HTC's 2010 Lineup

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

And LMAO @ using a generic microsoft stock to make an argument on this discussion...

Please elaborate on how Microsoft stock is not relevant. It is probably the single most unbiased indicator here. There is no journalist inputting his own opinion- it's just the market speaking to us.

Again, if Windows Mobile was hurting their bottom line, investors would be calling for it to be scrapped. Please shopw me where that has happened. I provided the links where you would be able to find such a report if one existed. And I even provided the independent yahoo finance links- intentionally not providing the MSN Money links due to bias concerns...

Get the hint here? Windows Mobile has a HUGE backer in Microsoft. Much bigger than the opinion of some random blogger. For anyone to say Windows Mobile is in trouble, they better first demonstrate where either Microsoft as a whole is in trouble, or where Microsoft has even hinted that they will stop pouring resources into it, or even where investors are calling for Microsoft to drop it.

NONE of that has happened yet. On the contrary- Microsoft is actually making money off of Windows Mobile, and there are more Windows Mobile users today than at any point in the past. So there is no way it is in trouble.

You seem to have the impression that just because the iPhone is selling more than Windows Mobile that Windows Mobile must be doomed. That is not the case at all. As long as it isn't a burnden on the investors, Microsoft has plenty of resources at its disposal to keep pushing it. And right now it is the oposite of as burden- it is actually making money (even if not as much as the iPhone) and has more current users than ever before.

[acts]

Saltydawg, your dismissal of x10guy's articles is calling the kettle black. Sure, on a couple of those guys ("journalists"/"editors") like the ars guy, they don't seem very credible, I'll give you that. But that's what they do as journalists and and editors. They gather sources, then make an informed opinion. I mean one of them was clearly a "Viewpoint" piece, it even said Viewpoint at the top.

However, on the flip side, you dismissed his articles and used articles that pretty much are reflective of the same problems. Even your source on worldwide licenses is iffy. It's a blogger who follows Microsoft.

Stock prices are irrelevant for the most part because windows mobile is only a subset of the Microsoft corporation. MS is so big and has its reaches in so many things even if windows mobile tanked, you would hardly see a dent in the stock prices. Put it on the flip side, If google android never grew out of its 2% share in the next year, and WinMobo came out with a bang in H2 2010, do you think Google stock would drop? Probably not.

[acts]

Going back to the HTC Lineup for 2010:

http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1126812

This is a gartner article. I'm not going to shell out $1200 for more in depth readings for you guys.

Samsung and LG both had a very strong second quarter of 2009 with sales of 55 million units and 30.5 million units, respectively. Samsung's touchscreen devices, qwerty phones and smartphones drove sales in mature markets, and Gartner expects it will continue to gain market share in the second half of 2009 to close the gap with Nokia.

Samsung currently has majority platform in winmobile and are planning to move to 50% android, 50% winmobile in the next 1.5 years. At the current rate, Windows Mobile 7 will be out by then, clearly Windows Mobile has a big chance for growth if it can fix itself.

Motorola's sales of 15.9 million units were slightly better than expected, but its presence has rapidly concentrated on the Americas, and it has lost most of its share of the Western European market, where it sold fewer than 1 million units in the second quarter of 2009. Most operators and customers will be waiting for Motorola's new Android-based products planned for the fourth quarter of 2009.

Motorala is basically a wash in europe. The droid may be great right now in the US, but the touch pro 2 is selling more than the droid for verizon at this point in time. We have to wait until we get out of Q42009 to know how well the droid, TP2, iphone, and various android phones did.

At the high end of the smartphone market, HTC remained in the No. 4 position behind Apple, where it has been since the third quarter of 2008. It reported lower expectations for the second half of 2009 due to product delays and now expects 2009 revenue to decline by low- to mid-single digits year-on-year, far below its previous outlook of 10 per cent annual growth.

HTC is holding at 4, right behind apple. It has a strong partnership with Microsoft, and is beginning to offer Android phones. However, keep in mind the HTC Touch HD2 came out in europe this quarter. Touch Pro 2 is selling very well.

Microsoft's share continued to drop year-on-year to account for 9 per cent of the market in the second quarter of 2009.

"Microsoft licensees HTC and Samsung continued to add features to their own interfaces, on top of Windows Mobile, to create more competitive products and make up for the usability constraints of the Microsoft platform," said Roberta Cozza, principal analyst at Gartner.

