Does "my location" work for anyone on the new google maps

[TC1]

Originally Posted by crowssong

And just because one self-proclaimed expert says something doesn't mean he's accurate either.

aGPS may use triangulation as part of its data sources, but that doesn't mean that all triangulation (or more accurately trilateration) methods = aGPS. What Google is using for this system is not requiring any use of any aGPS chipset. The program only needs the phone to pass on some tower information. Which means that it isn't requiring any intervention on the part of the assistance server for it to function. Which would be why Google is able to offer this service without getting permission from Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, etc.

If you don't trust Wikipedia, then maybe another article might educate you better.

http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/art...l.jsp?id=12287

Nice try on "might educate you better"... but that is not what we were debating... we were debating the differences between aGPS and sat based GPS. Yes, I know all about how Google tries to do LBS without using any "GPS type" data being supplied to it... it's not an original idea, it's already been done by Navizion:

"Navizon is a software-only wireless positioning system that triangulates signals broadcasted from Wi-Fi access points and Cellular towers to help the users find their way in most major metropolitan areas worldwide."
http://www.navizon.com/

But my original statement still stands... think about this... if Google Mobile LBS is designed to work with any Windows Mobile phone, how come the LBS doesn't work on the Mogul? Why? because as I previous stated, Sprint has either locked down the API that needs to be queried by the software, or they left it out altogether. My vote is for the latter since not even Sprint themselves sells LBS for this phone.... why wouldn't they if they could make money?

Think about it...

[crowssong]

Originally Posted by TC1

Nice try on "might educate you better"... but that is not what we were debating... we were debating the differences between aGPS and sat based GPS. Yes, I know all about how Google tries to do LBS without using any "GPS type" data being supplied to it... it's not an original idea, it's already been done by Navizion:

"Navizon is a software-only wireless positioning system that triangulates signals broadcasted from Wi-Fi access points and Cellular towers to help the users find their way in most major metropolitan areas worldwide."
http://www.navizon.com/

But my original statement still stands... think about this... if Google Mobile LBS is designed to work with any Windows Mobile phone, how come the LBS doesn't work on the Mogul? Why? because as I previous stated, Sprint has either locked down the API that needs to be queried by the software, or they left it out altogether. My vote is for the latter since not even Sprint themselves sells LBS for this phone.... why wouldn't they if they could make money?

Think about it...

No one was debating the difference between GPS and aGPS until you asserted that triangulation = aGPS. That point is what I was trying to correct you on.

As for the reason not every phone works with this service, that would be because the function in question is still in BETA status. Doesn't it strike you as odd that some Sprint phone work and some don't? If it was up to the carrier to allow the service, wouldn't it be all or none?

[VW]

Originally Posted by TC1

But my original statement still stands... think about this... if Google Mobile LBS is designed to work with any Windows Mobile phone, how come the LBS doesn't work on the Mogul? Why? because as I previous stated, Sprint has either locked down the API that needs to be queried by the software, or they left it out altogether. My vote is for the latter since not even Sprint themselves sells LBS for this phone.... why wouldn't they if they could make money?

Think about it...

Actually your first statement that I remember is that aGPS is cellular triangulation, which it most certainly is not, although it does USE triangulation for satellite almanac info etc.

Originally Posted by tavella

You'd almost think we had purchased a VZW phone....

now thats funny... LMAO

[TC1]

Originally Posted by crowssong

As for the reason not every phone works with this service, that would be because the function in question is still in BETA status. Doesn't it strike you as odd that some Sprint phone work and some don't? If it was up to the carrier to allow the service, wouldn't it be all or none?

mGMAPS is not in beta and has been around for a while now. The author of this program was the first one to tap into the aGPS functionality on many phones and use it with Google, which subsequently made him cease from referencing them. Sprint also threatened a lawsuit against him too because he was enabling LBS services on their phones that they wanted to charge for. He has never been able to get the program to work with Sprint WM phones because the API is simply not there or locked down in such a manner that can not be accessed. The Q1 2008 ROM will finally provide that API.

Read this news article and subsequent forum messages below it, hopegully it'll shed some light on what I'm talking about:
http://www.phonenews.com/content/view/2086/9/

We can go around and around on this, you're going to believe what you want and I guess I'm going to believe what I want.

