), gps delay, music breaks (a small break on an interval, this issue is much discussed on xda-developers on Diamond forum), d-pad construction, sometime touch pro is sluggish. However, I just wanted to point that Touch Pro is far away from perfection. If HTC at least fix the software related problems ..

Also, replies such as "you should get a iphone if you want entertainment" I found them .. inadequate. What's the problem if I want also to run games on Windows Mobile? It's like on the PC, i have a powerful CPU & decent graphic card for all tasks, if it's office, if it's browsing, if it's developing.. from time to time I want to try a game.
So please open you mind before comming with all kind of excuses, reasons..

[BigDiesel07]

You make some great points Sergio.. That Axim has an Intel chipset.. Not a Qualcomm, so it seems to work... I know that the Carrier's can choose A la Carte for what they want on the chipset so HTC and Qualcomm are not the only one's to take full responsibility... The drivers and and any hardware related issues are their fault however.. I know this is moot, but we could have a great video player in the Touch Pro, but I bet the device would suffer from even worse battery life..

Designing a device like this is balancing a lot of compromises.. Want great graphics? Poor battery life and excess heat... Want GPS, Wi-Fi, BT, etc.? Expect to pay $700- $800 for a phone that is a massive brick..

I understood when I bought this device it was not great at anything, but only satisfactory to good in several things... I accept that.. It is not a PSP, so gaming is limited.. I accept that.. It is not an iPod or Zune, so video playback will be par to sub-par. I accept that.. It is not a dedicated GPS unit, so there might be GPS lag or poor lock-on.. I accept that.. It is not a brick, so it might be hard to break windows with.. I accept that..

Will the software flaws currently present in the Touch Pro go away with ROM and Radio updates? I do not know.. I look at the history of the Mogul and the many ROM and Radio updates it recieved.. It even got GPS activated by the 3.35 Radio update..

Is it fair to judge this phone against a Zune or iPod in video playback? No.. But is it fair to compare it to devices currently out and devices that are 3 to 4 years old? Yes, I think so..

Thank you all who have posted comments in this thread and/or have voted in this poll...

[chronster]

So in the end, who here thinks we'll ever see these drivers?

Would better drivers improve the touch screen response?

[BigDiesel07]

Originally Posted by chronster

So in the end, who here thinks we'll ever see these drivers?

Would better drivers improve the touch screen response?

I believe so.. You can also use this advice to increase your screen's sensitivity..

[SergioNet]

Originally Posted by BigDiesel07

You make some great points Sergio.. That Axim has an Intel chipset.. Not a Qualcomm, so it seems to work... I know that the Carrier's can choose A la Carte for what they want on the chipset so HTC and Qualcomm are not the only one's to take full responsibility... The drivers and and any hardware related issues are their fault however.. I know this is moot, but we could have a great video player in the Touch Pro, but I bet the device would suffer from even worse battery life..

Designing a device like this is balancing a lot of compromises.. Want great graphics? Poor battery life and excess heat... Want GPS, Wi-Fi, BT, etc.? Expect to pay $700- $800 for a phone that is a massive brick..

Hey, thanks.

I know that's an Intel Xscale. I wanted to bring to light that a CPU from year 2008 is worse than one from year 2005. I mean, 3 years gone, in general the technology evolve, better performance in smaller chipsets, heat optimization, etc etc. I've expected much more power from this Qualcomm chipset, especially after so many past complains from HTC TyTN II owners (and other devices that used the same CPU) and market competition (Samsung, Marvell, FreeScale, Texas Instruments).

I don't want PSP graphics performance, I just want decent graphic performance, that should be capable right out the box. What you can see here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-F-8Saxseg it's just so..outstanding.

We cannot accept all the mediocre things. Don't forget that touch pro is expensive, so it's our right to have great expectations.. We paid for every component in the device, so it should work at least resonable.

BTW,GPS was ok in their previous devices. However, this may be fixable with improved drivers/radio update.

But is it fair to compare it to devices currently out and devices that are 3 to 4 years old? Yes, I think so..

Of course it is. That's how we know that we can get more from this device, if HTC/Qualcomm will do something (but we need more complains in this direction, otherwise HTC will think that people are satisfied with its performance).

Again, PocketPC/WM means a lot more than "business". It's a portable PC. Are you using your PC just for business purposes, productivity? Or you try a game, a movie from time to time? Also, while I work I listen to music. So, next time when you want to post something like "do you want music, games, video get a iphone, dumb!" think twice.
WM is more than what someone of you think. If you use it just for e-mail, calendar, office.. just don't come here with all kind of excuses.

This graphic issue just can't get resolved by itself. We need to shout (yeah tried the "soft" way contacting htc.. but most of us know the quality of their costumer service)

[i360]

You nubs should use Core Player for Divx playback. Once you adjust a few settings and increase the buffer size the playback is flawless. I've also installed a few pocket games and they work fine so I personally dont have an issue with it. Although WMP is a hog with choppy playback using WMV files.

[BigDiesel07]

Originally Posted by i360

You nubs should use Core Player for Divx playback. Once you adjust a few settings and increase the buffer size the playback is flawless. I've also installed a few pocket games and they work fine so I personally dont have an issue with it. Although WMP is a hog with choppy playback using WMV files.

Nubs Sir? I believe not!

I prefer Kinoma, but to each his own.. I have only played Teeter on here so I don't have much experience with the gaming aspect...

[aceracer24]

Originally Posted by chronster

So in the end, who here thinks we'll ever see these drivers?

Would better drivers improve the touch screen response?

I have said about all I have to say on this subject. There will always be opinions and counter opinions on what the phone should/should not do. I am happy with the performance of this phone. Everyone has a right to their opinions and I will leave it at that.

As for the above question, the simple answer is yes, new drivers will certainly improve performance. The hardware is capable, there is no question of that.

I also believe that over time, we will see some new/improved drivers, however, based on the whole HTC Touch fiasco, I seriously doubt we will ever see drivers that will improve this device to the expectations that this thread points to. There are already beta drivers out/found. Juggalo's rom uses some version of a driver and it has made his rom pretty quick.