Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

I was wondering if the developers are likely to get everything working eventually ?

I am asking because I am considering sinking $600 on a HTC Incredible, but would be willing to wait if the chances of getting Android fully working on the TP2 were high.

I realize this is like looking at a crystal ball; but based on the developer success on the GSM version, and based on their progress on the CDMA version, does this seem likely?

Your opinions are appreciated!

Thanks!

Mark

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

my opinion: no.
when 1ghz+ cpus dominate the market, no one will want to mess around with older slower cpus. it will slowly get phased out.
developing for a non-existing driver is no easy task. and i just don't see anyone wanting to devote so much time to tinker with tp2, when better phones could be had for around $200.

don't get me wrong, i'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone will come through for tp2. but i'm definitely not holding my breath.

i am planning to hold out until someone releases a 5 row keyboarded android with latest specs.

BTW, i don't know if incredible is enough of an improvement for me to switch from tp2, if i had to pay full price ($600)

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

seems like this progression has already started to phase out... the updates released now an days aren't really fixing anything that's not working, just tweaking the speed of the current version...

Wirelessly posted (Opera/9.80 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/5.0.3521/838; U; en) Presto/2.4.15)

I would have to agree that $600 for the incredible is not worth it at all. You're loosing the hardware keyboard and overpaying for something that will probably be eclipsed by something else 6 months after it's released.

Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to have a Android with good specs, but I've jumped the gun on my new every tepwo on my last two devices and don't plan on doing it again.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Thanks for your input; l I am sure glad I asked.

OK, if the Incredible is not worth the $600, I wonder if you have recommendations for an alternative Android phone for Verizon?

Is there some sort of other phone I can pick up second hand that will offer a good user experience with Android 2.1? I don't necessarily need a hard keyboard, but a nice screen is important to me.

Thanks again,

Mark

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

I sincerely doubt we'll ever see a fully functional version of android to run on the CDMA TP2. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see it happen...the likely-hood is just very slim.

Also, I know this has been previously stated but the market IS going to be loaded with 1Ghz devices to develop on very very soon. Why would YOU spend time developing on a device that is so limited because of the processor. The simple answer is that you wouldn't, imo. :angry7:

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Agreed. As Android released more and more bad ass phones, more and more people are switching, some of those likely being developers. I have noticed that while some of us like the idea of Android on our TP2s as a novelty, it seems many want a full replacement for WM. As was mentioned earlier, with so many 1 GHz phones coming out, why even bother with the TP2 development? I know if I were developing this as a replacement, it would be more worth it to me to spend $400+ then 400+ hours.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Boy how things have changed in a matter of a month.
Ask this same question back in late March / Early April and you'd probably get a different answer.

But yes, I agree with the previous posters. It's probably unlikely that it will every be complete. Sound, GPS, and camera all still seem very far off.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

i just want sound and camera. probably will never happen. the touch pro had sound. it is kind of pointless to me to fool around with it without any speaker function for programs and rings and pretty much everything that you do besides making a phone call. i just stopped using android on my touch pro2 a while back. i just think people are loosing interest with all the new phones comming out.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

well im gonna be the lone wolf and say yes! i honestly need to be 100% complete for everything... its a problem. hopefully developers will have the same issue ;) anyway look at what happened to the vogue! that is a fully fully redone wm and android phone. i bought one about the same time i bought the touch pro just to play around with! There will always be one lone developer looking out for us. hopefully!

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

hopefully there are enough sero holdouts that will continue the push...

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

+1 I'm not ready to fork over an extra $20/month for the same features I currently have! And I'm not even on Sero, just an older cheap Legacy plan. The TP2 is the "Last if the Mohicans" for Us wanting to stay on our low cost plans! Fully working Android would keep me on it for a long time to come! I've even got an extra one just in case.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

x2 couldn't have said it better myself...

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

The question was asked: Why spend time developing for a TP2 when you could be developing for phone with a faster processor?

BECAUSE OF THE KEYBOARD!!!

Those faster processor phones don't have one.

So WHY NOT spend time developing for the TP2? It's the best phone out there with a hardware keyboard. And the processor is not at all slow, it's just not as fast as the latest phones.

