Touch or Mogul, undecisive!
 

k, here goes, I have a mogul that's 4 days old from a Centro exchange and is contemplating whether to make the switch to a Touch within 30 days. I know theres a lot of Touch vs Mogul here but I'm more in need of in depth info. I've tried pix mail and TV tweak on Mogul that worked fine @ first, then stopped working with with no luck, I have power vision and unlimited text for free, as a retention bonus, and would hate to loose those function being that is free, I like the Wifi feature but is not in need of it mandatary due to free data plan, with these in mind, Are the Mogul updates worth waiting for, or the custom roms worth making this phone a keeper ? or should I run with the touch while time is available?

I have a mogul man and I love it, but man the touch is cool, if you're not into wifi or keyboard (don't text much) jump on the touch, it has a cool factor that the mogul doesn't. Plus I hear that bluetooth works better on the touch than mogul, ours is currently crippled.

I use to own a blue tooth but no longer do I care for it, I like the wifi function, though it appears as if i pick up a new network every 5 mins or so, however ,if it's connecting ? that I'm not sure, because it ask for a key of which, of course, I don't know, however I still choose to connect, If It do I'm not sure?

The Mogul and Touch were obviously designed for two different customer groups, the former being more business-oriented, and the latter a more market appealing design (probably developed against the iPhone, which really is out of its league).

I've never used a Touch, let alone touch one, but from what I've read and seen, it's not for me. I can't imagine typing with the on-screen keyboard. I do envy Touch users for having a better IM app (OZ Messaging, does not work on the Mogul), but this isn't that big of a problem. A lot of the other Touch softwares can easily be installed on the Mogul.

As for the Mogul, I love the keyboard. I rarely use WiFi, though it's nice to have it available. The BT issues don't bother me because I don't use BT a lot. I fixed the laggy firmware issue by "downgrading" to WM5, not really a downgrade because it's so much better!

I would not trade my Mogul for a Touch, and plus, it's worth more. The real question is, would you trade in that hard keyboard for a slimmer phone with cool touch functions (which, given enough time, will probably be replicated on the Mogul)?

Depends on what you want out of your phone.

Go Mogul if you want:
-tactile feedback when typing
-flash with your camera
-the option of Wifi
-to HAVE to have a memory manager program (may be fixed with ROM in '08 )
-to HAVE to reset every few days b/c of memory leaks (may be fixed with ROM in '08 )
-sometimes functional Bluetooth (may be fixed with ROM in '08 )
-to have only enough memory to run a couple of programs at a time
-lots of physical buttons to open programs easily

Go with the Touch if you want:
-the latest thing
-small form factor
-lots and lots of memory
-working Bluetooth (out of the box)
-HTC apps that everybody wants pre-installed
-one-handed text entry (out of the box)

Personally from my experience (4 months w/the Mogul, 1 week w/the Touch) I prefer the Touch. Having all that memory is just amazing when compared to the hoops I had to jump through to make my Mogul work consitently. I don't miss the hard buttons now that I know how to customize the HTC Cube and have the HTC Home Plugin. I rarely used Wifi, and most of the time when I tried it didn't work anyway. I was always accidentally opening my keyboard on the Mogul, causing it to go into fits switching from Portait to Landscape and back (each taking 5-10 seconds). The solid body is just easier to handle, and since it is small it's a joy to use! The whole asthetic value is so much higher with the Touch. It's like a work of art.

I've been frequenting the Mogul and Touch forums and have this to say about each:

The people on the Mogul forum are talking about 3 things: 1) how to get a Touch 2) how to make their Moguls function like a touch & 3) how many problems their Mogul has

The people on the Touch forum are talking about: 1) customizing their great phone 2).... um, I think that's pretty much it! There are so few threads about problems, it's like the community is supposed to be, writing programs, helping each other customize, etc...

So, for me it's the Touch (or Vogue if you wan to be specific) that wins. Other people will have varying opinions. But make sure you do research yourself first, and think real hard before pulling that trigger.

