Can rom editors/patchers post kitchen versions of your roms?

[luv2chill]

Originally Posted by Despiser

Not sure in what world you live but if creating OEM's was so easy as you state then we'd have many more OEM packages available.

Where is MSVC? Where is Phone Alarm? Put your money where your MOUTH is next time. Better yet just keep your mouth closed.

~Despiser

A fine way to make yourself welcome, Mr. 2 posts.

What in the hell are you doing to help out? I swear, the sense of entitlement amongst some of the users here is astonishing. Before demanding that others create and share commercial applications you want maybe you should stop and consider for a moment that no one here gets paid to do this. If you want those packages ask nicely and wait patiently or, better yet spend a day or two here reading and effing do it yourself.

[konceptz]

I live in NewJersey, I'm not sure where in this wonderful world you live but I have a lot of free time so if creating OEM's is going to take a long time then I will make many more OEM packages so we can all use them

Where could I find MSVC and Phone Alarm shareware versions? Sorry I lost the link. I will put my money towards this site, or paypal you if you help me please. I'll do it next time. Better yet I will just keep my mouth closed.

~lolDespiser

-fixed.

[dracon]

It would be nice if we had some kind of code version system in place for the Base kitchen, so fixes to the OS developed by others could easily be rolled into the base kitchen and then all the ROMS could run from the same base, along with other people getting the benefit of these fixes...

[naigaboy]

Originally Posted by konceptz

-fixed.

LOL, that was funny. Try not to encourage him or the habit, just ignore and we can all get along as we did prior to him. He is behind a computer so he is as strong as hercules, hence his reaction.

[konceptz]

It would be nice if we had some kind of code version system in place for the Base kitchen, so fixes to the OS developed by others could easily be rolled into the base kitchen and then all the ROMS could run from the same base, along with other people getting the benefit of these fixes...

So like 3.5 Vanilla rom R1,2,3,4....

R1 = added ## Codes enabled
R2 = added xxxxFix
R3 = added xxxxFix

and so on?

It would be nice, although some fixes are not universal between carriers and there is something to be said about starting with the original(as far as I know) package.

But it sounds like organization is what we need, and not new releases.

-2cents-

[dracon]

Exactly, something similar to that.... Granted with some things there will be a carrier difference (like VZW and Sprint carrier differences, but those could be resolved by a cab for the extended ROM, or an OEM.. Like how the carriers do...)

The better we make the base kitchen, the better all the custom ROMS that come from it will be. It would also allow the less savvy users to download the latest base kitchen with all the fixes and simply add their own OEMS into the mix and build. :P

[luv2chill]

I agree some organization is needed at this point, as we have different people putting fixes in their own ROMs but not documenting what the fixes are.

This can be done in the Wiki...

- Make a master list of all the bugs present with the stock AKU 3.5 kitchen
- Underneath each bug, put the threads dealing with it, the names of the people working on it, and what has been attempted thusfar.
- Once a bug has been solved and tested, the bug should be marked as such in the wiki, and the solution described (at a minimum) with a cab file and/or OEM package containing the fix posted to the FTP.

I think the idea of creating revisions to the stock kitchen should not be taken lightly, and should be avoided until "fixes" are sufficiently tested (as OEMs or cab files) such that they are deemed fit for rolling into the ROM. Because the last thing we want to do is have to backtrack and revert to old kitchen versions when it turns out JoeBlow's Smartdialer fix only works during full moons.

OEM packages offer limitless ability to customize the kitchen, even for registry changes and the like. They take up a few extra k in the final ROM, but they avoid the problem of dirtying up the kitchen.

For new users all that needs to be done is keep a list in the Wiki of what the "essential" OEMs are that contain the fixes. It may be cleaner to roll them into the ROM, but you also increase the chance that there will be interactions or additional bugs created that will then be harder to sort out.

[Despiser]

Luv2Chill

Perhaps if you had used the "working" Pocket Plus 3.2 you would have an idea of what the "hell" I'm doing. Ive read and read endlessly and all we keep getting are others complete roms. There is no "entitlement" to anything as you so eloquently suggested ./sarcasm...
I as others are merely suggesting others post the OEM and registry hacks in the Kitchen format instead of endless useless recompilations of the existing OEMs which anyone with a reasonable understanding can do themselves.

At what point in time did the volume of posts start to matter in any way? Any retard can post but how useful is that post? Yours is a fat 0 on the scale which only means one thing.

For luv2chill you have some seroius anger issues you should address.

~Despiser

[computercarl]

<rant>

Wow. I can so see both sides of this. On 1 side, you have the newbies that just want roms. "Build me a rom with xyz in it." I was that way once. But,on the other hand, I did some reading, some searching, some asking, and some more reading. I found someone who had made a bunch of OEMs, and started talking to him. I asked him about OEMs, and he taught me a lot. He also made 2 OEMs for me, which both are posted on the FTP -- BTW, 1 of them is SPB P+ 3.2. So, then I rolled my own. Notice, I didnt upload it. I often will download someone's rom and slap it on my spare, play with it a bit, then slap the VZW2.2 on there. I do find it _VERY_ hard to remember what rom from who has what software installed, what has this bug and what has that bug. So, I roll my own.

