GPS GPS GPS!

[Touch999]

I heard thru the grape vines that gps is unlockable if you think hard enough and "Poof!". Gps baby!

I learned not to pay any attention to rumor dates on antthing sprint says. Just enjoy the phone.

[markppc6700]

Originally Posted by Touch999

I heard thru the grape vines that gps is unlockable if you think hard enough and "Poof!". Gps baby!

I learned not to pay any attention to rumor dates on antthing sprint says. Just enjoy the phone.

i've been going at it all week since i've seen it with my own two eyes and heard from htc themselves that its on there , hate people that jump up and say agps when they have no more evidence than you do

[shadowmite]

ok, www.shadowmite.com/temp/6800-ant1.jpg
Here's what the fcc pic looks like:
www.shadowmite.com/temp/real-ant.jpg

That's what sprint folks have at least, others please take your own pics to compare if you like. Now on the fcc docs, https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/f...ive_or_pdf=pdf
at page 11 you can see the massive traces which make up the antenna, ours is trivial and has no actual antenna in it. Furthermore, that massive blotch of copper seems to be shorting it, potentially they put this in INSTEAD of the proper gps antenna is my guess. Give me a little more time to see if there is anything on the other side just not visable through that white plastic...

[shadowmite]

Well, here's my opinion, they type certified it as a GPS capable device. They then REMOVED the real antenna (conspiracy theories?) and replaced it with a shorting loop which is almost a exact match. It's held on by 2 screws, same mount as the real one in that pic. So it's potentially possible to replace with the real part if we can order them, or for that matter, we have the fcc pic, we could duplicate the part ourselves and replace it!

Here's the catch, we need the radio image at minimum from that fcc model, or a real gps enabled model. I would encourage others with verizon, alltel etc to take pics of this part and post if it's any different. They wouldn't type certify it unless they are selling it to someone... Perhaps a korean model!?

EDIT: I've removed the antenna blank from my phone and verified, it is nothing more than a blank, furthermore, we are missing a part of the LNA circuit as pictured at the fcc link:
www.shadowmite.com/temp/ant-missing.jpg

[APOLAUF]

Shadowmite, your picture entitled "6800-ant1.jpg", with the white part, that is what our phones actually have, correct? I completely see what you're saying by something "missing", i.e. a longish trace that goes around the similar part. However, the thing pictured in 6800-ant1.jpg, doesn't that correspond to a "Patch Antenna", that many many stand-alone GPS devices have? It looks awfully similar to the antenna found in my Garmin eTrex Legend. A quick Wiki reference pulls up this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_antenna

Maybe I'm wrong, but the fact is, it's still something. Malatesta, as you have indicated the Kaiser's gpsOne device is the same that we have - the MSM7200 is nothing more than an MSM7500 with a GSM radio and associated tx/rx infrastructure.

I have heard arguments about frequency-modulating the Wifi/BT antenna or even the radio antennas, though I don't know quite exactly how that would accomplish anything reliably - though I freely admit that my background is in digital systems and embedded software, not signals.

I guess my bottom line is this: I choose to believe that we have a hardware GPS capability in the phone, and I believe we have the antenna for it. Patch, or "frequency modulated", whatever it may be, I think we have it. I'm hopeful that we can finally have some peace about this, and that I won't have to carry around my Holux M1000 (the free pouch that came with it is a lifesaver. )... though I suspect that the high-sensitivity SiRF-III receiver on the Holux might beat the crap out of the Mogul's receiver. Either way, let's just hope for the best!

[jfolliard]

God! I love you techie guys! I have a new Mogul - haven't a clue what you're talking about - actually I might have a little 'cause I'm a old/new geek - bought my first Apple clone PC - a Franklin for $3K about 18-20 years ago - I'm one of those guys the IT folks hate - give me a button and I'll push it!

Anyway - keep up the great dialogue - All know is that I have a new 6800 and I'm just waiting for some one to tell me to push this button, flash this ROM, say the hokey-pokey and I get GPS!