Care to explain?
(probably developed against the iPhone, which really is out of its league).

Is this a gesture because of pricing? I was told by a Sprint rep the Touch was price in comparison with the lowering of the I phone cost, not because the Mogul is better,

(I would not trade my Mogul for a Touch, and plus, it's worth more.)


Well said. Is the Wm5 better than 6 or opinion varies?

The real question is, would you trade in that hard keyboard for a slimmer phone with cool touch functions (which, given enough time, will probably be replicated on the Mogul)?[/quote]

Give some time, ppl will find something to complain about, this is the net after all

and honestly, i'll take my mogul + wm5 anyday over the touch any day, the speed of wm5 plus the hardware keyboard and mogul hardware r perfect

I'll put it this way, if you were with atnt, would you get the iphone or tilt, the iphone (touch) just works and works well, but isnt too productive

the tilt (mogul), isnt halfway as stylish, but it gets the job done, from texting to video to music.

neither has a true feature advantage, its simplicity vs ocd (face it, you need ocd to be happy with the mogul)

I just can't bring myself to settle for the TOUCH with no keyboard. 2.16 is solid for me, I just wish I had more RAM and I'm hoping those issues get resolved along with the EVDO rev A ROM in 2008. I was close to switching today but all I had to do to talk myself out of it was send to try and send a text message. PITA. And I send email and SMS all day long on my Mogul so for me, no can do.

Iphone is better

Yeah your right, but that it doesnt mean that we like Touch fiscally, but we do like the apps in Touch, Mogul with wifi, sliding keyboard + hardware buttons everywhere and Touch apps is great.
people who wanted to trade in for Touch, they just did it because others could. Think about it, if Touch was released first then Mogul, you'll hear the same thing, everyone will jump for the Mogul. people like always new toys.
Personally I wouldnt change Mogul for nothing beside the Tilt.

imo if this ROM says what its going to improve the touch will not be better than the mogul period

Mogul is going to have GPS and REV. A. enough said.

My problem with the Touch is that freakin small screen. You should see me try and demo that phone out to customers. It's so hard to navigate that bad boy without pressing four or five times to try and hit the right button. Most of the time, I pull up the cube and pray that folks like it, but most aren't fooled. If folks think the iPhone's keyboard is bad, try the Touch. Still, with Sprint's speed, there are a ton more features on the Touch than the iPhone.

I saw if you don't care about not having a keyboard go for the touch. But like what most said, a lot of the features on the Touch will soon be on the Mogul.

It will'nt have the double size memory as touch thou.

put it like this.... I say 80% of touch owners are EX-Mogul users. That should tell you one thing.


Second off, the whole keyboard thing isn't a big issue as the Mogul users make it out to be. Here's a tip for those typing on the Touch, have the landscape rotation assigned to the hardware button. Anytime you type something, just press the button and use a keyboard like happy tapping or Pocket CM.... this will be like typing on the Mogul hardware keyboard except you can't "feel the keys out". Some even say that full screen keyboard makes the experience better. I don't even know why people are saying its only made for One hand typing. The strict usage of the onscreen keyboard is something different and new. It just takes time to get use to. With the landscape method, I type as fast as I did when using a Mogul, Sidekick or Treo.


Again, this is a coming from a businessman that emails and text more then he calls... and when there is vocal usage, 98% of his calls are on a BT headset. I would pick the Touch over the Mogul anyday based on not having irritating moments like my Mogul froze up due to memory usage or I have to switch to the handset because the other person complaining the BT signal sucks or I have to flash the newest custom rom hoping it solves my problem. There's more people happy with the Touch then people that are happy with the Mogul.


