Response from VZW Rep. re. locked GPS - They must think we are stupid.

[WdGldDave]

Here's the dialogue I have been having with VZW. Start at the bottom and work you way back to the most recent reply.


Dear David,

Thank you for contacting our Verizon Wireless website. We are sorry to learn that you are not pleased with the GPS functionality on the Samsung Omnia. We are happy to assist you.

First and foremost, please accept our sincere apology for the delayed response. Due to an extremely high volume of customer email inquiries, the response time has been longer than expected.

We will provide you with information about the GPS capability on our devices. Your handset's GPS chip is used to provide the handset's location to emergency responders when placing 911 calls. It does not provide any user accessible functionality such as location information for directions, mapping or any other application.

At Verizon Wireless we value the security and privacy of our subscriber data and user information and we have taken this into account in the development of our location based services offerings. To alleviate concerns regarding access to data by malicious applications and misuse of location information, Verizon Wireless' location based services (VZNavigator) utilize a solution that requires each location request to be authenticated and accepted prior to a user's location being obtained through the network and used by authorized applications.

At this time, we are unable to state if/when GPS will become unlocked as no information has been given. We understand and sincerely apologize for any frustration and would like to encourage you to sign up for email updates so you can receive information regarding our new products and services.

If you would like to receive email updates regarding new products and services, please click on "Sign up for email updates" from the "Support" tab located at the top of our www.verizonwireless.com homepage.

Again, we apologize for any inconvenience this issue has caused. Our contact number is 1-800-922-0204, select option number 3 for Technical Support. We appreciate your business and thank you for using Verizon Wireless products and services.

Sincerely,

Philip

Verizon Wireless
Data Technical Support


-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wed Feb 25 15:14:24 CST 2009
To: vzwkanacswirelessdata@gl.verizonwireless.com
Cc:
Subject: RE: Phone is Not Working (WFM40846589)

Carlos,
Thanks for taking time to write back to me. Have you seen this statement by Steve Schwed (of Verizon)? I am very aware of VZNavigator and used it many times with my Motorola Razor. With the required data plan, I simply can't justify an extra $9.99 for GPS turn by turn. Charging me for GPS service is like charging me for using WiFi connections on the WiFi capable unit. It just seems to me that there is a breakdown in communication.
Statement by Steve Schwed-
http://www.wmexperts.com/articles/ve...o_open_up.html
Is the information in this article incorrect? Thanks again for your time. I know that you don't make the policies but I appreciate your attention to this matter.
__________________________________________________ _________
David


Dear David,
Thank you for contacting our Verizon Wireless website. We are happy to assist you with your question.
Verizon Wireless is committed to providing the very latest in products and services. Verizon Wireless does not provide support for the 3rd party software that would be required to make full use of the BlackBerrys's GPS capabilities. As a result, GPS functionality is only enabled for our VZNavigator Application so that we are able to provide a standardized level of functionality and support for our advanced devices. We are unable to state if or when additional GPS functionality will be enabled for the Omnia. We understand and apologize for any frustration regarding this but we are only able to provide information regarding products or services that we are currently offering. We are unable to disclose any unconfirmed information because it would be subject to change and could raise expectations that may not be met.
For more information about our VZ Navigator Service, please visit the link below:
https://vznavigator.vzw.com/index.html
We hope you find this information helpful. Other troubleshooting tips and helpful product information can be found at http://www.blackberry.com/btsc/. If you need assistance in the future, please feel free to contact us by email or call us at 1-800-922-0204. It has been a pleasure assisting you today. We appreciate your business and thank you for choosing Verizon Wireless.
Sincerely,
Carlos
Verizon Wireless


-----Original Message-----
From: wfmmwirt@HQ.VerizonWireless.com
Sent: Mon Feb 23 15:53:17 CST 2009
To:
Cc:
Subject: RE: Phone is Not Working (WFM40846589)
Dear David,
Good afternoon, my name is Irma, and I am happy to assist you with your inquiry regarding the GPS and Samsung Omnia.
I have forwarded your email to our Wireless Data Support team for further assistance. A Wireless Data support representative
will be in contact with you shortly.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to assist you today. We appreciate your business and thank you for using Verizon Wireless.
Should you have additional questions or concerns, please reply to this e-mail.
Sincerely,
Irma
Verizon Wireless
Customer Service


I have the Samsung Omnia and I'm very displeased that Verizon has decided to lock the GPS so only the Verizon Navigator program can be used and not other GPS options (some of which are free: Google Maps, Windows Live, etc.) As a smart phone user we are already required to pay Verizon a monthly fee for internet access and an additional fee for using Verizon Navigator seem unwarranted, not to mention that it limits your users to only one GPS option. Most if not all the other carriers that offer the Omnia do not lock the GPS. A friend of mine has the Blackberry Storm through Verizon and can use all the software mentioned above. What's the point in having one of the most advanced phones if some of the features are going to be crippled?

