Could Windows mobile 7 be for real

[rorytmeadows]

Originally Posted by gcianc

if you use the internet you use a cloud.

99% of smartphone users DO NOT want email/info stored EXCLUSIVELY (ie. locked) on a "single device" rather a server where it can sync any device you're presently using (phone, laptop, pc in transit, home, work for example).

you want to check mail on a phone, delete it and when you get on a PC the email is 100% in sync.

same for calendars, etc.

the clouds is only lacking because of half-baked implementation. (well unless you pay $100 for apple's mobile me or whatever it's called and restrict yourself to apple only yuk).

for example MS has not yet realized the ability to sync your CONTACTS simply from Hotmail to a windows mobile device using "cloud service". Windows Live (wm app) helps remove the no-imap hotmail support (allowing imap-like use) but fails to sync contacts nevermind allow the ease to enter contacts into your "network" to be sync'd.

no ability to sync bookmarks to your phone.

or contacts (well of course you can using google contacts but...).

this is computer 101 level stuff and it's not just MS missing the boat. But that will all change hopefully soon as real phones are released with adequate RAM, faster CPUs and software designed for the "cloud".

ps - any smart phone (or blackberry) sold today pretty much requires a data plan by any major carrier. if you're on "pay as you go" using a smartphone you don't count in their stats and are a loss-leader to the carriers

I use Wifi and the phone itself more than I se the internet

[gcianc]

Originally Posted by rorytmeadows

I use Wifi and the phone itself more than I se the internet

more being the key word.

for $1/day you'd want to forgo internet (data plan) but pay $300 more upfront for your TP2? cause that's what it would take.

or even worse pay $1.99 per MB of data to sync contacts, etc.

come on... heavy/exclusive wifi use is really atypical and certainly not a desirable customer to major carriers. They don't need to subsidize (ie. eat $300+ phone charge) for you to stream media/TV all day on a wifi enabled smartphone (or use skype, etc.). This is simply business 101 and also supply and demand (enough demand & new customers to let you walk)

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gcianc

if you use the internet you use a cloud.

99% of smartphone users DO NOT want email/info stored EXCLUSIVELY (ie. locked) on a "single device" rather a server where it can sync any device you're presently using (phone, laptop, pc in transit, home, work for example).

you want to check mail on a phone, delete it and when you get on a PC the email is 100% in sync.

same for calendars, etc.

the clouds is only lacking because of half-baked implementation. (well unless you pay $100 for apple's mobile me or whatever it's called and restrict yourself to apple only yuk).

for example MS has not yet realized the ability to sync your CONTACTS simply from Hotmail to a windows mobile device using "cloud service". Windows Live (wm app) helps remove the no-imap hotmail support (allowing imap-like use) but fails to sync contacts nevermind allow the ease to enter contacts into your "network" to be sync'd.

no ability to sync bookmarks to your phone.

or contacts (well of course you can using google contacts but...).

this is computer 101 level stuff and it's not just MS missing the boat. But that will all change hopefully soon as real phones are released with adequate RAM, faster CPUs and software designed for the "cloud".

ps - any smart phone (or blackberry) sold today pretty much requires a data plan by any major carrier. if you're on "pay as you go" using a smartphone you don't count in their stats and are a loss-leader to the carriers

You're wrong. Windows Live DOES sync your contacts, and Microsoft's MyPhone syncs your contacts, calendar, tasks, and yes- your internet bookmarks too.

And I hate being forced to use a cloud. Yes, I like to use the cloud for email and stuff like that. But I don't want to be forced into it. If I decide to use a pop3 email and have everyting stored on my device, I want to have that option.

See what happened to Sidekick users for the dangers of a cloud based service. They were without their calendar, even without their contacts- just because they lost access to the server. No thank you. I'll keep my stuff on the device, thank you very much.

When my devices get old and replaced, they live on as dedicated mini computers. Some make it to the car as GPS units. Others make it to various room in the house connected to stereos as a means to stream music from my home server. My next batch of new phones will retire my Touch Pro 2's to my weight room- as a means to stream music/video/ifit files from my home server, and access the workout spreadsheet. It's nice to run apps without having a data connection and a subscription to some service.

[gcianc]

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg

You're wrong. Windows Live DOES sync your contacts, and

Microsoft's MyPhone syncs your contacts, calendar, tasks, and yes- your internet bookmarks too.

sorry but WindowsLive syncs only contacts in "my network" which requires verification/invites to get a contact into. Terrible idea.

MyPhone is a BACKUP service.

Both half-baked implimentations that NEED correction & more for 7 to be a success.

[Paragon]

Originally Posted by gcianc

if you use the internet you use a cloud.

99% of smartphone users DO NOT want email/info stored EXCLUSIVELY (ie. locked) on a "single device" rather a server where it can sync any device you're presently using (phone, laptop, pc in transit, home, work for example).

Whoooa dude. You are way off on this. First, the 99% number you mentioned is nothing more then a number you invented, not based on fact in any way. Your vision of cloud computing is way off when you compare it to email only. Furthermore there is a great difference in not wanting email on a single device, and having reside solely in a cloud.

There are some real cultural type changes that we have to accept before the masses are going to be willing to fully embrace the "cloud"

Dave

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gcianc

sorry but WindowsLive syncs only contacts in "my network" which requires verification/invites to get a contact into. Terrible idea.

MyPhone is a BACKUP service.