Touch Highlights:
1) Tons of memory to work with (opening multiple programs with no problem)
2) Near perfect bluetooth
3) better "out of the box" interface
4) out of the box BT voice dialing
5) No need of being patient for a ROM
6) EVDO is good enough for not needing Wifi
7) Small and sleek
8) Stereo AD2P out of the box (hearsay?? I will find out when my 855 comes in)


Mogul Highlights:
1) QWERTY Keyboard
2) Wifi
3) A better camera then the Touch, but its still a crappy phone camera with a useless wannabe flash.
4) Alot of room for tweaking and installing more programs for making the Mogul experience enjoyable
5) The ability to gain patience waiting on a official ROM to solve all the CONS



I'm sorry to bash the mogul so much but I just can't suggest to buy it... I feel like you'll be dissapointed big time. All these mogul users use the first 3 highlights I listed as the justification of keeping that demonic device. LOL.... but when you seriously snap to reality and look at it, all 3 things are not a good enough reason to keep the mogul. I'm sorry.


Remember, this is a businessman (who types ALOT of texts and emails and cruises the internet) saying this... Touch>Mogul. All these people say the Mogul is for businessmen and the Touch is for entertainment.....Forget all of that. They both have the same OS and near the same potential capabilities, except the touch has more memory... making it have MORE potential. Alot of people(not all) that are claiming the mogul is better only USED the Touch and haven't own it. As you can see, alot of people that have both devices will suggest Touch over the mogul. Please be analytical on this whole thread and put the two and two together.


I suggest the Treos or the the Moto Q over the Mogul...

and so is the Touch... your point is?

uuuuuhhhhhhhh.... to go from 128 mb of DDR Ram to 64 MB of Ram........ I dont think so.


Its like working at a Job that pays $25/hour with cool supervisors and managers but hard labor.

Then you decide to go to a job that pays $15/hour with strict Supervisors and managers but easier labor.

now the other way around makes alot more sense

And one more point... for the Touch

if you NEED wifi, get the Wifi SD card.


If you NEED a keyboard, go get you a BT Light keyboard.



With the mogul... you can have these things but not even use it or better to say NEED it. I remember when Pocket CM-keyboard came out, ALOT of mogul users were saying "good, I try not to slide out the keyboard as much as I can... so now I can type on screen". But then when it comes to Touch VS Mogul, these same people NEED a keyboard and say "typing only on screen is stupid".

Now, with things you need or might want for the Mogul.... more memory???? have fun trying to find someone to install it. Again, WIFI and the keyboard is the ONLY pros for the mogul.

So people has to decide if WIFI and a keyboard is a necessity or a luxury. Either way, you have those OPTIONS for the Touch as well by buying accessories.

dude you must love your new phone. the only thing the touch has over the mogul is speed period, and i don't care for the form factor but to be honest when i was in the sprint store more people looked at my mogul and liked it over the touch. one more thing with evdo you have to end the call to browse on line, and with wifi you don't.

ok now that you have 128mb ram what did you do with it? I have like 30 apps installed in my Mogul and I run sometimes 6 at the time and still with 16mb left wich it doesnt affect the performance that much. with one app open I stay bw 20/21, so do we really need that much ram in our phones?, its more of a processor that makes the phone run fast or slow. and I believe both touch and mogul have the same processor speed which is 400Mhz.
check out slither's video in youtube, he owns samsung 500mhz processor and 64 meg of Ram, the same ram as Mogul and 100mhz more of a speed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfIkkox01sE
btw that the cube we are working on me and him, still in beta :)

Processor= speed of car

RAM= number of lanes you're driving on

You can have the fastest car in the world, but if there's heavy traffic and you only have 2 lanes.. it won't do no better.




Thats the concept I always use when referring to computers.


Now both phones have the same processor (car)... I pick driving on a 6 lane freeway then a 2 lane street.


honestly, I had to reset my mogul numerous times because these web pages be having all kinds of stuff loading on (and Opera now supports flash so that doesn't help either).


For a test:

currently on the Touch...... I'm watching a youtube video /via TCMP, IE open on pocketYT, opera open on myspace, logged on AIM, bringing up the cube, and playing music on audio manager.



I would try this on my mogul but it aint activated. But I remember my mogul freezing up just doing youtube videos /via TCMP alone.

Mogul and Touch has the same "speed". Touch has more RAM.... there's a difference.