David

[dmgks]

No, of course they don't think we're stupid.

Reality check: Verizon is a business. Job #1 for any public company is to maximize profits for their investors. They believe that locking the GPS and charging to use it will be more profitable than not, and they won't unlock the GPS unless and until they believe *that* will be more profitable.

How do we convince them that an unlocked GPS would be more profitable than a locked GPS? Buy their competitors' products and service, and tell Verizon why. That's it. If you're not willing to leave Verizon, then all the kibitzing in the world won't change their bottom line.

[seanosaur]

Originally Posted by dmgks

No, of course they don't think we're stupid.

Reality check: Verizon is a business. Job #1 for any public company is to maximize profits for their investors. They believe that locking the GPS and charging to use it will be more profitable than not, and they won't unlock the GPS unless and until they believe *that* will be more profitable.

How do we convince them that an unlocked GPS would be more profitable than a locked GPS? Buy their competitors' products and service, and tell Verizon why. That's it. If you're not willing to leave Verizon, then all the kibitzing in the world won't change their bottom line.

I agree with that but wouldn't it make sense to give full access to the phone capabilities in order in create more sales of said phone?

[GrandMasterB]

Originally Posted by dmgks

No, of course they don't think we're stupid.

Reality check: Verizon is a business. Job #1 for any public company is to maximize profits for their investors. They believe that locking the GPS and charging to use it will be more profitable than not, and they won't unlock the GPS unless and until they believe *that* will be more profitable.

How do we convince them that an unlocked GPS would be more profitable than a locked GPS? Buy their competitors' products and service, and tell Verizon why. That's it. If you're not willing to leave Verizon, then all the kibitzing in the world won't change their bottom line.

Originally Posted by seanosaur

I agree with that but wouldn't it make sense to give full access to the phone capabilities in order in create more sales of said phone?

I would have to 100% agree with both of you.......

[Adrynalyne]

Wireless carriers make money off service, not phones.

[maxtcee]

Originally Posted by Adrynalyne

Wireless carriers make money off service, not phones.

yeah but ppl switch to carriers because of phones i know i switch from tmobile because there lack of wm phones

[GrandMasterB]

Originally Posted by Adrynalyne

Wireless carriers make money off service, not phones.

Catch 22 , they can't make money off the service if your not buying the phones .......... Think about it

[Adrynalyne]

Not really, because most want free phones/feature phones. The people who get smartphones and give a damn about GPS are in a much lower percentile. If only a small percentage of those subscribe to VZNav and the rest leave, it is probably still more profitable to keep the GPS locked in.

Then consider that the average consumer doesn't know the difference between java based OSes and Brew on their phones...then compound that with the fact that there is only one GPS app on their phone--all they know is VZNav.

The only way keeping the GPS locked down is if a large percentage of VZW's customers suddenly become tach savvy and realize that they are being bent over. As it is now, that is not the case.

Catch 22 , they can't make money off the service if your your buying the phones .......... Think about it

Just as big of a catch-22, you can't make money off your service by luring customers in with phones, and have a crappy network. This is hwere Verizon shines. They know that most customers want a dirt cheap/free feature phone, as long as it gets good signal, and minimal drops.

Don't think for a second that Verizon hasn't analyzed this situation many times over. Unless out of the kindness of their hearts VZW unlocks the GPS (and they only mentioned smart phones and a select few at that), it will probably only happen if a lawsuit prevails.

As long as Verizon keeps their advertising straight, I don't see how a lawsuit will prevail. AFAIK, all their phones with GPS are advertised with VZNav, not without.

GPS lock down is not going to hurt Verizon, especially since the amount of GPS units found in cars these days are quite numerous, and those are far more advanced and accurate. Heck, a cheap dash GPS costs less than getting an expensive smart phone. It makes more sense to get one of those, and a free feature phone, than to shell out the dough for a all in one smartphone that can do many things, but none of them as well as devices dedicated to those functions.

[Adrynalyne]

Originally Posted by maxtcee

yeah but ppl switch to carriers because of phones i know i switch from tmobile because there lack of wm phones

Far less numerous than those who will switch due to a bad network.

[j32driver]

So will someone... please... for the love of all that is holy.... HACK THE DARNED GPS!!!!!!