If you don't care about the hardware keyboard, then I'd say go ahead and switch phones - go for the best phone that meets your needs. But for those of us who don't want to give up the hardware keyboard they will hopefully keep developing this port until it has all features working or a better phone comes out that already has everything the TP2 has and more.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

for me, the Moment smokes a TP2 and has a complete working Android on it and a slide out keyboard.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

yeah processor wise the Moment is better, but the screen is only HVGA and 3.2"

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Funny, most people I know who tried the moment had buyers remorse, and wished for either a) an HTC Hero or b) a Touch Pro 2.

Weird, huh?

But I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with most of you guys here... As someone already mentioned, the Vogue has a complete port working 100%. Bluetooth, A2DP, Camera, GPS, you name it. In fact, many people are flashing WM off their phones bringing Android into internal NAND memory. And all this happened AFTER the Vogue was considered obsolete.

When the Touch Pro and Diamond came out, Android on the Vogue was still a "proof of concept", much like ours is now. Fun to play with, not really ready for prime time. The Touch Pro 2 came out, and the EOL for the vogue came and went- but still there are dedicated developers tweaking and fixing Android on the 2-generation-old phone.
Why? Because some people actually like the design of the Vogue (it IS one of the smallest and most pocketable devices ever made), and because gosh darn it, some people don't buy a new phone just because the next best thing came out!

My point is that right now there are a lot of great Android handsets, but they all have pros and cons. There are still some things that the Rhodium is ahead with in comparison.
The keyboard is second to none (Moment's keyboard has space bar between letters on bottom row? no thank you- The Droid's is cramped and pushed over for a D-pad, found it very hard to type on... most other new android devices don't even have a KB at all, which is a deal breaker for me), the volume and speakerphone system is excellent (better than most smartphones I've ever seen), and the ability to dual mode GSM and CDMA as a world phone is still rather rare. Then there is the cute "wow" factor of the tilting screen (only sometimes useful, but nice to have). As much as many of the upcoming Android phones would be a step up in some directions, they would also be a step down in others.

In fact, I think the biggest gripe most people have with the Rhodium is the WM operating system installed on it. I've heard some folks claim that they wish there was an Android phone that came in a Touch Pro 2 body type. Well, we've proven that is possible. Maybe one day there will be an official phone released like that, but until then I see no reason for Android development on Rhodium to slow down.

Perhaps some of the early adopters who only owned the TP2 because it was the "latest and greatest" on their carrier lineup at the time will leave when the newer Android devices come out. However (and this is just an observation I made, I'm not saying this is always the case), the real hard core talented hackers/developers are NOT the types who jump at the next new fad device. They carefully buy a device, and then keep it around until it has no useful life before retiring it for something else. The Vogue would never have gotten where it is now if this were not true.

So, between the so-far-unmatched pros of the TP2 design, the packrat legacy mentality of talented developers, and the bevy of SERO users who won't give in without a fight, I think this project will go on for quite a while. Just my .02

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

I asked this same question in the android post, and people responded as if everything was Fine & Dandy. But the lack of updates don't lie. I wish they could get it up and running 100%. :sad:

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

well said dishe, thanks given

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Funny- none of the nay-sayers here seem to have anything to do with the folks actually DOING THE PORTING, so this just seems like uneducated speculation.
Its no wonder that after pointing out this thread to their IRC room, the response I got was:

" it makes no sense to use ppcgeeks for android rom posting
... while there is xda"

:/

I think it will definitely happen eventually. But I think most of the posters in this thread will have moved on by then and won't care.

Wirelessly posted (TP2: Opera/9.80 (Windows Mobile; WCE; Opera Mobi/WMD-50433; U; en) Presto/2.4.13 Version/10.00)

Yes what he said. :)

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

The Moment is junk. I know many people who are unhappy with this phone.

You have a point. 2 things to consider:
1) The Android port was done when Android was in early stages and there was not a plethora of Android devices available on almost every network.

2) Maybe the Vogue was obsolete, but what mattered was in the eyes of one person (DZO), it wasn't. So if we have a similar genius willing to dedicate countless hours to the TP2 port then this may happen. But it comes back to this: with so many better devices coming available, why spend the time?