If I'm on the phone, I have no reason to be on the net mobilly. If I'm at home, most likely I'm on my super fast desktop cruising the net and more.


like I stated, people have to determine if WIFI/keyboard is a necessity or luxury. Based on your answer, make your decision. BUT if I have a Touch, and later on find out I may NEED wifi... then I'll purchse the WIFI SD card, simple as that.

that youtube video is pretty impressive. What samsung has 500 mhz??? that new one on verizon??





HTC needs to catch up with Apple and just make a device with 800 mhz like the iPhone. thats why the iPhone runs so smooth.... there's no info on how much RAM it has though, I'm kind of curious on that.

I think the problem with Microsoft is that they make all their OS's rely on over-using the memory/RAM... perfect example is Vista. The compete with OSX, they couldn't figure out how Apple does it (maybe 'cuz Mac don't have drivers)... so they must of said to themselves "Ahhh f*ck it, lets just make the OS soak up more memory to make it seem like the performance is equal to Macs." Therefore, WM6 is the Vista of PPCs.


at the End of the day, I rather have more RAM then needed.... slow or fast CPU, don't matter.

I might drive the two lane street and get faster than you are driving in 6 lane highway, if I know the shortcut to get faster than you are. you have 6 lane highway in the rush hour you will be waiting hours till you get home, while Im cutting all the busy streets and using the shortcut to get home. if your car is defective and you try to use the shortcut it will stop right in the midle of the road and you have to tow it. so basically most of the people went ahead and downloaded this crappy 2.16 ROM and since then the complain did not stop, one after another, even the ones that has already a fine working mogul start complaining just to convince them self to get the touch for free from ecare.
since I got my mogul I haven't had a problem (knock the wood) and still running the same ROM that came with it, if the new ROM doesn't bring Rev A and GPS I will still have the same rom and be happy.
right now, the cube is open, all applications from the cube running and minimized also running youtube video from PIE plus, wathicng yvonne straoviskii, she is hot :)

You say this like you know all the Touch owners personally.

Most seem to forget that each of us have our likes and dislikes and chosing one device over another doesnt make that decision wrong. I could tell someone not to get the Mogul; but that wouldnt be fair. MY experience may not have ever happened to a happy Mogul users and vice versa.

I used my Mogul for 4 months. OTB, it had its flaws. Like most die-hards, I kept it THINKING that it would improve; for me, it didnt. Out of the 4 months I used it, WiFi barely worked. I convinced myself that since I didnt rely on WiFi exclusely, I could ignore its short comings.

BT was a nightmare. On my end, I sounded just fine, but to my callers I sounded like I was under water. Since my end appeared to be trouble free, I spent a lot of time telling the people I talked with that the problem must be theirs. :twisted:

When I first got the Mogul, construction-wise, I thought it was a beautiful device; that thought lasted about 45 days. My Mogul was seperating. When I would close the keyboard slider, it wouldnt lay flat. I found that too often I had to push down on it to make sure the thing was closed properly.

Performance sucked. From day one it had always been slow as dog do do!
I've had every Palm Treo since the 600 and all of them were pretty snappy. Google searching led me to the fact that WM devices were slower than Palm; no matter what WM processor speed. With that knowledge, I learned to adjust to the slowness and stopped expecting apps to open in a flash.

Lock-up/Freezing became the driving force for getting away from the Mogul as fast as I could. I have lost count of how many calls and texts I have missed due to this "bug?" It got so bad that too many times I found myself constantly pushed into a corner because people are thinking that I am ignoring their calls. For hourssssssssss my phone would not ring, but the second I wake it up, here are all these missed calls and numerous texts flooding thru.

Resets - The amount of resets I did in the course of ONE day was atrocious. Please keep in mind that I am talking about when my Mogul was stock and when it was not loaded to the nines with all kinds of 3P apps. Either way, I spent too much time resetting the thing.

My reasons above are what made me switch to the Touch; NOT because everybody else could get one. I have a Treo 755p that I had activated because the Mogul was just not cutting it for me.