Yeah, Microsoft share continues to drop, but the fact is, Microsoft holds 9% share worldwide on the mobile os scene, and android holds roughly 2%. The fact is, we don't know if there's a Microsoft phone that might come along. Windows Mobile OS success depends on the manufacturers and what they will do with the upcoming windows mobile 7. If HTC and other manufacturers can do with WinMobile 7 with what has happened with the Touch Pro 2, and samsung with the Omnia, things might change drastically. Until then, the battle is just getting started, Win Mobile is not on the decline as bad as people say it is, and Android is just teething.

Personally, again, I re-iterate, I'd like to see HTC's roadmap for the 2nd half of 2010 to see where android and windows mobile are gonna be.
It'll also be interesting to see when Samsung will decide to roll out BADA, since it's closing in on Nokia as #1 in the world, and it's obvious BADA will directly compete with Symbian, Android, WinMobile and RIM.

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by acts

Saltydawg, your dismissal of x10guy's articles is calling the kettle black. Sure, on a couple of those guys ("journalists"/"editors") like the ars guy, they don't seem very credible, I'll give you that. But that's what they do as journalists and and editors. They gather sources, then make an informed opinion. I mean one of them was clearly a "Viewpoint" piece, it even said Viewpoint at the top.

However, on the flip side, you dismissed his articles and used articles that pretty much are reflective of the same problems. Even your source on worldwide licenses is iffy. It's a blogger who follows Microsoft.

Stock prices are irrelevant for the most part because windows mobile is only a subset of the Microsoft corporation. MS is so big and has its reaches in so many things even if windows mobile tanked, you would hardly see a dent in the stock prices. Put it on the flip side, If google android never grew out of its 2% share in the next year, and WinMobo came out with a bang in H2 2010, do you think Google stock would drop? Probably not.

Well it's like this...
He is basing his entire argument on the opinion of some people who are not qualified to give the opinion (at least not the way he is using their opinion).

I don't care about their opinions. I took a fact from that article, MS all time record for WM sales. I didn't even read the rest of the article, nor did I cite the author's opinion as part of my argument. I just cited one of the facts listed in the article.

I then listed an opinion article by one of the same authers he had linked to (the New York Times guy) and didn't use it as part of my argument either. I only listed it to show him how ridiculous it was to base an argument on someone else's opinion that isn't even qualified to give an opinion on the matter.

But the cell phones users signing 2 year contracts, that is obviously part of my argument. It wasn't even contested, but I linked to a source just in case there was any doubt.

Stock prices are absolutely relevant for this discussion. Because if Windows Mobile isn't affecting the stock price, then how the heck can anyone say it is in trouble? Yes, Microsoft is huge- that is the whole point. Microsoft is plenty big enough to weather any storm. Unless investors start calling for Microsoft to cut their losses, then Windows Mobile will keep getting more and more resources thrown at it until it succeeds (just like the Xbox). Not that Windows Mobile is even in a storm though- there are currently more Windows Mobile users right now than ever before.

And yes, Google is the same way with Android. Wich is ironic you bring that up, because Windows Mobile hasa bigger market share than Android right now, and nobody is saying Android is in trouble...

[x10guy]

Finally some others are joining and recognizing saltydawg's faulty logic.

His Microsoft stock argument is weak at best.

His dismissal of almost ALL current articles on the state of the smartphone market is very narrow.

His insistence that Windows Mobile is at an all time high, is simply hard to believe.

Look, all of us have a vested interest in seeing Winmo doing well... but the numbers just don't add up.

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by x10guy

Finally some others are joining and recognizing saltydawg's faulty logic.

His Microsoft stock argument is weak at best.

His dismissal of almost ALL current articles on the state of the smartphone market is very narrow.

His insistence that Windows Mobile is at an all time high, is simply hard to believe.

Look, all of us have a vested interest in seeing Winmo doing well... but the numbers just don't add up.

And therein lies the heart of the problem- my argument is based in facts (sales numbers, stock price, invester analysts, WM7 release date, etc). Yours is based in unqualified opinions (random bloggers, random message board posters, etc).

Speaking of numbers not adding up- how about you post some numbers and we'll see if they add up or not. I already posted some numbers (sales and stock) and they looked pretty good. Maybe not as good as iPhone's, but still pretty dang good, and better than Android.

[x10guy]

right... and everyone else in this thread is wrong too.

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by x10guy

right... and everyone else in this thread is wrong too.

First off, not everyone in this thread agrees with you- acts also posted several facts that own your argument. If you thought he was agreeing with you, well, you better read his post again. Second, I'd still like to see you post some facts to back your argument. I have already posted several facts to support my argument. All you have posted is your opinion, and then a few opinions of others (who readily admit they are not qualified to give such an opinion in their profile).