I would like your input on this...
 

I'm currently working on porting a 21109 XIP and SYS that I found earlier this year. I got the XIP ported and working with the SYS of the original ROM that I had previously flashed onto my phone. The problem I've run into now is getting the ROM with the ported SYS working. I'll start doing extra reseach into this but as I've done so much already on xda-developers as well as here on PPCGeeks, I'm currently near my wit's end. Here's what I've done so far:

Removing uneeded folders (AdobeFlash, AutoUpdate, FWUpdate, etc...) No Boot
Translate all remaining .rgus in folders and replacing .mui files to english No Boot
Use 21109 SYS with edited .VM No Boot
Replace 21109 OEMDrivers with original OEMDrivers No Boot
A few other attempts which also resulted in a a Non booting ROM

I've made sure to G'Reloc everything so that the file in the SYS falls in the correct places but to no avail. WINCENLS_WWE is in the SYS as well

If anyone can help me with this I'd greatly appreciate it.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

I think an interesting approach would be to create the ROM as a bare, or with a minimum of items and then cook the CABs of the available applications into the ROM and finally, cook Tier Autoinstall into the ROM so that the first time the ROM boots up, the user has the ability to select which CABs they install.

So, the base you select can be customized each and every time it is installed and is only limited by the number of combinations of installable CABs that you build into the base.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

This project sounds very familiar ........... Hmmmmm

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

haha. i was thinking the same thing

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

Thanks boggsie for that great ideas. It made me think of implementing something you'd normally see in Unix-like operating systems: software repositories. Think pacman for Arch Linux or apt for Debian. I'll definitely look into Tier's AutoInstall and Paul's AppToDate to see what they can do for the user.

You're both right. These were just ideas I was throwing out there to gather interest and see how popular they would be. Thanks for the input.

I'm currently working on ironing the bugs out of a ROM I'm building for helping with developing OEMs. I'll release that ROM this week under the codename RL (RegistryLogger). AppToDate and UC are slated for the next version of this ROM. Once I figure out a way to get the two to work together like pacman or apt, users and developers would also have the option of not using their computers for everything except flashing a new bootloader, radio or producing software or ROMS.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

That sounds like a good idea. Though I prefer to use my computer more, i'm sure that would fill a niche

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

It's a really good idea and i'm glad other cookers have done it this way.. but my only thing against it is that i always have to search high and low for all the *.cab's i want to install and once i finally get it all set... like last time something went wrong and i went into a constant reset or the fact that there is a new update every 5 days... i'm not blaming anyone .. simply wondering if there is a better way to do this... maybe have a cab sticky with all the latest cabs or sumthing.. at least it will make the search a lil less tedious.


this might just be me..and i guess im too picky with what is on the full ones.. which is why i have cooked my own lately but i miss a lot of the tweaks and things that the experts here know

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

Whatever you do please make sure that you make reg edits so the touch will run faster, no matter what rom i have i feel like the touch is under powered and laggy, its just not smooth enough for me. I am looking for a stable rom that will run fast and some of the rom's use to much memory and slow the touch down only leavin 56 mb of free ram and under 60 mb of free ram the touch gets really slow to me. Reg edits to make run faster and reg edits to increase internet speeds.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

There seem to be quite a few people who could do without the entire PPCKitchen. The suggestion I made, would cater to their (individual) needs, in that a ton of CABs would be built into the actual RUU_signed.nbh file and on first boot, Tier Autoinstall would fire up and list all of those CABs. Then, the user could select only the programs that they wanted.

Of course, this isn't my project, but I think the idea has merit, too. Unfortunately, because it would (potentially) contain so many CABs, the RUU_signed.nbh file would be H-U-G-E.

Best regards,
-boggsie

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

I do agree with you on the cabs since I ended up with my perfect setup (along with having to install new programs every few days), then I installed Opera Mobile 9.5 Beta (The PIE Killer) and had to hard reset since I didn't know the values under which keys in the registry Opera changed. I hope a lot more software developers and ROM chefs adopt AppToDate as this could potentially cut down on the time needed to search for the cabs. Just grab a master xml file off a webserver edit it to include the programs you want and let AppToDate do the work for you when it comes to downloading and installing programs. I guess a 'COMPLETE' ROM would be like Vista Ultimate and I definitely wouldn't want to have slowing down other users Vogues.