Many people say sarcastically, that if you want what the Touch has, get an iPhone. Well, I already had the iPhone BEFORE the Touch, so for me...thats a non-issue and an argument that no one will win in my book. People who say "get an iPhone" come off as superior, never thinking before they typed that ish that some of us actually do have BOTH A-C-T-I-V-A-T-E-D!!

The Treos all have external keyboards, so again, not an issue since obviously for me having devices with/without external keyboards doesnt make the Moguls slide out keyboard the goal winner. I dont base the Mogul's importance on it's keyboard.

As someone else stated, these boards were over-run with people claiming they wanted one-hand operation of the Mogul and also claiming that they didnt like switching back and forth to use the Moguls keyboard.

MOST of them were looking for *cough* SOFTWARE keyboards. But now, when questions arise from people contemplating one device over the other, here comes the same folks, swearing by all that is holy, that the Moguls external keyboard is what they live and breath for.... give me a break.

Based on my Mogul experience, I would never own another one. I need a device that works and works well. I've become bored with tweaking the hell out of any device to make it function properly.

I no longer care to keep a device longer than 30 days just because there are forums like this one that exist. To the average John and Jane Public, they dont know about these sites.

If money is not an object, then having the most expensive doesnt mean you have the best; you only the newest. Yes, the Touch is cheaper than the Mogul; but the Touch just performs leaps and bounds over the Mogul.

The absence of buttons all over the place is great IMO. The Mogul just has way too many of them.

Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Debating the Mogul/Touch pros and cons will not change my opinion of the Mogul being a device that should have been scrapped on the production floor.

And for those that are always so willing to pick up a bat and attack a persons individual opinions for what they feel- ask yourself- what do you gain?

Haven't really posted much, but great post ScandaLex!

I think I'm going to try to switch to the Touch, for very much the same reasons (BT really wasn't an issue, but doing Settings>System>Memory>Running Programs>Stop All several times an hour, soft resetting frequently, and not getting phone calls/texts/alarms when my phone was charging pretty much did it for me).

holly shit, that was the longest post I ever see in any forum, anyway to make the life easy, IN MY OPINION with all the respect to you guys, My Titan is great and I would never think of exchanging it with touch, and I know I can and easily for free, my Mogul will be changed only with something like tilt. since day one Ive been using the hardware keyboard, I did make the full screen SPB keyboard skin for touch users http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=343953, I did give them the hack for using 40 key in HTC keyboard just because everyone was complaining the 20 keys suck and can get use to it http://sprintusers.com/forum/showthr...ip#post1524215, but people like me who does help people like you, makes you keep the touch and be happy. I would never change my opinion of my mogul, so this will be the end of my discusion in this thread because I dont wanna go too far. I gave my opinion and that all matter.
by the way my friend has a touch and he is switching back to Mogul, just because he saw the performance of mine and what I did with it.

if this one of the reasons you wanna switch to touch, than that it for me I wouldnt say a thing, I think Im just waisting my time.

I dont much care if this is the shortest or longest post anyone has ever seen. It apparently is what I had to add to the thread and you probably said that because it was your post I quoted to start.

My point is, I have been around many forums and no matter what the device, there is always going to be pros and cons. I stated that the above was my opinion but it's an opinion based on my experience with the Mogul.

I am happy as all get out that you like yours so much; many others do as well. But on the other hand, many of us were ready to ditch it out a window.

When something other than the Touch comes along or maybe the successor to the Mogul, we will be right back at square one debating which one is better.

They're already out there, but those devices don't have too much cons....

I'm suprised we don't have Touch Duo/Polaris vs Tilt/Kaiser threads.....

the iphone memory is a strange and hard thing to find... one very good friend of mine who is a mac addict told me 192 mb strange odd number but he knows his stuff and is a pc security technician that runs a sizeable data center solo. on the other hand 128 sounds alot more realistic and some support to the theory is in the link below... one thing that ruins this links credibility is the last statement "I can't even imagine what OS X these days would be like running on 128 MB of RAM"
obviously this guy does not understand what a mobile OS is and that osx is just the base system


http://arstechnica.com/journals/appl...-and-cpu-speed

Well, my advice is search the bug's and complaints threads for both and compare them with the facts, flaws and shortcomings. If you ask people's opinions your gonna get the die hards on both ends plus people that are 1. Pissed that they dropped so much money on a device with flaws OR 2. Pissed that they switched to another phone when they shoulda kept the original both needing comfort and assurance that it was the "right" decision.