Only time will tell, but I am anticipating that this project will never reach 100% completion.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

While your optimism is admirable I actually believe it is the other way around. You are correct in that not many people here have a hand in the development.

And you are also correct it is speculation but it isn't uneducated. If history is any guide, then it might be a while before it is complete. The Vogue (original touch) is really the only Winmo device that has an Android port that most would consider "complete". So there still is hope but if you consider how many Winmo devices there are, and how old the Vogue is, then the outlook isn't as rosy.

Again, you are correct is saying all this (on both sides!) is speculation. But to call it "uneducated" isn't fair. I mean, I sure hope your are correct but personally I have my doubts.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Get off Verizon ASAP and get the HTC Evo 4G when Sprint releases it this Summer!!!

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Sprint in my area is very poor.

I had sprint years ago. My girlfriend has sprint and she is bitching about it even after picking up the moment the service sucks.


I'll stay with Verizon.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Oh well, I went and bought a second hand droid today. $200 for a perfectly working Android device is way better than waiting. Thanks to all of you guys. Best of luck....

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

No doubt.. That's my biggest hold out.. There's no nice Android phone with a decent keyboard. I fell in love with the TP2 keyboard. The Moto Droid keyboard is horrible!! It was worse than the Mogul I had in 2007.

HTC needs to bust out with an EVO that has the keyboard from their TP2. Now that's a phone!

Damn you Apple and starting this onscreen keyboard garbage! I HATE ONSCREEN KEYBOARDS! I don't care if it's big... I even hate the one on the ipad, so don't say "well..the EVO screen is bigger, so it is easy to type on". Nope. There's no physical buttons to feel.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

I would be happy to join in on a bounty for Android working on the TP2 like it is on the Vogue. I'd drop $150 right now on the bounty.

Money talks and I believe if we wave enough in front of some talented folks they'll whip something soon.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

I think some of you are missing the point. The fact that there are a lot of newer and better android phones has no bearing on whether developers want to finish porting android to older HTC phones. Theres 2 reasons for working on the port. #1 is that it is interesting and fun. #2 is that they already OWN these phones and aren't likely to buy a new one until their contract runs out.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

I get there are a lot of newer and better android phones, but as stated most don't have the best keyboards. I understand that the full port probably won't be around for a long time, if ever. I would hope so but I doubt it. That being said, those are not only the 2 reasons people would continue with this port, it's possible that they really like the look and design, and keyboard of the Touch Pro 2 and would like to have android working on it. It's also possible that there are some developers that are on old sprint plans with good perks and the best phone they can get is a Touch Pro 2 (without upgrading and paying a lot more a month), and they would like to have android on the phone.

I don't know if the android port will ever be completed or not, I would love it to be (because I am on an old Sprint plan, and I can't get a newer android device), but at the same time I don't think it will be.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

I enjoy my hw keyboard very much, especially since the on-screen keyboard w/o multitouch just doesn't work. However, MOST (not all) people do not care for a hardware keyboard, if they did they would get a blackberry or something. Also with the phone getting ultra bulky like our TP2, it just does not appeal to the general public. I know for a lot of you, you're just so used to a hw keyboard, but if you try out a phone with multitouch screen with big screen, you won't miss a hw kb.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

i dont see thm taking it this far and just quiting, although with the faster cpu on the HD2 your probally gonna see the rom for that phone. Great hardware and with both os its gonna be great if there isnt going to be any more win mo phones that we can customize then id suggest we ask and push open for ubuntu on an android OS, take advantage of the Windos/Mac feel just need to integrate the phone and txt working on it, maybe im a dreamer on this but iwould love to get this working on an EVO, IMO

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

i actually prefer the size of the tp2 to my incredible. i got big hands and the tp2 feels perfect, sometimes i feel the incredible is almost too thin. i know thats contrary to most but thats me. if i do end up keeping the incredible long term i know i will have to get an extended battery, not fot the extra juice but to add some girth to the phone.

in regards to the last part i would have to strongly disagree. yes the sip on a multitouch/capacitive screen is better than a sip on a resistive like the tp2, no sip can replace the feel of a hard keyboard. the feeling of the keys cant be replaced. haptic feedback is a joke imo and how people actually can try to compare it with the feel of real keys is comical. and i dunno about anyone else but i can type on my tp2's kb without even looking cant do that with a sip, multitouch screen or not

