Originally Posted by Noir (Post 1004340)

for one thing, what the company considers a restriction for offering for a service (ie tethering) I don't really consider that a gimp. Especially when you consider the xv6800. Prior to even the new radio 3.35 and 3.42, both the xv6800 and the xv6900 (on even sprint as well) did not offer gps on the device and prior to last summer/spring while we knew that it was capable it wasn't unlocked. Now this begs to question was this the result of htc and the specific phone vendors? Tough to say...

But the capability in both of your instances wasn't removed. It was locked and that is carrier specific. Not necessarily a gimp considering you arguing that it is a removal of capabilities on either a software/hardware specific. It wasn't removed, it was locked and in my eyes that is a totally different bag of tea.

While verizon chose to lock those capabilities for a fee, it was a business decision to be frank because not all consumers are power users that will hack slash, tweak modify their devices. They want now and so far with the exception of winmo users (as well as mobile-file users) it has benefitted verizon economically. So the strategy in those locks so to speak were financial. But it didn't mean it was removed from the device (gimp) because if that was the case

it wouldn't necessarily be there to begin with (much like ram on the touch pro/diamond) - it wasn't there but the examples you listed the capability was there, it was just locked down by the phone company and that happens all the time. And it exists with every phone company and most phones as well...so by that logic yes practically every company gimps their devices because

I am using an alltel, verizon, and sprint touch pro and I don't see a front face camera on mine do you? That is something specific for the initial device and it was removed (gimp) based on specifications of the phone company (heck we don't have the tech for video calls).

So again...
can we really say vzw will gimp (hardware restrict whatever) when we have no proof of it happening except touch pro/diamond 1?

Originally Posted by wesscoggin (Post 1004697)

Evidently your definition of the word gimp is completely different than what I consider a gimp. The impetuous for everything at Verizon is economics. What drives all decisions about included or omitted software and hardware is Verizon's opinion on what they can or can't sell for a profit. Whatever you or I identify as a "gimp" doesn't change the fact that the decisions, weather to include or omit certain hardware or add or delete capabilities through software, are all based on the same influences.

I would argue that a software gimp is just as valid as a hardware gimp, if not more maddening because they are just trying to milk the masses out of their money because the masses won't/can't do anything about it. Hardware gimps can be directly linked to production and manufacturing cost based analysis. What costs more about using the capabilities already built into a phone?

I would say that the recent Hardware Gimping is just the natural growth from software gimping, thus defining a pattern. As for proof that they will gimp or not gimp the TP2, all we have is patterns. You are correct in your assertion that the hardware has been the same or comparable up until this generation of PPC, however I would argue it's a pattern that began with software gimping. I would also say that this has been Verizon's attitude about the equipment they sell for a very long time, and is now made worse by the fact that they stopped adding other carrier’s equipment to their network. (another indication that they will continue to consider forcing people to buy their peripheral software and equipment). They do because they can.

Originally Posted by razorloves (Post 1004144)

gps unlocked rom was released a little over 2 weeks ago
http://pcdphones.com/phone_downloads...zon%20Wireless

Originally Posted by helix139 (Post 1004429)

I could care less what they do through software as that can be fixed. As long as the hardware specs are identical I will get one. If not, then see ya Verizon.

Originally Posted by Noir (Post 1004340)

for one thing, what the company considers a restriction for offering for a service (ie tethering) I don't really consider that a gimp. Especially when you consider the xv6800. Prior to even the new radio 3.35 and 3.42, both the xv6800 and the xv6900 (on even sprint as well) did not offer gps on the device and prior to last summer/spring while we knew that it was capable it wasn't unlocked. Now this begs to question was this the result of htc and the specific phone vendors? Tough to say...

But the capability in both of your instances wasn't removed. It was locked and that is carrier specific. Not necessarily a gimp considering you arguing that it is a removal of capabilities on either a software/hardware specific. It wasn't removed, it was locked and in my eyes that is a totally different bag of tea.

While verizon chose to lock those capabilities for a fee, it was a business decision to be frank because not all consumers are power users that will hack slash, tweak modify their devices. They want now and so far with the exception of winmo users (as well as mobile-file users) it has benefitted verizon economically. So the strategy in those locks so to speak were financial. But it didn't mean it was removed from the device (gimp) because if that was the case

it wouldn't necessarily be there to begin with (much like ram on the touch pro/diamond) - it wasn't there but the examples you listed the capability was there, it was just locked down by the phone company and that happens all the time. And it exists with every phone company and most phones as well...so by that logic yes practically every company gimps their devices because

I am using an alltel, verizon, and sprint touch pro and I don't see a front face camera on mine do you? That is something specific for the initial device and it was removed (gimp) based on specifications of the phone company (heck we don't have the tech for video calls).

So again...
can we really say vzw will gimp (hardware restrict whatever) when we have no proof of it happening except touch pro/diamond 1?

Originally Posted by redd214 (Post 1004753)

i have a verizon tp, i cant stand the fact that they "gimped" (whatever your definition is) the touch pro however, first and foremost verizon is a business just as noir stated. i own a business and while i will say that i love the work that we do for people in the community, BUT the main reason i went into business for myself was to make money. as u yourself said thats verizon's main focus as it should be. our community is the minority of phone users, they arent catering to us for the most part.

its obvious that people are paying for these services so coming stricly from a business standpoint why would they stop?? if you ran verizon would u??

like i said coming from a consumer standpoint it sucks, but looking at it thru their perspective it makes perfect sense to me.

just my 2 cents...