Does "my location" work for anyone on the new google maps

[TC1]

Kasracer , I have to respectfully disagree with your explanation. aGPS stands for assisted GPS... it doesn't mean that it's meant to assist a stand-alone GPS device, ie, one that derives all it's information primarily from the overhead satellites. A stand-alone GPS device doesn't need help... think about it. The OEM GPS system in my car never needs help locating a satellite. The stand-alone GPS receivers that you buy for your car (Tom-Tom) never need assistance. Even the small key chain models available don't need assistance. Either there is a signal or there is not.

Now, if a device is both GPS and aGPS capable, that just means if it can't see the sats, then it will use the cellular network to get its lat and long info. One has nothing to do with the other. That's why a flip phone with no standalone GPS capabilites can get location based services via aGPS. GPS and aGPS on a phone are distinct capabilities that have nothing to do with each other, other than the fact that a device may be capable of both and use each one as needed.

[Kasracer]

Originally Posted by TC1

Kasracer , I have to respectfully disagree with your explanation. aGPS stands for assisted GPS... it doesn't mean that it's meant to assist a stand-alone GPS device

What? do you know the definition of assisted? it's meant to assist other GPS chipsets/devices.... your integrated GPS as well as an external GPS tool can both take advantage of aGPS (though, of course, this always depends on the implementation).

Originally Posted by TC1

Now, if a device is both GPS and aGPS capable, that just means if it can't see the sats, then it will use the cellular network to get its lat and long info. One has nothing to do with the other. That's why a flip phone with no standalone GPS capabilites can get location based services via aGPS. GPS and aGPS on a phone are distinct capabilities that have nothing to do with each other, other than the fact that a device may be capable of both and use each one as needed.

This isn't true on most phones. aGPS assists GPS to find a satelite to lock onto. it doesn't just magically replace it if it can't connect with a "rough" location.

Look it up in Wikipedia

[TC1]

Originally Posted by Kasracer

What? do you know the definition of assisted? it's meant to assist other GPS chipsets/devices.... your integrated GPS as well as an external GPS tool can both take advantage of aGPS (though, of course, this always depends on the implementation).
This isn't true on most phones. aGPS assists GPS to find a satelite to lock onto. it doesn't just magically replace it if it can't connect with a "rough" location.

Look it up in Wikipedia

Again, I'm going to have to disagree. All because something is on Wikipedia doesn't mean it's accurate. I'm a BSEE with over 25 years of digital chip, computer, software, and network design. I've talked to developers trying to crack the Sprint GPS issues.

You might get a better understanding of how aGPS works if you look at the mGMAPS web site. Look how the author there wrote the app, and for Sprint phones he specifically says "The QJAE GPS API (Sprint) was updated to prefer assisted-GPS over standalone GPS. This sacrifices accuracy for quicker fixes and more stable GPS positioning." Meaning that, yea, the application magically (as you put it) switches over to the aGPS system to get the lat and long coordinates if the stand-alone GPS receiver can't supply them.

Let's just leave it at we agree to disagree.

[crowssong]

Originally Posted by TC1

Again, I'm going to have to disagree. All because something is on Wikipedia doesn't mean it's accurate. I'm a BSEE with over 25 years of digital chip, computer, software, and network design. I've talked to developers trying to crack the Sprint GPS issues.

You might get a better understanding of how aGPS works if you look at the mGMAPS web site. Look how the author there wrote the app, and for Sprint phones he specifically says "The QJAE GPS API (Sprint) was updated to prefer assisted-GPS over standalone GPS. This sacrifices accuracy for quicker fixes and more stable GPS positioning." Meaning that, yea, the application magically (as you put it) switches over to the aGPS system to get the lat and long coordinates if the stand-alone GPS receiver can't supply them.

Let's just leave it at we agree to disagree.

And just because one self-proclaimed expert says something doesn't mean he's accurate either.

aGPS may use triangulation as part of its data sources, but that doesn't mean that all triangulation (or more accurately trilateration) methods = aGPS. What Google is using for this system is not requiring any use of any aGPS chipset. The program only needs the phone to pass on some tower information. Which means that it isn't requiring any intervention on the part of the assistance server for it to function. Which would be why Google is able to offer this service without getting permission from Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, etc.

If you don't trust Wikipedia, then maybe another article might educate you better.

http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/art...l.jsp?id=12287

[TC1]

Originally Posted by crowssong

And just because one self-proclaimed expert says something doesn't mean he's accurate either.

aGPS may use triangulation as part of its data sources, but that doesn't mean that all triangulation (or more accurately trilateration) methods = aGPS. What Google is using for this system is not requiring any use of any aGPS chipset. The program only needs the phone to pass on some tower information. Which means that it isn't requiring any intervention on the part of the assistance server for it to function. Which would be why Google is able to offer this service without getting permission from Sprint, Verizon, AT&T, etc.