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

i JUST bought my TP2 two months ago with every intention of running a DROID OS on it bc I was coming from a Vogue. I would have absolutely waited the 2 months and bought the Incredible instead had I known it was coming out. Now, I feel sick to my stomach after spending 30 minutes on the phone with Verizon while they tell me 'sorry, we can't help you' and it looks as though there will be no DROID OS on this phone. Now the TP2 is only $79.99 and I paid $199.99 2 months ago- I HATE VERIZON

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

You guys give up too easily.

There is plenty of support for it still, things are still moving, and there is plenty of reason to still be interested in this device (already been hashed out on the forum). Your pessimism is just silly. Everyone here needs to either pitch in to the effort, or go away, IMHO.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

I'm confident that something good will come out of all devs hard work towards Android development. Just because you don't hear much about any development going on, doesn't mean it isn't happening. Hell, I could be working on something and just not say anything about it...... till I was ready. Not all development is flat out in the open. The TP2 maybe a slower device, but it certainly has a lot of potential. It has good hardware inside, why waste that? And... you know, not everyone can afford a new replacement. Look back a ways, look at all those old pocket pc's still being used today. I'm sure the TP2 will go a long way from the day it was first shipped out of the factory. Give it time, and I bet you Android will be running WITH full sound at least. That part I know, because everyone knows sound is a priority. No sense porting Android over to a TP2 just for experimental reasons. All that hard work just to see if it will run... nah I don't think so. People want more than just an experiment. Now that it has been done, numerous more hours have been put into tweeking the code. I know they aren't giving up there. Someone will always pick up where another left off. It's Linux, or a version of it thereof, the biggest open source OS code available. And theres lots of Linux devs around. Fug Windows.. Linux is the bomb.

And no, FYI I am NOT working on something. It was just an example.. so don't ask... LOL

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

^I think the lack of knowing of any updates is whats causing such pessimism. I mean we are 11 days away from it being a month without a real update. I mean I know that theres people working on it, i'm just always curious as to what the dev's think about the port. Do they think it will be 100%? Do they have the motivation to move it to such things?

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Android for WM phones has never been finished and never will be. Ive been waiting since the mogul then TP now TP2 for one of them to have a fully working android and needless to say....never has/will happen.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

Tell that to all the Vogue/Kaisher/Polaris users who are happily running their 100% ported versions, flashed to internal NAND.

The mogul had some trouble due to the lack of available RAM, other than that there's no reason the TP and TP2 won't be ported (the TP already has working sound, etc).

oooh, 11 days form a whole month? Wow. You're right. We should give up hope... :P

Seriously guys, the working ports took *years*, and didn't happen until well after the official EOL of the devices mentioned. How spoiled are we?
It will take time, no doubt. In fact, if anything, we should be impressed at the amount of progress we've made in the last 2 months- the other devices took longer to even get that far, if I recall correctly. But yeah, I guess a lot of us got used to the idea of things moving fast, and this current lull seems to have dropped its popularity (and optimism).

However, speaking to the actual people WORKING ON THIS PORT, they don't share your pessimism (thank g0d), however they did express a lack of interest in keeping the PPCGeeks community updated, and now I'm started to understand why.

Re: Worth the wait? Will it one day be "complete enough"?
 

One thing to note is Android is a lot lighter then WM in terms of usage and if you noticed runs a lot smoother even though it is using an sd card and not internal memory. Generally speaking even with the processor in TP2 Android runs decent enough for most business use. IT gets a little edgy on the 3d acceleration but we still don't have full acceleration. (I don't expect it to match a snapdragon in any way ofcourse)

Eventually the TP2 will be 100% complete or for the most part 99% (since there is always room for improvement). To tell you how long it will be is hard to say. So far there has been an update once a month with a new major feature turn out once every 3 month.

I remember watching Titan and Vogue when the porting initially started and it was a process of 2 years or so to get it to 100% but it eventually did. The TP2 is actually moving at a faster rate then it did back then, but that of course was the first time a port was ever done.