Both half-baked implimentations that NEED correction & more for 7 to be a success.

#1: You're wrong man. Windows Live syncs whatever contacts you have in your hotmail address book. No invite needed. it syncs yoru contacts, period. Maybe you haven't used the app, or maybe you don't have a hotmail. I don't know why you wouldn't know this, but it's true- Windows Live DOES sync your contacts if you choose to allow it.

#2: MyPhone backs up- yes, and it also syncs. Don't believe me? Delete something off the website and see if it disappears off your device the next time it "syncs." Let me advise you in advance to back it up somewhere else, because I can promise you it will be gone from your device. So therefore it is not only backing up, but also syncing.

[gcianc]

I think the definition of "cloud" is creating some miscommunication here. Cloud is not all or none. If you think "cultural" changes are required to allow people to use cloud then you are totally mistaken or have a very different use of the term "cloud" as what it really means to mass-market and phones. Let me explain...

First off, I'm not talking about "cloud" as abandoning traditional PCs & hard drives or having terminals only with all of your personal (and corporate) data in "clouds" managed by an anonymous party. That is fantasy land nowhere close to reality. There is obviously a need now & in the future for local data (and local apps) as well as "cloud" data (as well as web/cloud apps). The need for both will remain distinct for years to come, even if you had worldwide 5G unlimited bandwidth devices.

Cloud data - so to speak - CAN/NEEDS TO BE AVAILABLE LOCALLY. For example your google calendar (in a cloud) sync'd to outlook mobile. The cloud complaints fail to realize this or think it will be a non-option one day. BTW it's also why google docs has an "offline mode".

People have been using "clouds" since ftp and made mass-market by webmail which of course was introduced many years ago. Of course you know of the services like Microsoft Office "cloud", nevermind the huge success of google docs, photoshop online, etc. You might not see that as a "cloud" but it sure is!

Unfortunately MS is just a few years late and not implementing cloud integration which is absolutely necessary and expected for mass market devices (ie. smartphones in 2010+).

People want to gain access to commonly used info wherever they are on all devices. Clouds allow that (even though it's confusing and essentially should be invisible to the customer). Mobile phone bandwidth limits cloud & sync presently to things like calendar, contacts, bookmarks, notes/memos, etc. Even streaming music or media from a "cloud" is not reasonable and will be excessive bandwidth.

Originally Posted by Paragon

Whoooa dude. You are way off on this. First, the 99% number you mentioned is nothing more then a number you invented, not based on fact in any way. Your vision of cloud computing is way off when you compare it to email only. Furthermore there is a great difference in not wanting email on a single device, and having reside solely in a cloud.

There are some real cultural type changes that we have to accept before the masses are going to be willing to fully embrace the "cloud"

Dave

[gcianc]

I'd love to be wrong.... of course i have both the WL mobile app and hotmail accounts

go to hotmail contacts (shared with windows live contacts as you know)
http://people.live.com/?rru=contacts

now add a contact or business phone# without email (ie. local restaurant). They need to be emailed or invited to get into "network".

only those in "network" get sync'd in Windows Live (latest version wm6.5).

The fact that you can't force someone in "network" by simpy adding them to contact list without the invite is absurd.

Yes MyPhone syncs but it's totally clumsy and half-baked.

Originally Posted by SaltyDawg

#1: You're wrong man. Windows Live syncs whatever contacts you have in your hotmail address book. No invite needed. it syncs your contacts, period. Maybe you haven't used the app, or maybe you don't have a hotmail. I don't know why you wouldn't know this, but it's true- Windows Live DOES sync your contacts if you choose to allow it.

#2: MyPhone backs up- yes, and it also syncs. Don't believe me? Delete something off the website and see if it disappears off your device the next time it "syncs." Let me advise you in advance to back it up somewhere else, because I can promise you it will be gone from your device. So therefore it is not only backing up, but also syncing.

[Paragon]

You are still talking about cloud computing as it relates to email. Yes, we all want a cental "cloud" for access to email from anywhere, but future cloud computing goes much further.

Dave

[BlackDynamite]

Originally Posted by gcianc

I'd love to be wrong.... of course i have both the WL mobile app and hotmail accounts

go to hotmail contacts (shared with windows live contacts as you know)
http://people.live.com/?rru=contacts

now add a contact or business phone# without email (ie. local restaurant). They need to be emailed or invited to get into "network".

only those in "network" get sync'd in Windows Live (latest version wm6.5).

The fact that you can't force someone in "network" by simpy adding them to contact list without the invite is absurd.

Yes MyPhone syncs but it's totally clumsy and half-baked.

You are wrong man, lol. Yes, I know that someone has to be notified before they can be in your network. But they don't have to be in your network to be in your contact list. And it's not only network contacts that get synced. All of my hotmail contacts get synced. There may be some sort of option in hotmail to only sync network contacts or something, I don't know. But I do know that all of my hotmail contacts sync when I sync them, and not all of my contacts are in my network.

You may think MyPhone is clumsy and half baked, but that is only your opinion. The fact is, it DOES sync, and you claimed it did not, and then tried to argue the matter when I pointed out that yes it does. My only real beef with MyPhone is the storage limit. Sure, there are a couple of things that could be done better (manually select folders instead of only selecting file types) but all in all it's pretty good. If you only sync contacts, calendar, and tasks (as I do) then it's pretty awesome.