Bottom Line -- If you cant roll your own, then either go downoad an existing one, and live with it, or learn how to roll your own. It's not that hard to follw directions. Can't write an OEM? Learn. Can't learn? Then stick with the roms from UTStarcom's site.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

</rant>

[jayz11]

First of all this is coming from someone with no programming experience who thus far has contributed nothing and just taken advantage of the hard word of others... so take my friendly rant for what its worth. My vote is also to bring some organization to the kitchen approach. I think there is a critical mass of experts working on this stuff (not me) that we are at a point where some better organiation could accelerate development. (yes my lingo gives me away as one of those management consultants that tech folks hate because they dont understand technology -Im guilty!). The beauty (and danger) of the kitchen is that it gets a lot more of us involved in the experimentation and fun and hopefully helps the innovation. It makes us feel like we're developing! If nothing else even if boarder use of kitchens doesn't help develpoment I think it builds the enthusiast community... and I hope thats part of the reason we're all here. Forums like these are supposed to be sort of messy and confusing... thats part of their charm and what encourages people to learn on their own, so I guess the question is whether people are happy with the balance of solo effort vs cooperation vs confusion here... or do we want to shift the balance a little bit. I think its perfectly reasonable for the experts here to feel that they know what they're doing so everything is fine, and that any efforts to democratize these efforts will lead to the problems that XDA-developers is dealing with.

I've been playing with ImCokeman and Sfaures versions of helmi's 3.5 and its been frustrating but fun. In an ideal world here are some thoughts on organization. I'm not really adding anything new here just repeating a lot of what others have said and what many are already attempting to do:

1. Starting with helmi's 3.5 kitchen, document all that was done to get the basic OS working working. Here's I'm talking just about USB fix, bluetooth, vision connection...etc. I'm assuming Coke and the rest baked all these basic fixes into OS and didn't create OEMs. Here's there can be some debate as to what is considered basic and core to a vanilla ROM (ie. is Crossbow theme, netcf2, smartdialer...etc). Freeze such a vanilla kitchen version as a 1.0 (perhaps by carrier) and release for all to play with.

2. We all devote our energy to testing and developing OEM's. This is the hardest part. I think there are some good instructions out there for developing OEMs. I think they are still a bit confusing but I'm realizing that this is all more of an art than rote following of instructions and that there are probably only a handful of you guys out there who truly know how to do this well. The rest of us can try building OEMs and more importantly test. Regading the current OEM's on the ftp, I've used a lot of them sucecssfully, and others I think still have bugs. I think the FTP needs two folders for OEMs, one for those just created and being tested, and another for those that have graduated.

3. How do we decide when something is good enough to get to the second folder? I don't know. Perhaps we vote... but this would require some more thought on how to structure information exchange on this forum. Ie. when someone develops a new OEM perhaps it gets it own thread. People discuss for a period just in that thread and at some point the Original developer starts a poll to assess whether its ready.

4. All registry performance tweaks can be done in an OEM package (like Coke has been doing), via a well organized and documented .rgu file. That way someone can easily add to it or take out ones they dont want.
Perhaps in this same "registry tweak" OEM, or in a seperate one, someone can start an .rgu which compiles registry setting that customize personal settings after a hard reset, ie. fill in Owner name, device name,
turn today screen items on/off...etc. I've started doing this based on the registry hack thread and looking at others .rgu files but at this point I am so clueless that is mostly trial and error.

5. Revisions of baseic vanilla OS. Now this might be the hardest to manage. We all know that the OEM approach can wrongly simplify the nature of bugs we are dealing with because it assumes the basic kitchen is perfect, and that bugs can be isolated to specific OEMs. Obviously this isn't true (e.g. Windows live search contacts issue). We should try to do as many bug fixes through OEM's but if at some point there is a consensus that there are just too many basic OS fixes need, we can have a new vanilla rom kitchen release. I would suggest that this decision should reside with the handful of experts whose technical prowess we trust (we can all name them easily... colonel, sard, coke, sfaure, vboyz, schettj...i'm missing many).

As an aside... this assumes that the experts think the kitchen approach is superior. I would be the last one to suggest to colonel and sard that they abandon their great efforts using the other method. Their releases are great and I know in their threads they've made the valid point that even if people don't like every app they've included in theirROM, it doesn't haven any memory impact if someone decides not to use it and install their own apps over the ROM. I guess some of us would ideally like to put our own apps in the ROM to get those memory savings. Again, I don't feel any of us are entitled to this, it would just be nice. Again, I really appreciate everyone's hard work. I think the experts in this forum are some of the most patient and encouraging I've seen, and I hope you keep that up and dont let us dimwits get to you with our incessant demands. Yes, we are taking advantage of your efforts, but it is appreciated. If all this wasn't in a legal grey area I would be happy to put my money where my mouth is and pay to subscribe to such a forum.

-j