I was under the impression that only the ATT version of the Mogul is WIFI card capable???









like I stated, people have to determine if WIFI/keyboard is a necessity or luxury. Based on your answer, make your decision. BUT if I have a Touch, and later on find out I may NEED wifi... then I'll purchse the WIFI SD card, simple as that.[/quote]

I only want to provide my opinion because someone's opinion assisted me in taking a chance with the Mogul (when i dropped the 6700 for the Q) and now in trying out the Touch.

I went with the Mogul because i heard that many of the flaws of the 6700 were fixed. Well this was partly true, there are still some issues (BlueTooth for instance) that still plague the device. I'm not sure why BT is such a problem for HTC phones but i speculate that WiFi and BT sharing the same radio may have something to do with it.

I'm no engineer and i have no proof to back that up, except that the Touch has a phenomenally better BT setup. I tested it and the person on the other end had no idea that i was on a headset at all, much less a BT headset.

Same headset with the Mogul, lots of drop outs.

Now as many others said, the decision comes down to what you can live without.

Personally, i can live without a hard keyboard and wifi. Once you get a really good software keyboard (or a set of keyboards ;-)) you may be able to adjust to the Touch. Also look into an app like AEB Button Plus which allows you to assign up to four functions to each of the very limited buttons on the touch.

If you can't, go with the Mogul, until a new model is released with more Ram.

It took me one day with the Touch to decide that i will be shipping Sprint my Mogul (they offered an exchange).

I was honestly skeptical of the Touch and thought that i wouldn't be able to get used to it. You won't know which is best for you, until you try.

My $.02

-s

What flaws? I have no problem with my XV6700 whatsoever. The only complaint I have is the incompatibility with Rev A.
Again, I never have such problem, and I am using a Jabra BT headset with my XV6700. By the way, the drop calls could be because of the network coverage and not the Bluetooth.
Keep in mind that emails are not the only things that need typing. Will these onscreen keyboards work with MS Excel, MS Word, and so on? With half of the screen or most of the screen covered up by the onscreen keyboard, will you be able to see what you are entering and the proper format?

I will keep an open mind as the Touch et el seem to be nice devices, but I have to see it to believe it. :)

[/QUOTE]



I dont know what you mean..... BUT:


-Mogul has built-in Wifi

-Touch doesn't

.... but you can buy a SD Wifi Card for the Touch.

I was informd that only the ATT version of the touch uses wifi cards, not the cdma version ?

You know, you raised an interesting point, i never thought about how i would use ms word or excel with the touch. I guess i'll cross that bridge when i get to it.

The 6700 does have flaws, hence the release of the 6800. Don't get me wrong the 6700 is a great device, especially with all the custom roms out there and the many fixes that are out there, but a stock 6700 has a lot of issues.

Unfortunately the drop outs that i experienced only happened with a BT headset and i could recreate them at will using most of the stock Roms (the Alltel one seemed to have the best BT performance) When i held the handset while talking or used the wired headset in the same areas, no problems or drop outs.

Bottom line, the Touch is not for everyone, which is why i say to try it first before you drop any money or start emailing Sprint to have them send you one.

-s

MAC OS based computers have always had strange amounts of RAM. I believe since MAC used to (or still do) had memory built onto the mobo and also had ram slots. OS X on a mac with 128mb is SLOW AS HELL!!! With slightly more ram (32mb) it ran much faster.

Sorry but I don't have the hands of a girl scout. It's hard for me to type on the screen of my phone. I always slide it out unless the message is short enough to use the transcriber or SPB KB. The Mogul is the perfect size and does everything I need it to do...and does it well.