I definitely will stealth-twinturbo. That's why I'm producing the RL ROM first to help me figure out what registry values I need to change under which keys in order to get blazing performance. All I know know is that changes to the OOM values for more memory is a bad idea. But you can expect the pagepool to be 32mb along with tweaks to the filesystem cache and glyphcache and much more can I'm going to list right now.:mrgreen:

That is also true which is why I would like to setup some sort of package manager to do the work. If I'm not mistaken AppToDate can do the work of downloading, and installing the programs while WM's own Remove Programs can take care of removing them. All we would need now is a way to download master xml files as well as select which programs should or should not be installed but not have it in a very long list which I believe would be quite traumatizing to certain users. Also if I'm not mistaken Tier's Autoinstall should work with cab fils on the storage card too which would mean a very lean but very customizable OS. If we could have AppTodate or the GPM (Graphical Package Manager) run before (should the master xml file have been OEM'ed) or after the Autoinstall (should you want a custom set of programs to show up due to a custom master xml), then I believe a lot of the problems with finding cabs for installing just after installing the OS could be negated. Or someone could package similarly themed program's cabs into different directories inside of a rar file which can be extracted onto their storage card for Autoinstall to look up and install after the OS installation.

Tell you all the truth, I wasn't expecting the kind of reponse I'm now getting. Thank you all so much for your input. I'll definitely do what I can to make the fastest, stable and above all else most customizable ROMs I possibly can. For now I better finish my homework.](*,)

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

No offense, but you weren't the first one to make clean/loaded ROMs either ;)

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

Any work on your rom i am very interested..

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

.. gah.. i can't find the htc keyboard .cab.. at least not any recent version of it

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

i hope that this Diamond operates smooth without being so slow, like my Sprint Touch, i feel like every windows mobile phone is so laggy and slow, i don't really like the iphone but the iphone operates so much smoother to me the functionability of windows mobile is awesome and i love it, but ITS SO SLOW TAKES TO LONG TO LOAD SCREEN MOVEMENTS ARE LIKE 30FPS.i hope that this Diamond operates smooth without being so slow, like my Sprint Touch, i feel like every windows mobile phone is so laggy and slow, i don't really like the iphone but the iphone operates so much smoother to me the functionability of windows mobile is awesome and i love it, but ITS SO SLOW TAKES TO LONG TO LOAD SCREEN MOVEMENTS ARE LIKE 30FPS.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

I'm still working on the ROMs but it'll only be the RL for now until I get all the registry settings right. I'll send you a PM with a link to the 'kitchen-stock' ROM with the modified registry settings. If you reading this too boggsie and jakdillard, I'm sending you both one as well. In the future, I hope to produce ROMS from carrier's official ROMs since they haven't been modified from their stock setup. That'll take some time though.

I hope so too or else HTC will have a bit of a flop on their hands. Speaking of the Diamond, I was reading up on porting a SYS from a donor ROM from a different device into the ROM to be cooked and I think I'll just port one from the Diamond (or the Pharos) and work on it.

You kind of lost me on that comment. The newest one I know about is the one the one from the Touch Diamond. I don't know where to find the cab for at the moment but I believe a simple search in the XDA-Developers forums or PPCGeeks should yield good results.

Nite everyone!

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

ok who was ?

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

i think the diamond keyboard is fugly.. i want the one right before the diamond came out.. or the equivalent that is in the kitchen

ps sorry for being off topic

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

No problem at all. Giving your input on what you'd like to see included in the ROM is what this thread is about right? I'll try and look for it although I'm not sure what versions I'll find.

The RL (RegLogger) ROM will be finished by this weekend and I should have an OEM of Opera Mobile 9.5 Beta finished not long after. I'll send PMs to those who replied to my thread with a link to download the a 'test' ROM. This ROM will be based either on no2chem's kitchen-ifyied 3.04 (Alltel) ROM or the leaked Sprint 3.02 ROM. After I get the responses from you all on what works and what doesn't, I'll begin my work on porting a Kaiser, Polaris or Diamond SYS to a stock Alltel and cleaning it all out as much as I possibly can including removing Outlook, PIE, and settings like Owner Information (which I find to be kind of a security threat so I never used it) and editing the registry to suit. I'm doing this not because it seems cool. I've been inspired to put more work into my ROM due to these to threads here and here. If anyone thinks removing these would be impossible, let me know. That all said, I'm now looking at my touch running my test RL ROM and QuickMenu is showing me that I have 82mb of memory free. I believe you're all in for a nice treat.

One more thing: I did not put this thread out there to gather arguments, it is meant only to gather ideas from those interested in a different ROM. No bickering please.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

Currently building another test version of the RL ROM. Hopefully I won't have to change its setup much unless I'm doing registry editing. Thanks for being patient as it won't be too long until I start the next phase of the project.

Update: Card Export II works! Build 3.11 works perfectly with with WM6.1. Unfortunately, WM5torage doesn't use Card Export II's drivers for 'exporting' the card to be read and written to like it did back on WM6.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

<scrambles to google>
I wonder; did you happen to try to un-check the enable advanced network functionality on the USB to PC connection setting applet?

