For The Oncomers ....

**jakdillard** · #1 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 12:03 PM

I saw this post over at XDA and I thought that it should be post here for those of you that like quick answers

"I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.

As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.

Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.

When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.

Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.

The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.

As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.

Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.

XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.

Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.

You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position."

Just a reminder for us too.....

original post here http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...89#post2031989

**mikee4fun** · #2 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 12:25 PM

A men! I have been a member at xda since 2004 after getting and Xda II. I totally see kyhpers point of view.

**shaun0207** · #3 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 12:36 PM

Its actually a bit rough to swallow, but I guess I cant understand what they mean by. Personally I prefer PPCGeeks and EverythingQ to XDA. XDA offeres little help to those of us that do not want to dive that far into modifying our devices. Most of use are just looking for nice themes , simple app thats work and answers to some of the more fustrating questions we have in regards to our devices. XDA is on a totally differnt page in that aspect and that fine. They are good at what they do adn PPCGeeks is great at what it does.

+1 for PPCGeeks.

tom6433 · #4 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 12:50 PM

JD i thanked you not because i am on the same side of the fence as you, but rather a guy that does take the time to read up on 90% of the things i do or want to do to my phone. i have not contributed anything, but i try to apply what i read on here to my own device and needs. i have tried a few roms, yours included, and they are great but they are not me. i am still struggling along, trying to read as much as i can whenever i can. i am sure i could list out what i want in a rom and someone could build it for me in a matter of minutes, but that doesn't help me. i am hoping most users will read what you copied from XDA (i am a mamber there too and do a lot of reading there as well) and learn something from it. i will likely never have half the knowledge that most of the chefs have, but i will keep plugging away.

**jakdillard** · #5 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom6433

JD i thanked you not because i am on the same side of the fence as you, but rather a guy that does take the time to read up on 90% of the things i do or want to do to my phone. i have not contributed anything, but i try to apply what i read on here to my own device and needs. i have tried a few roms, yours included, and they are great but they are not me. i am still struggling along, trying to read as much as i can whenever i can. i am sure i could list out what i want in a rom and someone could build it for me in a matter of minutes, but that doesn't help me. i am hoping most users will read what you copied from XDA (i am a mamber there too and do a lot of reading there as well) and learn something from it. i will likely never have half the knowledge that most of the chefs have, but i will keep plugging away.

I thanked you because you have contributed by READING and SEARCHING when it is all said and done with you will have a vast knowledge of what goes on behind your ppc .....

**jmorton10** · #6 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 12:58 PM

I actually think both sites have their place.

You certainly don't belong on XDA if you're just looking for a quick fix or a cool new theme, but that's what a lot of newer users find here & I see nothing wrong with that myself.

Personally, I am constantly researching & learning new stuff about PPC's so I understand the stuff better. On the other hand, I have no problem whatever giving advice to a noob user that doesn't have to time or inclination to do that (but that's just me)

~John

**shaun0207** · #7 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmorton10

I actually think both sites have their place.

You certainly don't belong on XDA if you're just looking for a quick fix or a cool new theme, but that's what a lot of newer users find here & I see nothing wrong with that myself.

Personally, I am constantly researching & learning new stuff about PPC's so I understand the stuff better. On the other hand, I have no problem whatever giving advice to a noob user that doesn't have to time or inclination to do that (but that's just me)

~John

My feelings exactly

**aceracer24** · #8 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmorton10

On the other hand, I have no problem whatever giving advice to a noob user that doesn't have to time or inclination to do that (but that's just me)

~John

To a certain extent, I agree. I have no problem helping people out at all. Some people call me rude, unhelpful or an *** but usually those people are the ones that didn't take the time to search first and try to understand, didn't bother to read any of the posts to see if the question was already answered, or come off as sounding like they "expect" something for nothing. As though it was the developers "job".

Although the ones that say they don't have time to read bug me the most. They assume thier situation is far worse then anyone elses and should be exempt from the unwritten community rule standard of search, search and search again.

Helping people out is what this site has always been about. I don't believe there is anyone registered to this site that refuse to help people or don't want to help people. The problem is that so many of the simple questions have already been answered repeatedly and in most cases are stickies. When someone asks these types of questions, it's very frustrating.

**jmorton10** · #9 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aceracer24

They assume thier situation is far worse then anyone elses and should be exempt from the unwritten community rule standard of search, search and search again.

.

I don't necessarily assume this when it is a new poster. Say my 80 year old mother had just bought a new PPC & was having a problem with it. She jumps on Google & stumbles across this site & asks a simple question.

If somebody tells her "look, this has been asked & answered 500 times before" she would be completely baffled & simply move on to another site.

~John

**shaun0207** · #10 (**permalink**) 01-26-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmorton10

I don't necessarily assume this when it is a new poster. Say my 80 year old mother had just bought a new PPC & was having a problem with it. She jumps on Google & stumbles across this site & asks a simple question.

If somebody tells her "look, this has been asked & answered 500 times before" she would be completely baffled & simply move on to another site.

~John

Very true. I think we should make NOOBS feel as welcome as possible to better promote the site. We've all been Noobs with our phones. We have to realize that their are now New NOOBs and act accordingly to answering their questions, even if you dont do anything other thatn point them to a thread whre there question have been answered.