If you don't trust Wikipedia, then maybe another article might educate you better.

http://www.gpsworld.com/gpsworld/art...l.jsp?id=12287

Nice try on "might educate you better"... but that is not what we were debating... we were debating the differences between aGPS and sat based GPS. Yes, I know all about how Google tries to do LBS without using any "GPS type" data being supplied to it... it's not an original idea, it's already been done by Navizion:

"Navizon is a software-only wireless positioning system that triangulates signals broadcasted from Wi-Fi access points and Cellular towers to help the users find their way in most major metropolitan areas worldwide."
http://www.navizon.com/

But my original statement still stands... think about this... if Google Mobile LBS is designed to work with any Windows Mobile phone, how come the LBS doesn't work on the Mogul? Why? because as I previous stated, Sprint has either locked down the API that needs to be queried by the software, or they left it out altogether. My vote is for the latter since not even Sprint themselves sells LBS for this phone.... why wouldn't they if they could make money?

Think about it...

[crowssong]

Originally Posted by TC1

Nice try on "might educate you better"... but that is not what we were debating... we were debating the differences between aGPS and sat based GPS. Yes, I know all about how Google tries to do LBS without using any "GPS type" data being supplied to it... it's not an original idea, it's already been done by Navizion:

"Navizon is a software-only wireless positioning system that triangulates signals broadcasted from Wi-Fi access points and Cellular towers to help the users find their way in most major metropolitan areas worldwide."
http://www.navizon.com/

But my original statement still stands... think about this... if Google Mobile LBS is designed to work with any Windows Mobile phone, how come the LBS doesn't work on the Mogul? Why? because as I previous stated, Sprint has either locked down the API that needs to be queried by the software, or they left it out altogether. My vote is for the latter since not even Sprint themselves sells LBS for this phone.... why wouldn't they if they could make money?

Think about it...

No one was debating the difference between GPS and aGPS until you asserted that triangulation = aGPS. That point is what I was trying to correct you on.

As for the reason not every phone works with this service, that would be because the function in question is still in BETA status. Doesn't it strike you as odd that some Sprint phone work and some don't? If it was up to the carrier to allow the service, wouldn't it be all or none?

[TC1]

Originally Posted by crowssong

As for the reason not every phone works with this service, that would be because the function in question is still in BETA status. Doesn't it strike you as odd that some Sprint phone work and some don't? If it was up to the carrier to allow the service, wouldn't it be all or none?

mGMAPS is not in beta and has been around for a while now. The author of this program was the first one to tap into the aGPS functionality on many phones and use it with Google, which subsequently made him cease from referencing them. Sprint also threatened a lawsuit against him too because he was enabling LBS services on their phones that they wanted to charge for. He has never been able to get the program to work with Sprint WM phones because the API is simply not there or locked down in such a manner that can not be accessed. The Q1 2008 ROM will finally provide that API.

Read this news article and subsequent forum messages below it, hopegully it'll shed some light on what I'm talking about:
http://www.phonenews.com/content/view/2086/9/

We can go around and around on this, you're going to believe what you want and I guess I'm going to believe what I want.

[VW]

Originally Posted by TC1

But my original statement still stands... think about this... if Google Mobile LBS is designed to work with any Windows Mobile phone, how come the LBS doesn't work on the Mogul? Why? because as I previous stated, Sprint has either locked down the API that needs to be queried by the software, or they left it out altogether. My vote is for the latter since not even Sprint themselves sells LBS for this phone.... why wouldn't they if they could make money?

Think about it...

Actually your first statement that I remember is that aGPS is cellular triangulation, which it most certainly is not, although it does USE triangulation for satellite almanac info etc.

[TC1]

Originally Posted by VW

Actually your first statement that I remember is that aGPS is cellular triangulation, which it most certainly is not, although it does USE triangulation for satellite almanac info etc.

While "aGPS technology" technically can provide some data to the end-device about sat orbits and conditions to help the "real GPS" compute a location, in the real world it's not how it's used on cell phones. An GPS/aGPS enabled cell phone will first try to use the stand-alone GPS sat data to compute a location, if it can't will fall back to aGPS that strictly uses the carrier's network to compute a location. Here's a real-world description taken from one of the carrier's software developer's websites:

"How does Assisted GPS (AGPS) work?
AGPS combines the accuracy of GPS technology, CDMA Network Triangulation (AFLT) and Cell Site Location Technology. This ensures wireless devices can be found with more reliability than traditional GPS services, even in the most challenging environments. Bell Mobility’s AGPS solution will first attempt to use GPS satellites to locate the Assisted GPS Ready wireless device (within 150m in most circumstances) and if unsuccessful will begin to fall back on a variety of network based location technologies.
http://developer.bellmobility.ca/lbs/pre-index.asp

You can go back and forth quoting all the theory you want, I'm talking about the real world application of the technology.