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

That's a great idea. Unfortunately after testing that theory it would appear that WM5torage hates cards formatted in FAT32. I'll test again with a FAT16 formatted card and post my findings.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

for new users this is one of the best ideas i have ever heard if i didnt add e few extras to my stuff i would load this on my parents phones but they want there phones very similar to mine. i love the direction this is going if this winds up being a pretty stable rom with this idea in it i will keep it on my memory card in case i flash a rom that i dont. then i can just flash back and be totally happy.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

I'm glad your interested in this barebone ROM project. I believe the only things differentiating this project from others is what I'll be adding to them in the coming weeks and months. Your added ideas and opinions will help to ultimately decide where I'll take this project in the future.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

How bare will you make this rom? Will you have keyboards included? and or 6 tab home? The only thing i hope is that it is smooth and fast running im sick of my touch running like maple syrup, need new damn video drivers.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

hey i just wanna say that this really does sound like an awesome project/idea. especially the package ideas/the ability to get updated cabs and such from other servers in order to conserve space and keep up-to-date. very slick idea and pretty innovative too!

ill definitely be keeping an eye on this project, thanks a lot. as for now i dont think i have anything to add other than SPEED is huge to me, and i as well believe that the touch is LARGELY lacking in that area. even with all the best software, cleanest rom, best reg-edits, and most efficient page-pool...it can still be pretty sluggish.

thanks again! :)

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

Deleted by ME! Same as next Post...Just having a noob moment!

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

This project would not be difficult at all. Take a clean build, follow my tutorial in my sig, and then....I could easily create an OEM for TierAutoInstall where users would simply drop their cabs into a special_OEM, the special_OEM would then be dropped into the kitchen OEM directory and rebuilt to suite anyone! Let me know and I could upload the build-it-yourself-cab-oem. Then the user would just have to buildos, buildit, and then flash their rom. I can see that working fairly smoothly.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

I hope for the ROM to be about that bare. No keyboards. No dialpad skins or smartdial. No PIE. No Outlook. No video or even gps drivers. Nothing goes onto that ROM unless you decide to put it there. So you'll need the bare essentials to make it usable: 1) A dialpad skin. 2) A keyboard. 3) Drivers for sound, video, gps as well as the tweaks to the data connection for PIE, Opera Mobile, and Skyfire.

The choice is yours...

No problem at all. I'm glad you like the ideas being expressed in this brainstorming session and are bumping the ones you like. I hope you enjoy the ROMs once they are finished.

@Everyone
I'm just about to test the latest build of the RL now. It'll be this one that gets the registry tweaks for speed. You will all be invited to try the ROM over the weekend. I'll definitely need your input on the speed and stability of the build before I can proceed any further with the producing the new ROMs.

Best regards to you all,
Soul_Est

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but it seems that this idea heads back to a user-driven unique build, which contains the cabs which that user prefers.

Again, I am not a driver as this is not my project, but I believe one of the goals is to produce an extremely lightweight, clean base and then have the ability to allow the user to select cabs for installation, after the RUU_signed.nbh has been flashed to the phone.

My initial thought was to integrate *.cab into the RUU_signed.nbh and so upon first boot, TierAutoinstall would fire up and allow any user who flashed the rom, to select their custom options ... all of this, driven by a single RUU_signed.nbh and all of this done by a user who did not have to use any Kitchen (BuildOS, etc.).

The immediately obvious down side(s) to the approach I hinted at are: (a) the RUU_signed.nbh would be HUGE and (b) the RUU_signed.nbh would need to be re-created by the project author, as soon as any one of the included *.cab files had been updated.

In the approach he is describing, I think Soul_Est is approaching this from a utility perspective, where web-sites that have *.cab files available (a cab_catalog.xml ?) are polled at some point (post hard-reset) and at that point, the installation manager (utility) facilitates the real-time selection of cabs (by the user) for installation. The cabs are then retrieved (over-the-air ?) and installed.

The idea you presented, rstoyguy, certainly has merit, but it sounds as if it would still require BuildOS and/or a Kitchen and I think part of the rationale behind this project is providing an option to those who may be intimidated by the whole idea of using BuildOS or a Kitchen.

Best regards,
-boggsie

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

You'll have to be very specific on how to do this. You could:

1. Have users download a compressed kitchen with a clean build. Add their cab files to "empty OEM" I have attached. Copy to ..\kitchen\oem (so it gets cooked into the kitchen) Have them run BuildOs.exe, then BuildIt.bat, then flash

2. Have users add their cab files to an "empty oem", copy to the ppckitchen USER_OEM. Then they must select TierAutoInstall and the "User_TierAutoInstall_Cabs" then build their rom.