BTW - I'm one of the first to to get the new ROM last night - works great. Again, give me a beta or even an alpha and I'm there - although I've probably led the world re-formatting my computers/smartphones!

Seriously, us "level minus 3" guys really do appreciate what all of you are doing even though it's Greek to us - you know, maybe not pure Greek - enough that I undertand the concepts, and enough to make me dangerous with a device/computer.

Thanks.

Jack

[shadowmite]

Originally Posted by APOLAUF

Shadowmite, your picture entitled "6800-ant1.jpg", with the white part, that is what our phones actually have, correct? I completely see what you're saying by something "missing", i.e. a longish trace that goes around the similar part. However, the thing pictured in 6800-ant1.jpg, doesn't that correspond to a "Patch Antenna", that many many stand-alone GPS devices have? It looks awfully similar to the antenna found in my Garmin eTrex Legend. A quick Wiki reference pulls up this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_antenna

Maybe I'm wrong, but the fact is, it's still something. Malatesta, as you have indicated the Kaiser's gpsOne device is the same that we have - the MSM7200 is nothing more than an MSM7500 with a GSM radio and associated tx/rx infrastructure.

I have heard arguments about frequency-modulating the Wifi/BT antenna or even the radio antennas, though I don't know quite exactly how that would accomplish anything reliably - though I freely admit that my background is in digital systems and embedded software, not signals.

I guess my bottom line is this: I choose to believe that we have a hardware GPS capability in the phone, and I believe we have the antenna for it. Patch, or "frequency modulated", whatever it may be, I think we have it. I'm hopeful that we can finally have some peace about this, and that I won't have to carry around my Holux M1000 (the free pouch that came with it is a lifesaver. )... though I suspect that the high-sensitivity SiRF-III receiver on the Holux might beat the crap out of the Mogul's receiver. Either way, let's just hope for the best!

Yep, you are correct, that's the pic the sprint 6800 at least has. And I believe you're also correct it's possible that it's a patch antenna. Hmm, I really can't say at this point, but what about the missing part (I believe a diode)? I think we'll have to wait and see if anything is activated by sprint here. But I will start to reverse the radio code and see if I can find anything that leads me to believe there is a gps mode to enable. With a patch here and there we can supercid the radio and be able to send any AT commands we want (including the gps fix request to test this).

[Malatesta]

Fascinating stuff APOLAUF & Shadowmite...

That patch antenna stuff is interesting. My feeling is they will enable a fully functioning GPS. How that happens and how it works, I have no idea. Though as pointed above, this is fun stuff.

Too bad though someone from HTC couldn't just explain it--I'm not sure why they keep this stuff so secretive, especially when places like XDA and ppcgeeks literally thrive on it...

Oh well...back to speculating and in Shadow's case, actual testing.

[APOLAUF]

Originally Posted by Malatesta

Too bad though someone from HTC couldn't just explain it--I'm not sure why they keep this stuff so secretive, especially when places like XDA and ppcgeeks literally thrive on it...

I'm seriously hoping that Android will end this sort of secrecy - and even if it doesn't, maybe it'll prod manufacturers into being more open - we'd all win!

Good luck, Shadowmite, maybe if you can find something, your findings can help us fix GPS so that it works properly... I'm sure that Sprint/HTC will enable it, but how well it works is another question - the Tilt's GPS doesn't work as advertised either. Most apps time out before the internal GPS has initialized for some reason, requiring people to run two apps before getting one functional GPS app - according to what a friend of mine with the international version of the Kaiser has told me.

[TC1]

Originally Posted by APOLAUF

the Tilt's GPS doesn't work as advertised either. Most apps time out before the internal GPS has initialized for some reason, requiring people to run two apps before getting one functional GPS app - according to what a friend of mine with the international version of the Kaiser has told me.

I've heard similar stories to this (not specific to the Kaiser) from developers writing LBS apps for internal GPS on the WM6 platform. Supposedly the WM6 GPS API is flawed, and doesn't always return (if at all) the expected response when called from other programs.

Here is one such public discussion on the issue:
http://groups.google.com/group/micro...60a06eab09bdf5