[TC1]

Originally Posted by VW

Actually your first statement that I remember is that aGPS is cellular triangulation, which it most certainly is not, although it does USE triangulation for satellite almanac info etc.

While "aGPS technology" technically can provide some data to the end-device about sat orbits and conditions to help the "real GPS" compute a location, in the real world it's not how it's used on cell phones. An GPS/aGPS enabled cell phone will first try to use the stand-alone GPS sat data to compute a location, if it can't will fall back to aGPS that strictly uses the carrier's network to compute a location. Here's a real-world description taken from one of the carrier's software developer's websites:

"How does Assisted GPS (AGPS) work?
AGPS combines the accuracy of GPS technology, CDMA Network Triangulation (AFLT) and Cell Site Location Technology. This ensures wireless devices can be found with more reliability than traditional GPS services, even in the most challenging environments. Bell Mobility’s AGPS solution will first attempt to use GPS satellites to locate the Assisted GPS Ready wireless device (within 150m in most circumstances) and if unsuccessful will begin to fall back on a variety of network based location technologies.
http://developer.bellmobility.ca/lbs/pre-index.asp

You can go back and forth quoting all the theory you want, I'm talking about the real world application of the technology.

[iwillfearnoevil]

no my location does not work on my uncooked sprint mogul

[Malatesta]

Originally Posted by TC1

Malatesta, aGPS is cellular triangulation... I'll do a quick explanation here (I'm sure I've typed this a million places elsewhere, lol):

aGPS stands for assisted GPS... aGPS in many ways is actually better than stand alone GPS because the device (cell phone)...

I know all about aGPS as I've written on it extensively at WMExperts.

But Google Maps "My Location" is based on the device Cell ID, which on some devices is hard to get (e.g. all Palm OS devices--only one developer has ever been able access it, GreenHex--hence there are 0 Palm OS devices that work with this) and based on signal strength.

Seeing as it is accurate to "within three miles of their actual location", these are not the numbers of aGPS, which is actually quite accurate. This is old school cell triangulation.
http://www.al911.org/wireless/triang...n_location.htm

The assertion that this is aGPS is flat out wrong.

--Mal

[crowssong]

Originally Posted by TC1

mGMAPS is not in beta and has been around for a while now. The author of this program was the first one to tap into the aGPS functionality on many phones and use it with Google, which subsequently made him cease from referencing them. Sprint also threatened a lawsuit against him too because he was enabling LBS services on their phones that they wanted to charge for. He has never been able to get the program to work with Sprint WM phones because the API is simply not there or locked down in such a manner that can not be accessed. The Q1 2008 ROM will finally provide that API.

Read this news article and subsequent forum messages below it, hopegully it'll shed some light on what I'm talking about:
http://www.phonenews.com/content/view/2086/9/

We can go around and around on this, you're going to believe what you want and I guess I'm going to believe what I want.

A square may be a type of rectangle, but that doesn't mean that all rectangles are squares.

aGPS may use triangulation (once again tri-lateration is the correct term here) but that doesn't mean all systems that use triangulation are the same as aGPS. If Google's My Location function was using full fledged aGPS then it's location accuracy would be much better than within 500-5000meters.
http://gigaom.com/2007/11/28/google-my-location/ Even the worst estimates of aGPS accuracy are around 100-300meters. Within optimal conditions 10-30 meters can be achieved. See these links for references:

http://www.nemerix.com/CN/technology/about_agps.htm
http://www.nemerix.com/CN/technology/about_agps.htm

I don't know why you keep bringing up mGMAPS. While the software has the same functionality goal, that doesn't mean the methods used are anywhere near the same. The topic of the thread is Google's new beta function "My Location".

As for your quote from the Bell Mobility, it only proves my point. It is an aGPS chipset, that first uses GPS technology to locate itself, and then falls back onto network technologies. Therefore aGPS is not JUST triangulation.

[Malatesta]

And to put this to rest finally:

Watch Google's *own* video explaining how it works (go to 1:17 in...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6gqipmbcok

It's cell tower triangulation! No aGPS!

Discussion over! lol