This was users can take a clean rom, have their cabs they want, all with minimal size. Each cab would be uninstallable, they could run TAutoInstall.exe anytime to test, etc... I could easily help with the either option. The user would have to be told not to mess with anything else or be properly schooled briefly...

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

You've made a very good point and I must say that both implementations of having the cabs cooked into the ROM are very well thought out. I also took a look at the file you attached and I like both the options you presented to tell you the truth. I would like your help in building option 2 as I'll still be working on the original idea of having the ROM be unlinked to the desktop in anyway should the user not be near one and would would like to install their favourite program without using any browser or computer.

Thing is I wanted to find a way for the phone to be self sufficient should the user not have their computer around but still not have a large OS with all their cabs sitting on the phone but taking up the space needed for other things they may need to store there. I was hoping to stick with to 'The Arch Way' when putting this first barebone ROM together. Option 2 will definitely come handy for a separate version I'll be building. One version will depend soley on the user for the extra programs and drivers they want should they want the newest version, hence the repository idea. Another version will have slightly older packages contained in the ROM.

I'll have to test this for myself but hopefully the OEM containing user specific cabs can be deleted when the user no longer requires them. If you've got the results of such a test please reply as I believe a few others would like to know that it can be done.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

I haven't followed this thread from the beginning and I may be overlooking some comments, so apologies in advance.

The dedicated ROM space is never user-accessible after the flash though. You can load as many files as you can fit into the ROM without affecting available storage space to the end user of the ROM (as long as they are stored in /windows I believe). Not sure what the limit is, but from personal experience I'd guess somewhere a little over 100MB on the Titan and Vogue. I've had nbh's that were around that level. I've built a few that were too large and I had to remove the Skype OEM I created (that one alone was like 6-7MB!).

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

Thanks for the quick reply on this latest development. I now know just how large the USER_OEM can be made before the available space is used up. This will help a lot. Thanks again.

-Best regards,
Soul_Est

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

Remember too, that when an oem is cooked into a rom, it is uncompressed and (close to) EVERYTHING from the OEM's resides in the \windows directory. At least a cab is compressed, and while it too will reside permanently in \windows, the user will have no problem unistalling the program, adding skins, etc. And because they are .cabs, they may actually save space as long as they don't want every .cab out there in their rom....Depending on their cabs added, it should be about the same size, and definately not as cluttered.
I was also playing with tierautoinstall briefly before I came into work, it will find cabs in the root directory of \windows and \storage card. So if a user didn't mind a cluttered \storage card, you would not have to cook them into the rom. So, if you provide a clean fast rom, users can still customize by placing their cabs on their storagecard and using tierautoinstall as long as it is cooked into the clean rom.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

fyi: TierAutoinstall will find all cab files:

a) referenced in the config.txt as well as cabs found in
b) \Windows,
c) \Storage Card\Boot,
d) \Storage Card,
e) \Extended_ROM, and
d) \Extended_ROM2

I only mention this, because a cluttered "\Storage Card" isn't really as much of a concern, because you can put them into the "\Storage Card\Boot" path, too.

Best regards,
-boggsie

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

Thanks, I never could find that config.txt this morning. But that looks like the answer right there. I use UserCustomization and all my cabs are in \storage card\cabs\newload so it would work the same. I've never used or seen tierautoinstall until this morning. Thanks again!

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

=D> You all are amazing. I would never have continued this project if it weren't for you and all the ideas you all put forth.

I just finished testing out the newest build of the RL (no2chem 19209 based), and I believe I found a way of not only updating the programs on our Vogues but the OS as well. I checked almost every program in the nueTools range and thus far, three programs really stand as the standard for this 'Developer's ROM': 1) nuePackageDiagnostics (look deep into every OEM package installed in the OS), 2) nuePackageInstaller (install OEM packages directly from inside zipped OEMs), and 3) nueUpdate (like AppToDate but for updating the phone's ROM). I'll need to build one last ROM with all the registry settings and needed programs. Then I can play around with AppToDate, and nueUpdate and figure out a way to get all four to work in perfect harmony. I can't wait for summer...

-Best regards,
Soul_Est

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

wow this is definitely looking exciting...cant wait for the test rom!

sorry i dont have a lot to contribute.../any :S

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

I've got good news and bad news:
Good news: I've gotten USB Mass storage to work via WM5torage. OEMs of Opera Mobile 9.5 Builds 331, 405 and 781 will be ready for next week.
Bad news: I'll have to wait until next weekend to release the RL to the community.

Re: I would like your input on this...
 

What I would like to see is a bare naked ROM (such as JD's clean ROM) with UC 2.0.

THAT! My friend would be awesome! Giving power to the people!